3D-Coat 3.0 ALPHA

[Andrew Shpagin]

Another question.

It seems that above around 12 million tri, voxels become unusable in term of speed (both for navigation and sculpting). I'd like to know if it is related to the available VRAM (since CUDA uses texture ram for buffers) or simply that this is a global ceiling in term of performance.

In other words, would a graphic card with alot more vram help to speedup above that limit.

Has anyone been successfully working above that limit? Anyone with a 4GB quadro card for instance?

Franck.

It is not related to graphic card. It is subject to be optimised.

[psyborgue]

Also Intel will release their first Larrabee GPU in Q1 2010..i'm kinda more interested in that card.

Intel is an amateur in the GPU market and has a horrible record in the performance dept. I'd trust NVIDIA or AMD a lot more than a newcomer. Intel makes good CPUs, yes, but GPUs? No. To date, their GPUs suck ba**s. My prediction: Nvidia and AMD will clean Intel's clock as they always have. A newcomer without all the expertise just doens't come in and oust two very competitive rivals (Nvidia, AMD). They'll probably do nicely for themselves in the IGP market, but outside that? pfft... If Intel is smart, they'll buy Nvidia, as AMD has done with ATI. Without their expertise, they can't hope to seriously compete in the big leagues.

[Roger_K]

Intel is an amateur in the GPU market and has a horrible record in the performance dept. I'd trust NVIDIA or AMD a lot more than a newcomer. Intel makes good CPUs, yes, but GPUs? No. To date, their GPUs suck ba**s. My prediction: Nvidia and AMD will clean Intel's clock as they always have. A newcomer without all the expertise just doens't come in and oust two very competitive rivals (Nvidia, AMD). They'll probably do nicely for themselves in the IGP market, but outside that? pfft... If Intel is smart, they'll buy Nvidia, as AMD has done with ATI. Without their expertise, they can't hope to seriously compete in the big leagues.

I kind of agree with you but I was never aware that intel even made a performance GPU before, so how do you make a comparison. This would be a major investment for them, They have plenty of money so they should be able to get experiences technicians . I doubt they are taking this endeavour lightly. I'm not over awed by it myself but I's say its a good idea to remain open minded, I've been suprised before. Intel buying NVidia would be a nightmare situation. I'd say its nice to keep them fighting and thus keeping things fresh. its not like ATI are putting Nvidia through their paces at the moment

[WillBellJr]

I kind of agree with you but I was never aware that intel even made a performance GPU before, so how do you make a comparison. This would be a major investment for them, They have plenty of money so they should be able to get experiences technicians . I doubt they are taking this endeavour lightly. I'm not over awed by it myself but I's say its a good idea to remain open minded, I've been suprised before. Intel buying NVidia would be a nightmare situation. I'd say its nice to keep them fighting and thus keeping things fresh. its not like ATI are putting Nvidia through their paces at the moment

That may be true but I wouldn't buy an iNtel GPU simple because of my experience with their crappy graphics adapters (Dell system at work).

I only buy nVidia based systems for my personal use - laptop and desktop.

I was just finn'n to buy a 2Gig GTX285 - interesting to hear about the '300...

-Will

[Javis]

That may be true but I wouldn't buy an iNtel GPU simple because of my experience with their crappy graphics adapters (Dell system at work).

I only buy nVidia based systems for my personal use - laptop and desktop.

I was just finn'n to buy a 2Gig GTX285 - interesting to hear about the '300...

-Will

Not to continue this off topic discussion, but I find it interesting (looking at video cards)...

I've been eye ballin' video cards lately to upgrade finally (still running with a GeForce 7600 GT, lol), and the GTX260 is looking sweet for the price. You can get one with 1GB of RAM for $199 or thereabouts. Personally I'm going to hold out on the GT300 series of cards for a while, until they drop in price after release. But then again... If DX11 is good enough. I may buy one.

[renderdemon]

I ask again,maybe someone want to help.

How it can be disabled right mouse changing radius and brush fallof?(actually not right mouse,but the button on the intuos pen)

I can't disable the button pen,because I like a lot the navigation using it,but the fact that also that button changes the radius and fallof makes me going crazy(IMHO this is a bad design solution if the user can't disable it)

Some months ago it didn't worked like that,and sculpting was a nice experience,now,with that stuff,it makes sculpting a bad experience.

