Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 29, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I would love to be a full time beta tester for 3DCoat, but financially I need to put food on the table, so I have to work, therefore time is very precious for me, wasting hours of creating time because of bugs in an application is not an option. Maya, Softimage, ZBrush and others do have bugs, but they are minor and don't cause you to loose significant amounts of time when they occur, so they are acceptable. That's why you should use only the official stable releases, then. If you are using Beta builds in ANY software, you should already understand that it's a big no-no, trying to use it on production work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psmith Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 It's perfectly O.K. to list your problems and bugs on these forums. I produce a list of these for Andrew to look at every week. So, if it is more convenient to post them in the forum, by all means do this. We do need your system specs, version number of the software and at least an outline of the steps you used to encounter any particular problem - in order to really troubleshoot efficiently. Greg Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member pixo Posted October 29, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Yep...everyone who downloads the Beta builds is a tester, essentially. This is right and this is hopefully already the case . A lot of peoples already reported bugs and continue to report them(i see you Digman ). Andrew corrected a lot of mines and i know he corrected a lot that have been reported. We should stop with this debate, cause it's a "deja vu" debate.Let debug 3DC. I would like to say that i'm satisfied ,I was working on my unfinished models and the AUTORETOPO save to my life from a day of work .I had 100 objects to retopo, and AUTORETOPO did it in 1 minutes. I just clean the result in 5 mins, and it was done. I'm really happy with 3DCoat ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member David Schoneveld Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Tser you're having THAT bad of issues losing lots of work? I'm not experiencing this at all. I get annoyed some tools are buggy in that they are missing some polish or smooth functioning, but the bugs to me don't cause loss of work. Also I save pretty often. That said when anything crashes I "AAAWWWWWWWWGGGHH!!" ahahah like anyone but my perception of 3D Coat isn't that of super buggy. When you have a major bug do you report it? Does it get addressed? Do you think bug reporting is too much effort and time? (I sometimes just suffer through bugs out of laziness to report them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Is the plan to have a full polymodeller in 3dcoat still on for v4? Reason I say this is because there's too much emphasis on sculpting in 3dcoat. Its not going to sway majority of zbrush users away from their fav app. 3dcoat needs to be more well rounded as an asset creation tool. Painting is a bit slow in 3dcoat but if the same focus to painting was made like sculpting, it would improve a lot. The recent buyout of modo by Foundry just seems like it would someday be a direct competitor of 3dcoat. Modo already has painting and retopo. They're not up to 3dcoat standards yet but it will be plus the fact that modo is a almost a complete app makes it good value for money. So again 3dcoat needs to improve in all its areas not just focus on sculpting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 David, yes, sometimes and no. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 full polymodeler can change all the market panorama, its true... but first i prefer to see more vertices/edges-loops/faces manipulation/selection when work in Sculpt mode... And to add a polygroup option linked to UV islands... isolate groups, subdivide, etcetc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Is the plan to have a full polymodeller in 3dcoat still on for v4? Reason I say this is because there's too much emphasis on sculpting in 3dcoat. Its not going to sway majority of zbrush users away from their fav app. 3dcoat needs to be more well rounded as an asset creation tool. Painting is a bit slow in 3dcoat but if the same focus to painting was made like sculpting, it would improve a lot. The recent buyout of modo by Foundry just seems like it would someday be a direct competitor of 3dcoat. Modo already has painting and retopo. They're not up to 3dcoat standards yet but it will be plus the fact that modo is a almost a complete app makes it good value for money. So again 3dcoat needs to improve in all its areas not just focus on sculpting. I really hope the focus turns more to performance and stability/refining instead of trying to make an already great retopology toolset something it is not designed for.(full blown poly modeler). The focus on sculpting is probably because a majority of the userbase uses it, and with Voxels being introduced back in V3, it became a cornerstone of the application. I agree about the paint room needing some attention, but primarily in terms of improving raw performance. It's pretty fast up to a certain point and then it begins to drop dramatically. Been trying for the longest to get Andrew to put CUDA or the GPU in general, to work in the paint room (all brushing and deforming operations in the app).Been ignored in that regard, but it seems to me, this is the one thing every single user can benefit from...all day, every day. And something that will help take 3D Coat to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Most of the poly modeling tools are already in place I feel like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Agree on performance and stability/refining. I posted a few pages to stop new features like nodes in 3dcoat. They weren't really planned and benefit for a sculpting and painting app seems minimal. Even modo doesn't implement all node architecture. But modo is on the right track to become a strong content creation app. Polymodeller, sculpting, painting, retopo, have one in everyhome. That's the way I see modo soon. On Cuda regard. Many people are still using ATI cards, even though they always have issues, stubborn people. ATI doesn't support cuda and probably never will. So Andrew will be optimizing for only people that use cuda which is not so good. Most of the poly tools are already good in 3dcoat? I haven't checked them but can I box model a car from scratch? Is it possible? I'm not expecting spline modelling but just a good polymodelling app. That would remove some need to import export models when