3D-Coat 3.0 ALPHA

[Christoph]

3dioot, i agree with you in that if it`s turn OFF it should not affect the width...As you said it`s a bug that need to be fixed. I`m sure Andrew is already working in that. How brush behaves is crucial in an sculpting app.

Cheers

[philnolan3d]

New vid. This one just really quickly showing what each of the current volumetric tools does. This one's short so I got it on Youtube.

[Bancho]

New vid. This one just really quickly showing what each of the current volumetric tools does. This one's short so I got it on Youtube.

:lol: Thank you!! :lol:

I believed that it was impossible changing the drawing plane of 2D-Paint.

3.00ALPHA-06(DX)

WinXP Pro sp2 32bit

Dual-Xeon3G HT

3G Ram

RadeonX1950

-------------------------

http://www.k2.dion.ne.jp/~output/c/3d-coat.html

[philnolan3d]

:lol: Thank you!! :lol:

I believed that it was impossible changing the drawing plane of 2D-Paint.

LOL No prob, just right-click.

[splodge]

Talking of draw plane....

Wouldn't it be best if we could use the camera's current angle for the draw plane angle?. Much more free flowing?.

I can see how the current fixed method could be quite useful because it means we can take a peek from another angle without losing the plane.

Another idea would be to create a tool that combines '2D-Paint' with 'Carve'. So if we draw on an empty area of the screen then it'll create geometry there. Yet if we draw on the surface then it'll build up the surface similar to Carve. I think this could lead to a really rapid workflow without having to switch tools.

I also agree with earlier posters that say Carve needs to use the depth setting. It can be far too powerful. In earlier versions of 3D Coat I would use 'Draw with Pen', but since that function is now surface based it's no longer useful for building up my model as the polygons become too stretched. This then means that I have to constantly switch to voxel mode and back to surface mode again in order to remove the stretched polys.

[geo_n]

Thank you for the reply.

Those scales made in ZB.

But, we are able to make scales in 3DC.

(It's not easy like the ZB.)

Wao! You can speak japanese!

Yes, I am a japanese.

3.00ALPHA-06(DX)

WinXP Pro sp2 32bit

Dual-Xeon3G HT

3G Ram

RadeonX1950

-------------------------

http://www.k2.dion.ne.jp/~output/c/3d-coat.html

Excellent. I thought it was carved out of 3dc. I think any poly modeller can do it though and import it in 3dc to detail the scales.

Are you a freelance in tokyo? Im also in tokyo. hajimemashite, dozo yoroshiku.

[3dioot]

Since it seems there is confusion over what i meant with the brush stroke width here is the SAME bug but this time with stroke width depending on pressure. Its just that this way its a bit harder to explain but the effect is even more devestating.

Brush radius bug version2

What is even worse is that this wrong curve (the one on the left) is directly dependent on the shape of the brush (i.e. the fallof curve). So you will get different sensitivity each time you adjust the tip of your tool!

As you can see on the left the way its implemented now means that for you to make a stroke with a width of more then 50% you will only have the top 20% of your pen pressure to do it. This is why the brush feels so random.

So you see this bug effects BOTH the strokes made with radius linked to pressure as well as the strokes made with radius unlinked to pressure.

GrtZ 3dioot

PS

I could be wrong about all this ofcourse. If you can spare the time Andrew it would be nice if you could confirm/deny this so that if its something else we can figure it out while we sculpt with the alpha.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Yes, I am doing carve in this way now.

Thanks for pictures. I love your pics

[Andrew Shpagin]

Phil, thanks tor review video!

I have placed link to video on first page of the discussion.

[3dioot]

Glad i can help and thanks for implementing the suggestions.

With all these things implemented the alpha will make a huge jump. People wont believe how smooth its going to be. :lol:

3dioot

[buqa]

LOL No prob, just right-click.

That reminds me one idea a got recently.

Now, if you right-click, you have drawing plane as tanget plane to surface. But sometimes you can't see (or just can't define the point with the exect normal you need), so it would be great to have a option of defining 3-point plane (the only plane containing these three points).

[Andrew Shpagin]

ALPHA updated to V.10

Changes:

1) Voxel based move.

2) New style of carve tool

3) Clay tool

4) Much more (maybe 10x) faster transforming surface->voxels

It was very big piece of work, especially 1 and 4 (maybe 2 whole days). 2,3 - only hour or two.

But move with symmetry works slower then expected. It will me fixed. Also speed of transforming surface->voxels will be speeded up.