[wailingmonkey]

lc8b105,

with your new administrator status, perhaps you can find some

time to clean up this 212(and growing)-page thread that folks seem to want

to continue having general debates over this or that hardware/software...

not trying to be an assclown, but guys...can we have some respect for the

point of this thread? <not directed at anyone in particular, as I am just as guilty

in failing at times to put bugs/requests in their appropriate forums as well>

[Javis]

I ask again,maybe someone want to help.

How it can be disabled right mouse changing radius and brush fallof?(actually not right mouse,but the button on the intuos pen)

I can't disable the button pen,because I like a lot the navigation using it,but the fact that also that button changes the radius and fallof makes me going crazy(IMHO this is a bad design solution if the user can't disable it)

Some months ago it didn't worked like that,and sculpting was a nice experience,now,with that stuff,it makes sculpting a bad experience.

Actually the changing of brush size/intensity has always been this way with the RMB + Dragging. What did change however is the navigation method in 3DC.

I love the current method as it's a huge workflow improvement.

Let me explain how it works, and what you can do if you don't like it.

Currently it's almost exactly how it used to be, but now 3DC can distinguish whether you're performing an action within or outside of an object, or even in navigation zone (rectangular shape around the viewport). So if you want to size your brush, RMB + drag over an object in the scene. To navigate, use the mouse + drag outside of the object or in the navigation zone. This is with the default 3DC navigation style.

What I would do, since you don't like it this way, is to change to Maya style. You'll have to navigate how you do in 3DC v2, that is to say, you must hold ALT + drag. However, you can also customize all mouse actions + a hotkey to boot. I've uploaded a navigation style for you that does what you want. If you RMB + drag outside OR inside of an object, it will perform the brush operations as you mentioned. But you will need to hold ALT + drag to navigate.

See the attached .zip for the navigation style.

PS- This is a bug which I will mention here, and report in the bugs thread. It relates to what I just mentioned above.

When you using a navigation style that resizes the brush size/intensity OUTSIDE of an object, the brush isn't visible, but is still completing the action. You can see the changes once you mouse over an object in your scene.

Maya_v2.zip

[Javis]

lc8b105,

with your new administrator status, perhaps you can find some

time to clean up this 212(and growing)-page thread that folks seem to want

to continue having general debates over this or that hardware/software...

not trying to be an assclown, but guys...can we have some respect for the

point of this thread? <not directed at anyone in particular, as I am just as guilty

in failing at times to put bugs/requests in their appropriate forums as well>

Agreed.

[renderdemon]

Thanks.I'll give it a look.For me right mouse radius changing is completely incontrollabe.actually when I start sculpting radius or strenght change without that I want ,only because I have my pen in the hand.

P.S

I'm testing 3dcoat 3 since September,it's not true that radius had always worked like that.

Actually the changing of brush size/intensity has always been this way with the RMB + Dragging. What did change however is the navigation method in 3DC.

I love the current method as it's a huge workflow improvement.

Let me explain how it works, and what you can do if you don't like it.

Currently it's almost exactly how it used to be, but now 3DC can distinguish whether you're performing an action within or outside of an object, or even in navigation zone (rectangular shape around the viewport). So if you want to size your brush, RMB + drag over an object in the scene. To navigate, use the mouse + drag outside of the object or in the navigation zone. This is with the default 3DC navigation style.

What I would do, since you don't like it this way, is to change to Maya style. You'll have to navigate how you do in 3DC v2, that is to say, you must hold ALT + drag. However, you can also customize all mouse actions + a hotkey to boot. I've uploaded a navigation style for you that does what you want. If you RMB + drag outside OR inside of an object, it will perform the brush operations as you mentioned. But you will need to hold ALT + drag to navigate.

See the attached .zip for the navigation style.

PS- This is a bug which I will mention here, and report in the bugs thread. It relates to what I just mentioned above.

When you using a navigation style that resizes the brush size/intensity OUTSIDE of an object, the brush isn't visible, but is still completing the action. You can see the changes once you mouse over an object in your scene.

[Javis]

Oh I see what you mean. What I did then wont help you.

I guess the only thing I could recommend is maybe try holding your stylus differently, I know I had change how I held pens and stylus's when I started using a Wacom.

[philnolan3d]

I am just as guilty in failing at times to put bugs/requests in their appropriate forums as well

I am guilty of this too, but for some reason some bugs just felt like they belonged here. Really, it should be set up like the NewTek beta forum (hope I'm not breaking any NDAs here) and just have a forum section for bugs, then each new bug gets it's own thread then others can confirm it or discuss it. This saves from having the same bug being posted multiple times, assuming everyone will search before posting. Of course like I said in the past, NT mainly uses Fogbugs last I saw, I don't know what they're doing for Hardcore members yet, but the forum was also there for discussion.