correcting them. Basically everything exported out of 3dcoat will be final and no need to edit in external app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member bisenberger Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Is the plan to have a full polymodeller in 3dcoat still on for v4? Reason I say this is because there's too much emphasis on sculpting in 3dcoat. Its not going to sway majority of zbrush users away from their fav app. 3dcoat needs to be more well rounded as an asset creation tool. Painting is a bit slow in 3dcoat but if the same focus to painting was made like sculpting, it would improve a lot. The recent buyout of modo by Foundry just seems like it would someday be a direct competitor of 3dcoat. Modo already has painting and retopo. They're not up to 3dcoat standards yet but it will be plus the fact that modo is a almost a complete app makes it good value for money. So again 3dcoat needs to improve in all its areas not just focus on sculpting. I don't think Foundary's modo will ever be a direct competitor to 3D Coat, mainly because of the pricing difference. I fear that gap will only increase since modo now belongs to Foundary. On the other hand, if at some point the renderer in 3D Coat becomes more robust, look out modo . As far as crashes, I'm not experiencing an unreasonable number (certainly not enough for me to quit using 3DC). My OS is Windows 7 Pro 64bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Concerning bug reports since all the "New" version 3 reports some as old as Oct, 2010 got moved over to the version 4 section, this creates a problem of undue clutter, Can this be cleaned up... The version 4 section was very clean with only bug reports concerning that version was there. Yes I know that some of version 3 bugs are still in version 4 but to move reports from "New" 2010 is hardly necessary. Andrew does not change the status of the "New" reports, He just moves them to the resolved section when he fixes a bug. As I stated earlier, some of those old, old reports have been fixed in the course of development but never move to resolved. Yes, there is some filtering we can do but I can not filter out version 3 bugs as now they all are version 4 bugs since they were moved to the version 4 section. This is not meant to be critical of the intent to help but just that is the effect it has on a clean bug reporting section for version 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I don't think Foundary's modo will ever be a direct competitor to 3D Coat, mainly because of the pricing difference. I fear that gap will only increase since modo now belongs to Foundary. On the other hand, if at some point the renderer in 3D Coat becomes more robust, look out modo . As far as crashes, I'm not experiencing an unreasonable number (certainly not enough for me to quit using 3DC). My OS is Windows 7 Pro 64bit. I've been thinking that an Octane Render plugin for 3D Coat would make 3D Coat look much more appealing. Maybe Andrew can work out some form of license agreement with them, to integrate it as it's own built-in renderer. Would be great to re-work all the shaders to work straight away in the renderer (meaning you can apply shaders to a Model texture painted in the Paint Room), including an SSS shader, I was testing the demo of their 3ds Max plugin...and it was really sweet. I'd pay extra for that, if that's what it took. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 well... is NOT clear for the new forum users how submit a bug using mantis. And is not clear that Andrew use mantis like bug reporter over the forum. So the new user only see and use a SUPPORT sub forum and no mantis. - i suggest to add a sticky in every support subforum telling about mantis. Do you know Mantis ? 3DC Bug report site And... If support forum is not used anymore why not delete it ? ---------------------- register at forum, register at mantis... could mantis be added to 3dcoat.com and to use the same forum user login ? ---------------------- Andrew use Twitter to log his work https://twitter.com/AndrewShpagin Its possible to add in this site a link to Twitter like blog or any way ? ---------------------- Everywhere we find the same paradigm, many ways to get to the necessary but only one is important. Software tools, support information, tutorials and manual. Discard the redundant and unify necessary. cleanup please cleanup ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member bisenberger Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I've been thinking that an Octane Render plugin for 3D Coat would make 3D Coat look much more appealing. Maybe Andrew can work out some form of license agreement with them, to integrate it as it's own built-in renderer. Would be great to re-work all the shaders to work straight away in the renderer (meaning you can apply shaders to a Model texture painted in the Paint Room), including an SSS shader, I was testing the demo of their 3ds Max plugin...and it was really sweet. I'd pay extra for that, if that's what it took. That would be cool! I'm not up on all the renderers out there, but I have seen discussions on the Thea Render lately on the Luxology and MoI forums. It looks like Thea already integrates with a lot of 3D apps and the next release will have a . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi, What was the last most stable version of 3? I have two installs of 3DC, a last know stable (currently at 3.7.08B) and a test V4 folder. Cheers, Ricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 well... is NOT clear for the new forum users how submit a bug using mantis. And is not clear that Andrew use mantis like bug reporter over the forum. So the new user only see and use a SUPPORT sub forum and no mantis. - i suggest to add a sticky in every support subforum telling about mantis. Do you know Mantis ? 3DC Bug report site I posted this on the Youtube Channel to help explain the most effective methods of reporting issues/bugs....but I guess there is little interest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted October 30, 2012 Applink Developer Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I think that with old mantis report we could help Andrew. We could check if report is still valid. And we are not able to see it then ask feedback from the person who created the bug report. If feedback is not given then just close the report. I think that this is one area where we can be a real help for Andrew. If we just wait that Andrew goes all the reports one by one it will take a lot of time. Much faster bug fixing we get when we help a little bit. Of course there are people who are not so interested about reporting bug reports and that's fine of course. 