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I just came across this i don't know what your exact problem is tbh honest/ i am doin other stuff aswell and seriously if there where no ppl like me who express some other style of art... we would have never had those movie creatures or monsters in comics or whatever

so plz instead of opening a thread to ask why how about u just except te fact that art is more then just what u see personally as art

there is much more to this then what 1 person sees in it and freaks or monsters are a big part of cg art so just except the fact that not everyone is sculpting/ drawing real world all te time

( there is a reason why we don't do that, it`s called expression!)

and btw if u would take teh time to look up my other sketchbooks am doin other things aswell and

working with 3apps all the time

it is not that am not interested in doin real world it is more that am going slowly as am learning by doing and 1of tose things is anatomy, u mentioned michalis

who is a great artist when it comes to realistic sculpts but if i remember right he wrote once that he lacks the imagination part to create something that is not enterielly human

ps: correct me if am wrong michalis

anyways thx for pickin my sketchbook for the discussion

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Please tell me, why THOUSANDS of artists paint and sculpt nothing except freaks, monsters, weapon, different kinds of violence? Why you, guys, are absolutely ignoring the real world? Why THOUSANDS of artists find their artistic interest only in violence, military spaceships and deformity?!!

<snip>

The games... The main themes are violence and war. So much efforts of artists, another reality is created, a lot of objects modelled and textured, so much money spent in the development of the code, stories told, all just to enable the player to kill someone.

I'm so sad about today's news. Guys I'm not dragging this out again, but I can't be convinced that 'inspiration' for this type of violence (and against CHILDREN for heaven's sake) doesn't come from the trend mentioned by MrMamurk in this thread.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/14/us-connecticut-towns-idUSBRE8BD0U120121214

This type of act was pretty much unheard of until the 1980s when this type of game became available. It's not the availability of guns, they were widely available (and easier to get hold of) before that.

So, flame me and call me ignorant for my opinion if you like, but please, open your eyes.

Just to be clear, I AM NOT saying that creation of this type of sculpts is wrong. Art is art and we all have the right to our passion. I do think that GAMES that promote violence are having a horrific influence on our society. Those could have been YOUR children in that school (and I sincerely pray they were not).

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@Michalis, I'm saying that in my opinion, realistic, violent video games and movies promote violent acts.

Now, for all I know the murderer in today's massacre of children didn't play video games, but I'm willing to bet he did.

That's pretty much my point. I certainly won't hold it against anyone who disagrees, as I'm sure many do.

Since I'm putting myself out there with my opinions I'll throw this one in too.

I also blame our media (television news) for perpetuating this type of behavior. If it were up to me, we would NEVER hear the name of the insane sociopath who committed the crimes. There wouldn't be movies about them, books or any mention about their personal lives or problem. They would be referred to as 'the sociopath'. This takes a lot of incentive away from future "I want to be infamous too" crazies. But, that's not going to happen. The media seems to love this kind of thing.

Wow, I've gone so far off topic. I apologize. Just a very sad day.

Greg

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@BeatKitano, I'll take that as "I disagree". That's fine and point taken.

I do think you missed the fact that unlike breathing, this was pretty much unheard of before the 1980s. What are your thoughts on what started this 'trend' if you can call it that?

I've lived long enough to realize I won't change anyone's mind, nor is it likely you'll change mine, but still interested in your opinions.

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Greg, you haven't gone off topic with your message. Really, it is very important to understand that visual art (as painting, as films, as games, as everything what artists and producers make) has an impact on the society.

It is common statement to say that Soviet art and culture was just a "propaganda". But let me explain a little bit. Soviet culture was always and everywhere intended to teach people: starting from animations for children and up to newspaper messages and advertizing. And at that time everyone had to know how to learn something for the sake of Soviet ideals. It was necessary to have a critical mind! (At least to criticize the Capitalism, lol). There was a HUGE press of soviet ideological critique on every soviet citizen. And there was not just an idea of only-one-Red-Soviet-Party, but also the ideas of friendship, justice, competence, self-discipline, physical culture, sport and so on. In Soviet culture there was a cult of sublime work and workers instead of entertainment. Soviet citizens were most reading people on the Earth, it is true. It is still possible in Russia or post-soviet countries to find here and there the shelves with a lot of literature, when you come as a guest to someone's home. Even soviet science-fiction books are much more than just an entertainment, there are thousands of pages where you can't find even one terrible monster or murder. But the dream had died in 1991, and since that time there is no Motherland, no ideology, no criticism, no sublime work, just a capitalism in it's worst meaning.