Also one trick - press 'U' to show model using other view type (works only in DX mode). It is made by ZB-like technology (but hardware accelerated) and if it looks OK it could be improved very much by speed.

This type of view renders model to depthfield and then calculates normals on second pass of rendering using depthfield. This technology allows to skip all calculations of normal in engine and give speed boost.

Now normals are calculated anyway, so this view mode is only FYI.

[3dioot]

Thanks alot! Im downloading it right now. I cant believe you allready implemented the new carve also. I cannot wait to try it out! (hurry up download!) :lol:

3dioot

[Andrew Shpagin]

Thanks alot! Im downloading it right now. I cant believe you allready implemented the new carve also. I cannot wait to try it out! (hurry up download!) :lol:

3dioot

Anyway carve is not perfect still. It requires some work and ideas.

[3dioot]

Yes i noticed. Im allready thinking about how to explain it.

Seems that depth is never controlled by pen pressure (i tried unlinking it and back again). This makes it hard to test carve. The weird thing is that the depth slider seems to work perfectly. I.e. when i set it to a low value i really get a squashed sphere which looks fantastic. When i raise it to 100% it comes closer to a full half sphere in profile. It really is perfect. Please make it so that linking depth to pen pressure works.

Radius setting also works now which helps alot.

Really if you make the option to link depth to pressure its close to perfect. (i just found out its only perfect on a flat surface; the reasons are stated in the post below) There is one possible hiccup that ive allready thought of but i really have to test it with pressure linked to depth for that to give examples.

OH! IVE JUST TESTED THE MOVE TOOL! Its fantastic Andrew. You have outdone yourself. What are you a magician? I had hoped it would work this good but didnt expect it. Wow! :lol:

Man i just edited this post to tell you how awesome move is. No other package has this nor will they have anything like it. They way youve implemented this where you can litterally drag volume into existence without it giving you any problems, its amazing. Its voxel sculpting at its best. Zbrush nor Mudbox will be able to do this with their upcoming releases and unless they change their core tech they wont be for the coming years either. You created something amazing. It was well worth your time. Big artists that use zbrush and mudbox will drool over this feature. (and me too)

Cheers

3dioot

PS

Ive just done some extra carve testing. Im so glad to feel that the pressure curve is ok now. I tested it with radius linked to pressure and its smooooth. I really hope its a small fix to make link/unlinking of depth to pressure work. Because then i can test my theory and explain the last thing to make carve "finished". Im pretty certain ive got it nailed but i would prefer to show it to you from 3dcoat screengrabs itself rather then just schematics.

Edited this post extensively to make sense. The excitement got the better of me for a moment. It should all be correct now

[3dioot]

Yep im certain of it. It needs three (not one) more things done to it.

-Depth and surface orientation sampling as shown in this thread click me He only shows the two extremes the best value would be in the middle ofcourse. This is REALLY important to implement now with the new method. The old method had the lucky side effect that it partly hid the lack of dept/orientation sampling because the brush was projected through the surface from the inside (when adding). With the new method you do the opposite; you take a point on the outside and project the brush onto the surface making the lack of sampling extremely apparent. This is the biggest reason for its current crudeness.

-A seperate master fallof dictating the influence radius of the brush on the sculpt (this is different from the brush profile curve). Since there is a control for fallof allready that isnt working (the one that controls the little curve you see inside your brush) that might allready be it just not working. You can compare it a bit with the alpha you can use with the pen tool. While that dictates the entire shape of the brush what is needed for carve is the ability to blend the outer percentages of the brush into the surrounding voxel sculpt while the main depth pattern of the brush is dicated by the profile curve. You dont even need a curve. Just a percentage will be good.

-Working link for depth to pressure.

I know it looks gnarly as hell right now but that really does make sense if you compare before and after approach to carve. I could explain this in depth but i think Andrew allready knows. It will get better we are getting close.

3dioot

[renderdemon]

Hi,I'm testing the volumetric sculpting.

In MHO is going better and better,what is missing is a way to move(smooth) large part of the volume,to change proportions.

I was trying to sculpt a character from the base sphere that come when you press the little cube on the lower left on the screen.

It was easier "extruding" limbs but changing the shape from it's original sphere looking it's a bit hard,because:

Carving big area are not easily controllable

The move tool work better on small area,at least I wasn't able to smoothly change proportions with it.

Btw,it's really promising

[tree321]

Yep move tool is so much better it would be a lot better if there was a soft selection control.