[renderdemon]

Oh I see what you mean. What I did then wont help you.

I guess the only thing I could recommend is maybe try holding your stylus differently, I know I had change how I held pens and stylus's when I started using a Wacom.

Yes,this is what I'm trying,but it's not easier holding the pen differently for me,I use wacom since 5 years continuosly and changing now for me is like playing a guitar with the other hand!

btw thanks,I appreciate you tried to help.

Bye

[Javis]

Yes,this is what I'm trying,but it's not easier holding the pen differently for me,I use wacom since 5 years continuosly and changing now for me is like playing a guitar with the other hand!

btw thanks,I appreciate you tried to help.

Bye

Yeah I hear you there... It's kind difficult.

No problem, I'm sorry I wasn't any true help there. Maybe next time.

[Oliver Thornton]

Yes,this is what I'm trying,but it's not easier holding the pen differently for me,I use wacom since 5 years continuosly and changing now for me is like playing a guitar with the other hand!

btw thanks,I appreciate you tried to help.

Bye

Renderdemon,

You can adjust the navigation scheme by using Customize Navigation, which is found under the Camera Tab by the viewport controls. This will let you set the keys and any modifiers you want.

-Oliver

[SonK]

Intel is an amateur in the GPU market and has a horrible record in the performance dept. I'd trust NVIDIA or AMD a lot more than a newcomer. Intel makes good CPUs, yes, but GPUs?

The intel GPU your talking about are low end IGP, so their performance would suck..i hope your not using that for 3D work :P . Anyway you do realize that Larrabee is mostly still a CPU? only the texture units are GPU related, everything else is CPU related, its pipeline is software rendering, tile base not like conventional ATI/nvidia GPU.

I kind of agree with you but I was never aware that intel even made a performance GPU before, so how do you make a comparison. This would be a major investment for them, They have plenty of money so they should be able to get experiences technicians . I doubt they are taking this endeavour lightly. I'm not over awed by it myself but I's say its a good idea to remain open minded, I've been suprised before. Intel buying NVidia would be a nightmare situation. I'd say its nice to keep them fighting and thus keeping things fresh. its not like ATI are putting Nvidia through their paces at the moment

Intel did make a performance GPU(Intel 740) but it was back in the days and it didn't do will. For the Larrabee project Intel did obtain alot of ex ATI-3Dlabs engineers, so the know-how is there...among other 3D exprting working on it.

The performance projection for Larrabee looks competitive, what would make or break Larrabee will be the drivers,but from what i heard they got alot of engineers working on that also. And i agree having 3 players in the discrete GPU market is great, great for the consumer.

Not to continue this off topic discussion, but I find it interesting (looking at video cards)...

I've been eye ballin' video cards lately to upgrade finally (still running with a GeForce 7600 GT, lol), and the GTX260 is looking sweet for the price. You can get one with 1GB of RAM for $199 or thereabouts. Personally I'm going to hold out on the GT300 series of cards for a while, until they drop in price after release. But then again... If DX11 is good enough. I may buy one.

With DX11 card just around the corner, i have to wonder what Andrew is going to use to speed up 3DC voxel sculpting, currently he is using CUDA, but there is also OpenCL and Compute Shader which will be introduce in DX11.

[psyborgue]

The intel GPU your talking about are low end IGP, so their performance would suck..i hope your not using that for 3D work :P . Anyway you do realize that Larrabee is mostly still a CPU? only the texture units are GPU related, everything else is CPU related, its pipeline is software rendering, tile base not like conventional ATI/nvidia GPU.

The wiki article states that it won't be an IGP and will be sold as a discrete gpu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrabee_(GPU..._with_Intel_GMA

It claims to be promising, yes, but I doubt it will deliver, especially considering by the time it's released NVIDIA and ATI will have likely surpassed any of their current designs.

[mocaw]

Sorry everyone, but I fear that once again this thread is veering off topic- or far enough that it's starting to take focus away from what is currently 3DC 3.x alpha.

Yes, OpenCL, CUDA, new technologies from Intel and others look to shift some of the burden of 3D around and speed up our working lives and open new doors- but right now we have what we have and Andrew is making the most of it AFAIK. I'm sure he's aware of up and coming changes, and even if he isn't he has proven to be a more than capable developer in integrating them into 3DC.