Today everything is vice versa, all about entertainment, and everything is allowed for the sake of sales: sеx, drugs, murder, monsters, crazy aliens in culture are produced just to entertain people. And culture nowadays has no intention to teach you how to live or establish any rules other than criminal code. But! Who cares that there is a psychological trap?

Children have no critical mind. Children take the strategies of behavior of EVERY hero in the films or games. Children repeat everything they see. And furthermore, critical mind is not developing in the realm of entertainment and consumption. There are corporations, which are NOT interested in people, who are smart and critical (nothing personal, just a business, right?). So there is also a lot of adult people with no critical mind.

So... As you, Greg, have said before: "We eat what we're fed." Even if it is the seeds of hatred.

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Greg, take mine as a disagree too.

Shall we blame art for all these horrible events? Movies?

An art police, is this what we'll have soon?

Because, you never know how deeply stupid politicians may be. And doctors. And citizens, ignorant people to vote the worst, the easiest to blame.

After such acts of violence, fascism might arise.

What I reply to all on this thread.

The easiest is to blame art. Not the wisest.

I deeply believe that such violent acts are completely irrelevant to videogames or thrillers, movies etc.

We're sitting, talking about these when US is full of gun owners. What about the death penalty? The real thing...

Which are also irrelevant IMO. More or less. Yeah, it was a shooting, this doesn't mean that an axe or a knife couldn't do the job too. Or some dynamite (if I recollect correctly)

Now, we have a real nazi party in the greek parliament, you know.

What should we do about it? In lot of other countries a nazi party is prohibited by low.

Are we ready for some more violence now?

Edit:

@MrMamurk

Is it possible for you to avoid using bold letter, please?

All you posts start sounding a bit weird, are you gonna be the art policeman? By who's authority?

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@MrMamurk

Is it possible for you to avoid using bold letter, please?

All you posts start sounding a bit weird, are you gonna be the art policeman? By who's authority?

I am using bold text to make accent on some sentence within the big message. I think it is easier to perceive an idea with accentuations than plain text.

I am not an art policeman, forget about that. I am questioning, I do not forbid. Anyone is free in his creativity, but I am also free to have my opinion and discuss something. If I dislike something, it doesn't mean that I should shut up. It also doesn't mean that I force someone to stop sculpting and drawing. There is an art, and there is an opinion. Another artist - another art. Another spectator - another opinion.

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For someone getting offensed by the use of Swatiska on drawings you sure look eager to define what's beautyfull and what is wrong...singlehandedly.

Also surely psychopaths and sociopaths were waiting for violent imagery to perpetuate crimes. There was none before.

Hint: this is not even an argument, I'm merely laughing at those latest posts...

@michalis: Good luck with the Golden Dawn, sucks to be in Greece right now :/

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sorry but, i think the point of view is wrong

the human nature is to be a predator, the human is a natural born killer

from the beginning of the humanity, years of war and murders show what we are.

killing one by others, killing nature, killing environment

live and death in an eternal cycle

is our curse

only religions can appease the killer instinct.

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those people wants "fame"...its not about video game violence and global desensitization to violence..

Mark Chapman didn't play videogames before shooting Lennon..

its about the way medias capitalize on this even making awful comparisons and charts between previous shootings..

some people who reach a point of despair big enough to kill themselves might just want to go out with a "bang",

something to be remembered of...the medias will give that to them and they know it...

IMO strict gun control is essential...of course guns will always be available ,but when they are as easy to get as a candy bar

it makes those kind of plans much easier to put in action... very sad times..

