Cintiq 24 HD Touch support

[patternmaker]

I'm considering getting one of these, http://www.wacom.com/en/Products/Cintiq/Cintiq24touch.aspx but probably only if 3DCoat is planning to add support for the gesture feature. I would want to be able to use that instead of my usual spaceball. Should I expect support for it to be months away or years away, or what? It looks like only Corel Painter 12 actually supports it right now.

[Sandro Borg]

I am also seriously considering getting one of these very soon,

but it would very much depend on whether 3DCoat supports it.

I found this video that shows it being used with Mudbox.

It would be awesome if we could have this kind of interaction with 3DCoat.

I know Andrew is busy,but is this something that's possible or planned for the future?

[BeatKitano]

You can't touch and use the pen at once. Until we can do that you're better of with the regular version. Pen clicking is very precise/instinctive and quick with the 24hd (I've one at work and at home) so the touch functions are actually a setback because your fingers are much bigger (and thus create more issue with small ui items) and you still have to lift the pen off the tablet. Almost null gain here.

[Sandro Borg]

Thanks Beatkitano for your feedback,I hadn't thought of that. But I don't know if it would make that much difference to me.

I also use a 3dconnexion device,so if I wanted to rotate/move the object while I sculpted ,surely I can use it for that function.

Watching the Mudbox/Wacom Touch demo, I would be happy if that level of interaction was available to 3DCoat.

[patternmaker]

Great to get some responses to this! Thanks! I'm wondering, BeatKitano, if you use a 3dconnexion device, and if so, where you put it when you use the 24HD. That was probably my main concern and reason for wanting the 24HD touch. I'm used to working with a Wacom Intuos tablet and a spaceball, but both are on the desk at the same level. The 24 HD moves your working surface to a very different position, especially if it is used flat. Seems like the spaceball could be hard to reach, or at least different enough in position to require retraining your hand to use it well.

Regarding implementing support for the Touch, it looks like even Autodesk hasn't decided it is a high enough priority for Mudbox or Sketchbook yet. These are so expensive that I would expect relatively very few will get sold, so am I right that it could be a very long time before we could expect 3D Coat to support this?

[BeatKitano]

I've a space pilo pro, but to be honest after a while I got back to keyboard, not enough supported app to warrant another device on my desktop (or more exactly I'm so used to the maya navigation scheme with alt, it's very hard to use another device and then this is really useful only in sculpt apps as you still need to use your mouse+keyboard to model quickly in modelers).

It's one of so many devices I tested over the years for better workflows, like I said in other threads, nothing beats a keyboard for choice and quick access even if some devices are actually more natural to use.

When I used it tough it was on a side desktop, my desk is a "U" shape, I got space in front of me (screens on mobile arms) and the 24 hd at about 20/30° (adjustable stand) before me touching my belly, and the space pilot was at my left side desk, keyboard under the cintiq (drawer), and mouse at the right side of the desk.

In that configuration it's pretty nice but the 24 hd is so huge if you don't have much space you'll need to move your keyboard slightly to the left on your drawer to give space to your mouse (because believe it or not a mouse is still nice for some very precise ops which aren't easily feasible due to thr natural hand shaking ^^) which makes it very unconfortable for typing. I tried before buying the custom "U" more ergonomical desk.

[patternmaker]

Thanks for the quick response! I will probably get the "older" 24HD and take my chances on regretting that decision in a few years if the touch version gets fully supported. I recently got a GeekDesk and have been working standing most of the time. Much better for my back. I'm expecting to use the cintiq in a nearly flat position with the table kind of low. Might need to make some extra platforms for keyboard, mouse, and spaceball. I can't picture working without a spaceball, though like you are doing. I think it at least doubles my efficiency because of how quickly I can orient my model. Hoping the 24HD will have a similar efficiency boosting effect by giving me better hand control. In your experience is touching the pen right on the model instead of on a tablet like an Intuos much more efficient? I'm also hoping it will allow me to sculpt and draw with smoother movements because of the larger surface and being able to see where my hand is and use natural arm motions. Is this true in your experience?

I use Sketchbook Pro a lot for presenting concepts and am hoping I can actually use plastic french curves and straight edges right on the 24HD to guide the pen. Maybe even use them sometimes in 3D Coat to sculpt features that follow a curve more smoothly (?) Will that work like I'm hoping?

[BeatKitano]

I honestly don't think you'll regret getting the simple 24hd. I don't really think touch support will be useful and largely supported by apps soon. At least not until pen detection and touch gestures at the same time are real. Anyway if it were to happen, you could still sell your old 24hd a hefty price cause those things loose their value very slowly, and buy the new one.

Now I've to warn you, I got early production models at work and at home (batch order from the company I work for) and maybe it's better on the next production series but I got deffective models: screen didn't turn on sometimes (display works for 1/2 sec and goes black) I had to reboot the tablet a lot of time (I mean A LOT, it's a known issue to wacom in power supply as our stock manager told me after phone discussions with wacom rep sales).

It's now fixed (exchange) but that tells me that newer wacom tablets are much less durable than they were a few years back (it started getting down after intuos 4).

Working on the 24hd is much more natural, I can't say you'll be more productive as some people at work actually prefer to use a regular tablet, but it's DIFFERENT. When I ran first tests at work on the device it was like I was really manipulating my clay (using a software much like 3dcoat). You have another "relationship" with your subject, I'm more precise in my strokes and bolder in my choices. I like it better but it's really something subjective.

As for the spaceball: well mileage may vary but yes you gain time with navigation control but you still lose time switching between profiles/cfg for large arrays of shortcuts, a keyboard doesn't, with habits acquired over the years (hello maya 5 ^^) you can switch between tools and navigation keys very quickly

You can probably use rulers and such on the tablet, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work (and with touch it would probably get in the way btw !) but be careful though: I don't know how much the screen surface would like that, I've not really seen wear and tear on it but you never know with time. Intuos 4 are notorious for having terrible plastic sheets that get scratches pretty quickly.

[patternmaker]

Lots of great info, thanks! Wacom probably won't like this, but I think it makes more sense for my purposes to get the regular 24HD based on your experience and thoughts. I'll most likely order one next week.

[Adriaantaylor]

Of course with these you can always turn touch off when your not needing it. Best of both worlds. Even with the wacom tablet version i turn on and off touch as needed with a hot key button.  

[Routb3d]

I would love to see 3D coat get touch navigation support. I use tablets exclusively and have totally ditched the keyboard. Moment of inspiration V3 Beta (MOI) has excellent multitouch navigation for those interested in seeing what 3DCoat could be like.. Simultaneous pen and touch input would be nice but most current consumer level hardware is all set for 1 import or the other which has never been problem for me. I'm excited for the day when 3D Coat gets touch navigation.

 

Isaiah