[Bancho]

Excellent. I thought it was carved out of 3dc. I think any poly modeller can do it though and import it in 3dc to detail the scales.

Are you a freelance in tokyo? Im also in tokyo. hajimemashite, dozo yoroshiku.

Hello!

初めまして!!

Yes! I am a freelancer.

My office on Meiji-St. in Shinjyuku Sity.

I am envious of you who can speak English.

3.00ALPHA-10(DX)

WinXP Pro sp2 32bit

Dual-Xeon3G HT

3G Ram

RadeonX1950

-------------------------

http://www.k2.dion.ne.jp/~output/c/3d-coat.html

[Christoph]

Amazing new release. I completely agree with 3dioot, the move tool is AWESOME. And the transition from surface to voxel is WAY FASTER.

Seems that depth is never controlled by pen pressure

I second that. The carve tool does not change depth with pen pressure.

REQUEST:

I will like to request the option to adjust the "size" of the brush and the "depth".

Silo has the best work flow in this regard. Middle mouse click left to right and you will adjust the "size"...middle mouse click up and down and you will adjust the "depth". I have the middle mouse click configured to one of my pen buttons and it works very intuitively.

[3dioot]

Amazing new release. I completely agree with 3dioot, the move tool is AWESOME. And the transition from surface to voxel is WAY FASTER.

REQUEST:

I will like to request the option to adjust the "size" of the brush and the "depth".

Silo has the best work flow in this regard. Middle mouse click left to right and you will adjust the "size"...middle mouse click up and down and you will adjust the "depth". I have the middle mouse click configured to one of my pen buttons and it works very intuitively.

Im against hardcoded shortcuts period.

Apart from that im all for it. Except i strongly dislike the combinational movement. Two axis doing different things. Ive seen that used in many different ways (including creation of primitives to name just one) and it never felt like i had enough control. I like to change one parameter at a time without worrying about keeping my mouse or tablet in a perfect straight line so i dont mess the other one up.

I dont remember where ive seen it but i really liked where it worked like this. You had a modifier key (just a shortcut you can change) and when you pressed it your brush would freeze in place and the radius would stick to your mouse pointer. When done you let go of the key and you could continue. Very fast, very precise, and very good visual feedback.

I think these things are extremely important to be implemented right but im personally not too worried about them right now. Except ofcourse if it becomes a hardcoded shortcut key or it uses two axis for two different paramaters. :lol:

3dioot

[Christoph]

I dont remember where ive seen it but i really liked where it worked like this. You had a modifier key (just a shortcut you can change) and when you pressed it your brush would freeze in place and the radius would stick to your mouse pointer. When done you let go of the key and you could continue. Very fast, very precise, and very good visual feedback.

Mudbox has sticky keys for size brush and pressure. You hold down "B" and adjust size...Hold down "M" and adjust pressure.

[3dioot]

Yeah i like how mud does it. Also the sticky keys. I use softimage xsi for my polymodelling which is sticky key heaven. The stuff you can pull of in that program is amazing. Almost every command is transparant.

3dioot

[Christoph]

I edit my previous post because i actually love both ways...

So if Andrew implement the size and brush with sticky keys or with left, right, up an down MMB like i request earlier(my favorite). Either way i will be happy. But that work flow enhancements could be implemented later.

Speaking of work flow. Other thing that i would love to have is the option to switch on and off to maintain the size and the depth of each the brushes. So each brush will maintain it`s size and depth every time i come back to them. But again. that could be implemented later...

[Andrew Shpagin]

Updated to v. 11

Changes:

1) Much faster move and surface->voxels transforming. I think at least 2x.

2) Carve acquires pressure

[splodge]

New Clay and Move tools are wonderful.

[Juan Carlos Montes]

Nice!!, Downloading Now.

[Juan Carlos Montes]

Andrew Nice work with the clay tool an the Carve pressure but if you use the Move tool and execute Undo leave a lot of artifacts :S.

Here is a screen capture video http://screencast.com/t/nrWRdAHyI

[3dioot]

Awesome! Thankyou very much for the speedy fix.

Ill wait patiently now for the depth and orientation sampling and brush falloff. Is it clear what im talking about with those or would you like me to sketch something up?

3dioot

PS

Would you find me very annoying if id ask you to fix clay depth to work with pressure too?

[Monsoon]

I must say that this wishing by artists and the wishes coming true on the very same day is highly unprecedented, and as the 3d veterans here can surely attest, almost unnatural!!

Careful Andrew...you may wind up with a cult following on your hands lol......