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lookin @ the latest posts it becomes clear that this is way over the initial starting post

to be honest i dont really get this at all

good & bad, beauty and the beast u can turn the coin all day long but those 2 will coexist

and believing that art, pictures or movies or even games would be the reason for all of that

is the same like being a racist

u blame something for the actions of others

there is no sense in it

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To think games don't promote some form of violent tangent in society, is to simply deny the obvious. Most of these types of acts aren't simple murders. They go where there are large concentrations of people and act out the same type of gallery style shooting common in games. I never saw anything like this rash of individuals going into highly populated areas and start spraying bullets, when I was growing up. Only after violent video games started becoming more and more prevalent. We are not only talking about violence in video games, but a dark, twisted nature in many of them.

Those who like playing those games will suddenly wax ignorant and make all manner of excuses why it's not a factor, but the proof is right in front of your eyes...on the news and on your X-Box. It's like trying to convince a meth or heroin addict that the drug is doing them great harm. You'll never succeed. This trend is only going to get worse. That's not to say everyone who plays these types of games will act on it, but it does indeed feed the imagination of those who do....especially the disaffected in our society. It wasn't all that long ago that society was addicted to forced labor/slavery. All kinds of excuses were made to defend it's practice. It stopped only after much war and bloodshed. I wonder how many parents have to watch their children caught in the crossfire, before society starts putting some reasonable constraints on entertainment? This includes movies that glorify twisted, gory violence, just for shock/entertainment value.

It's funny how everyone feverishly crowds around to a fist fight...not wanting to miss a single blow, but should a tragic, unintentional injury occur in the process, then we turn on the perpetrator (we were just cheering on) and lock them away as if they are a menace/monster. What a hypocritical world we live in today.

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I never saw anything like this rash of individuals going into highly populated areas and start spraying bullets, when I was growing up.

yeah,it is a known fact Charles Whitman was a big Doom3 player....James Oliver Huberty too.. in 1984....

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yeah,it is a known fact Charles Whitman was a big Doom3 player....James Oliver Huberty too.. in 1984....

I don't know what your point is, but I know for a fact there were no rash of Columbine-style shootings before violent video games came along. you can pretend ignorance all you want, but it doesn't change the obvious.
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I don't know what your point is, but I know for a fact there were no rash of Columbine-style shootings before violent video games came along. you can pretend ignorance all you want, but it doesn't change the obvious.

your facts are wrong...San Ysidro McDonald's massacre; 21 person shot with assault weapons in 1984..much time before Columbine.

(only one example ...among many)

only games out there were the supermario bros...

This thing became viral not since the birth of violent videogames but since the medias are turning those guys into "superstars".

They get more attention than nobel prizes ....

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I think much of what we precieve as a "rash" of new incidences of mass killings is a product of our society becoming more and more interconnected. As technology has allowed us to be more aware of everyday events accross the globe we have more and more been exposed to things that before we might have never have known about. Thousands of single victim killings happen every year but we often don't hear about them unless a celibrity is involved or it happens in our backyard. Someone who is prone violent behaviour is not going to be more or less prone to that behaviour if he or she is exposed to violent media, it may even serve as an outlet for those urges. Engaging in actual violence is a bit differnent then engaging in fatasy violence and it takes a significant leap to cross over that threshold.

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your facts are wrong...San Ysidro McDonald's massacre; 21 person shot with assault weapons in 1984..much time before Columbine.

(only one example ...among many)

only games out there were the supermario bros...

This thing became viral not since the birth of violent videogames but since the medias are turning those guys into "superstars".

They get more attention than nobel prizes ....

You're comparing Apples to Oranges. Using just one isolated instance isn't going to negate the epidemic of video game gallery style massacres that are happening with greater and greater frequency.
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I think much of what we precieve as a "rash" of new incidences of mass killings is a product of our society becoming more and more interconnected. As technology has allowed us to be more aware of everyday events accross the globe we have more and more been exposed to things that before we might have never have known about. Thousands of single victim killings happen every year but we often don't hear about them unless a celibrity is involved or it happens in our backyard. Someone who is prone violent behaviour is not going to be more or less prone to that behaviour if he or she is exposed to violent media, it may even serve as an outlet for those urges. Engaging in actual violence is a bit differnent then engaging in fatasy violence and it takes a significant leap to cross over that threshold.