3d-coat is sculpting program in the end. I myself really like about reporting bugs and trying to find patterns to find new ones. It's hobby almost I could say. Very boring one, but hey I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member bisenberger Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi, What was the last most stable version of 3? I have two installs of 3DC, a last know stable (currently at 3.7.08B) and a test V4 folder. Cheers, Ricky. From 3D Coat home page Download>Stable Release link, 3D-Coat 3.7.08B is listed as the stable version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Speaking purely from a user's point of view. When something goes wrong in the program frankly all I feel like doing is complaining about it. So I come here (doing it outside might make 3DC look bad), or if you're lucky I go to Mantis. After the bug is fixed I don't want any more to do with it. Now obviously I know there is a proper and better way to do things, but from a user's point of view that's my gut reaction. I'm thinking that's how most users really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member bisenberger Posted October 30, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I posted this on the Youtube Channel to help explain the most effective methods of reporting issues/bugs....but I guess there is little interest. Downloading now. Thanks AbnRanger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Poem of the bug hunter Wake up in morning, bug huntin' on my mind No time to be creative,wash my socks or dine Them bugs are crawling all over the walls Must do something or I will lose my mind Grab my shotgun, bug huntin' I go Wasting them bugs till the midnight glow Wake up in the mornng, bug huntin' on my mind... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Concerning bug reports since all the "New" version 3 reports some as old as Oct, 2010 got moved over to the version 4 section, this creates a problem of undue clutter, Can this be cleaned up... The version 4 section was very clean with only bug reports concerning that version was there. Yes I know that some of version 3 bugs are still in version 4 but to move reports from "New" 2010 is hardly necessary. Andrew does not change the status of the "New" reports, He just moves them to the resolved section when he fixes a bug. As I stated earlier, some of those old, old reports have been fixed in the course of development but never move to resolved. Yes, there is some filtering we can do but I can not filter out version 3 bugs as now they all are version 4 bugs since they were moved to the version 4 section. This is not meant to be critical of the intent to help but just that is the effect it has on a clean bug reporting section for version 4. Sorry, but I am not shure it is the right way to move the v3 bugs back to v3. Nobody will ever look into v3 before posting an already known bug. The "problem" why the v3 bugs make v4 a bit full is just the point they are not confirmed by the posters, if really resolved. I will take the time and check all v3 bugs and set them to closed if they are really not needed. I would be happy if some of the mantis testers would help me to do this. I have only moved the v3 bugs to v4 because I am have the feeling they would never ever receive attention in the future. "What you are not seeing is not existing..." So: I will check the v3 bugs until they are cleaned. If someone wanna help me, ok. And "no": There is no official beta team, as I know. I made the proposal to use mantis the first and now I try to manage the system in my spare time. I like to use 3D Coat and I like Andrews way to offer this tool to the community. Nobody is forced to support this. You can use the tool, you can use the beta and support it - but you are not forced to do it. My two cents to this topic. Best wishes Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted October 30, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 The triumph of altruism! Thanks for all your patient effort, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I do thank you for getting Mantis going, I have such a methodical brain, that the sudden appearance of those version 3 bugs boggled my brain. Mantis is great and as I can find some time, I will chip away at some of the very old bugs reports. (right now ones over a year old) EDIT: I do not want to close a report that still might be valid so I will add a note to the report that it is tested for and fixed at least on my linux version or appears not to vaild any more. That way either you, Andrew, Raul or Sergyi can make the official close. By adding a note to the report it will put back up at the top of the reports... Plus that way if Andrew wants to check it out himself he can do it. Otherwise it can be closed... Can you make a new field where we can sort the reports by ascending or descending report number. This would make it easy to find the oldest reports first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted October 30, 2012 Applink Developer Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Taros, you can count me in I'm not so interested about feature reports but with bug reports I will help to sort them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted October 30, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 Ok, I did my first old report (0000104) from 5-01-2011. It is now at the top of the list of reports and the suggested reasons for closing out the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 its me, or with V4 the extended menu windows close more fast ? suppose i select a voxel layers and need to subtract to another layer... i press RMB but is hard to select the layer needed because the layer menu list close so fast, and... if you move the cursor outside the menubox, its close too immediately. Is there any setting that user can change in preferences ? or the time to get the menu popup open is internal, fixed and default ? ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Mighty Pea Posted October 31, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'm trying fullscreen in v4, and notice that file dialogs appear underneath the 3dcoat window (and are therefore invisble), and I need to alt-tab to them. Very annoying. I'm also having trouble with brushes sometimes failing to paint on specific areas unless I scale my brushsize up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Just to clarify, Are your problems in per-pixel mode or microvertex? System info? GL or DX version of 3DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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