I'm not saying these discussions aren't useful- but once they reach a certain mass of their own they start to turn the attention away from getting 3DC out the door with fewer bugs, solid UI, and stabilized features.

Just my two rapidly devaluating cents!

[Roger_K]

Sorry everyone, but I fear that once again this thread is veering off topic- or far enough that it's starting to take focus away from what is currently 3DC 3.x alpha.

Yes, OpenCL, CUDA, new technologies from Intel and others look to shift some of the burden of 3D around and speed up our working lives and open new doors- but right now we have what we have and Andrew is making the most of it AFAIK. I'm sure he's aware of up and coming changes, and even if he isn't he has proven to be a more than capable developer in integrating them into 3DC.

I'm not saying these discussions aren't useful- but once they reach a certain mass of their own they start to turn the attention away from getting 3DC out the door with fewer bugs, solid UI, and stabilized features.

Just my two rapidly devaluating cents!

so redirect the thread with a bug report or suggestion . I personally think this has a HUGE amount to do with 3d coats future. I do agree tho if someone could grab these posts and put them into a new thread it would be great.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Updated to V84

Changes:

1 ) Totally reworked main menu by Shadow's standart

2 ) new style of all sliders

3 ) New masks by Shadow

4 ) Bugfixes

5 ) Local shortcuts in rooms for tools (main menu shortcuts are global)

Changes in tools:

6 ) Retopo (+Cap tool, better UV mapping)

7 ) UV-mapping tool - coloring and possibility to tweak clusters

8 ) Renewed previews in voxel tool

9 ) Improved ref images tool

10) prolonged trial

Actually I have many in "to fix" list, but this version has status "RC" - release candidate.

I have week and half to make final changes and fixes before release.

[Javis]

Awesome! Thanks Andrew, downloading right after this post.

[akira]

Woot!! Thanks Andrew! Congrats on the RC milestone!!

Regards,

akira.

[Maximus3D]

Thanks for the new update Andrew now we all know you're a quick developer but how are you going to finish it all in only one and a half week ?! that's not a lot of time..

/ Magnus

[Javis]

Yes congratulations on the RC! Exciting times.

I like the continuity of the menus now. Very nice. I REALLY love the new sliders, and all the new icons. Everything is looking fantastic.

[Javis]

I'm working in the retopology Room/Tab, it seems the Params tab that was popping up, no longer is... Which is fine, but now I can't find the "Mirror Snapping" settings anywhere. Anyone located it yet?

Actually all of the parameters for each Retopo tool are gone... Doh!

[philnolan3d]

Awesome news about RC! I'll tell all my friends. lol After checking it out of course.

[Andrew Shpagin]

I'm working in the retopology Room/Tab, it seems the Params tab that was popping up, no longer is... Which is fine, but now I can't find the "Mirror Snapping" settings anywhere. Anyone located it yet?

Actually all of the parameters for each Retopo tool are gone... Doh!

Ok, really forgotten. Will fix it soon.

[Maximus3D]

Same here about the retopo tools, i cannot find the window where i change from one type of retopo method to another. It seems to have dissapeared into infinity..

Actually what would be a nice thing is if you could relocate the auto-quad function to the retopo tab as a button and/or a menu function so we can apply that function to any object without having to go through the whole process of moving the mesh via the sculpt tools and all that..

/ Magnus

[3DBob]

Congratulations Andrew on not only being very close to a HUGE and very useful release - but also to keeping to a punishing release schedule.

By the way - love the interface work - really looks like a pro app now.

Can't wait to get the stable release into production. Got the CC ready for the upgrades.

[philnolan3d]

Cute idea to use the 3DC logo ball in the shader panel, but it doesn't show cavities nearly as well as the previous thumbnails. You can barely tell the difference between Bronze and Bronze No Bavity. I also notice a couple of them do not use the new icon, still the old one.

Don't think me conceded, but Is everyone else seeing the "Blue Church" shader I made a while back? I posted it in the forum, then in the next version I saw it and assumed it was included with the install, but it might be that it was just left in my folder from when I made it. If so that's one of the shaders that still has the old icon.

I really like the new sliders along the top, a similar idea to LightWave's "mini sliders". However, unlike LightWave they stop at 100%. It would be nice if they could keep going beyond that. Or maybe even better if they could stop at 100, but then by holding a key like Shift or Ctrl they could go past that.