We've had several mass, gallery-style shootings just in the past 2yrs, in America alone. Pretending that they aren't being fed these ideas through the media (gratuitous violence in movies and video games) is just nonsense. It's one thing to make movies and video games about monsters and such. but it's entirely unnecessary to have games where players shoot regular citizens and get points, or movies like SAW, that is glorification of sadistic torture and murder.
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To think games don't promote some form of violent tangent in society, is to simply deny the obvious. ... We are not only talking about violence in video games, but a dark, twisted nature in many of them. ...

Those who like playing those games will suddenly wax ignorant and make all manner of excuses why it's not a factor, but the proof is right in front of your eyes...on the news and on your X-Box. It's like trying to convince a meth or heroin addict that the drug is doing them great harm. You'll never succeed. This trend is only going to get worse. That's not to say everyone who plays these types of games will act on it, but it does indeed feed the imagination of those who do....especially the disaffected in our society. ... I wonder how many parents have to watch their children caught in the crossfire, before society starts putting some reasonable constraints on entertainment? This includes movies that glorify twisted, gory violence, just for shock/entertainment value.

San Ysidro McDonald's massacre; 21 person shot with assault weapons in 1984..much time before Columbine.

(only one example ...among many)

only games out there were the supermario bros...

This thing became viral not since the birth of violent videogames but since the medias are turning those guys into "superstars".

They get more attention than nobel prizes ...

Hey, folks... Let's try to listen to each other. Really, I can't see a contradiction here. We can be arguing all night, eventually we will speak about the Stone Age or Ku Klux Klan. The fact that violence left strong footprints on the road of human history doesn't prove that imagination and visual representation of the violence doesn't play the role in the decisions. We can easily see that the visual representation of a murder has a different impact on people: some people became less sensitive and grow more tolerant to the sight of blood, guns, someone's fear and pain; some people eventually lose their ability to empathize, became emotionally indifferent to everything they see (whether it is a movie or real scene); other people feel depressed and lose their inspiration (as I am). And really, all described impacts are bad in my opinion. Some artists became indifferent to what they are working on; players became indifferent to what they are playing, people became indifferent to each other... It is bad. I think it is bad. And it is clear that the culture educates us, whether it is a game or book; whether the educational aspect is implied or not.

Anyway, my opinion is not intended to be understood as ultimate truth. If I am saying that something should or should not be depicted in some manner - it is my own decision, I am not forcing anyone to agree with me. But the HUGE interest to this thread is a sign for me that my thoughts and thoughts of those people who to some degree agree with me really has the right to exist.

the human nature is to be a predator, the human is a natural born killer

Nope. I disagree. To kill or not to kill (forgive me Shakespeare) - it is a matter of the more or less conscious decision. And it strongly depends on the ability and knowledge to solve the problems another way. When people don't know how to overcome their troubles - only then the violence comes to the fore.

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We can easily see that the visual representation of a murder has a different impact on people: some people became less sensitive and grow more tolerant to the sight of blood, guns, someone's fear and pain; some people eventually lose their ability to empathize, became emotionally indifferent to everything they see (whether it is a movie or real scene); other people feel depressed and lose their inspiration (as I am). And really, all described impacts are bad in my opinion. Some artists became indifferent to what they are working on; players became indifferent to what they are playing, people became indifferent to each other... It is bad. I think it is bad. And it is clear that the culture educates us, whether it is a game or book; whether the educational aspect is implied or not.

I would argue that people who become indifferent to the point of commiting a horrible act of violence have deeper issues then having been exposed to a violent movie or video game. I grew up watching slasher films and I still cringe everytime I watch them to this day. I don't watch them because I think it's fun to watch people get hurt I watch them because I like being scared and I realize it's fictional. It's like sky diving or riding a roller coaster, it simulates the flight or fight response. People who do watch these kinds of movies and get there jollies when the bad guy wins are comming to the table with existing problems. I can see how some people might draw a connection between sensationalized fiction like violent video games and movies and Murderes who commit sensationalized killings but I think we also need to account for the radically different mental state most of these killers would need to be in to see such a plot through to it's end.

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From the things that i have seen so far ( am actually working in a emergency room where life and death and things like murder/ suicide and accidents are what i daily have to deal with as in see the end product of it)

speaking for myself/ it doesnt leave me cold/ neither do i enjoy it but it is the way it is

am objective and cannot allow myself to be dragged down by feelings/ as this is the ultimate no go where am working

i fully understand the sickness but from my understanding the humanity is actually on a good way even with all those things that happen

when lookin back at the 1st post of the thread it truly makes me sad but even kinda glad

at least this way some of you been able to share and discuss our current situation in the world and art itself

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We've had several mass, gallery-style shootings just in the past 2yrs, in America alone. Pretending that they aren't being fed these ideas through the media (gratuitous violence in movies and video games) is just nonsense. It's one thing to make movies and video games about monsters and such. but it's entirely unnecessary to have games where players shoot regular citizens and get points, or movies like SAW, that is glorification of sadistic torture and murder.

To cite a source on this topic that I heard last night on my way home from work on NPR, the number of victims of mass murder has stayed the same for several years now. Yes the venues have become more shocking but the overall number of victims hasn't changed. Unless you can show me hard numbers to back up the claim that violent fiction is the cause of so many mentaly unstable individuals ploting and performing these horrible acts I just can't accept the presumed corilation. I think we need to be pointing the finger at mental illness and environmental factors like abusive parents and exposure to real world horrors.

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Those who like playing those games will suddenly wax ignorant and make all manner of excuses why it's not a factor, but the proof is right in front of your eyes...on the news and on your X-Box. It's like trying to convince a meth or heroin addict that the drug is doing them great harm. You'll never succeed. This trend is only going to get worse. That's not to say everyone who plays these types of games will act on it, but it does indeed feed the imagination of those who do....especially the disaffected in our society.

I couldn't have put it any better. Combine the practice and desensitization the disturbed person gets from video games, the inspiration and thoughts of 'fame' from the media and the availability of weapons in our country and look out. People who commit these acts are true cowards. Fully armed, wearing bullet proof vests and slaughtering unarmed men, women and children.

Did I mention I didn't expect to change anyone's mind about this? I still don't, but I'm happy we're having this discussion.

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This is sadening.

Not only you're trying to match a "novelty" as the cause of problem in our societies without a single clue as to why it would be the cause (because all those mad guys play video games ? Damn, get some maths and look at how much people play them, tell me why there's not MUCH MORE KILLING then ?).

You're also completely disregarding the human traits.

Like Artman I say it's because they are HEROES (not my word, go to 4chan or any marginalized group on the net to see those are glorified heroes in the eyes of those who don't have faith in Man) and the media give them so much credit any deranged soul will go that way, with or without videogames, all it takes is a gun and the will to go "with a bang".

Now I won't try to convince you all because you obviously chose to believe in what makes you the most confortable (put censorship on those games and problem is solved right ?, as if simply playing those games will make you a killer automaticaly and there wasn't any external factor which is the base for those murders....), but the fact remain that our world is becoming increasingly more violent not though some violent art forms but by creating more poors, making people sick by creating commpetitive inhumane work/living conditions while the rich laugh.

Violent art forms are not the cause, they're the mirror of our world dying from a slow indifferent death.

Also, I read that videogames are the new roleplaying games of our century, you know those weird games that created suicidal kids and satanic cults all around the world in the 80s ! (AHAHAHAHAHAH)

Now I must be ignorant of course, TV says so Idon't know why they would lie to me by saying VG are dangerous, they all share the same amount of screen time nowaday (oops !)....

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Consider that mass killings are the definition of socio/psychopath. The Norwegian killer managed to inflict mass killings in a tightly gun controlled country. Some have suggested it would be easier to control ammunition than guns. There are more guns per capita in Switzerland than in the US but also a far more homogeneous population of generally peaceful folk.

That issue aside, the individuals who inflict this on their communities are acting on the well covered/advertised examples of psychopaths that went before them. No normal person will succumb to the 'example' of video games. Society's job must be the early discovery and treatment of the disturbed/depressed people before they detonate in a usually suicidal orgy against innocent people. Think of them as a human pathogen. In fact, there are ideologies that promote the proliferation of human pathogens. They use the disturbed/depressed among their adherents for their destructive ends.

Most of us have "mirror neurons" that cause us to wince at the sight of another being injured, In some this ability is lacking (we call them narcissists). It is from their ranks that torturers are drawn. Someday neuroscience will have advanced far enough that such individuals can be treated or at least identified.

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