Program for Artists Needed

[Straker]

Hi there,

 

For the past 20 yeas I've worked in the Film, TV and Theme Park Industries, in many roles. I'm a traditional sculptor and painter, so moving into 3D sculpting has been a challenge for the following reasons:

 

Firstly, sculpting is primarily a right brain activity for those who have done it for a long time, and on a large scale like myself, know that it takes about 30 mins usually to switch into that rame of mind where you can see the object within a block.

 

3D programs in general like any technical tool, are left brain orientated, where I find I am struggling to stay in right brain creative mode, becasue I am forced back into left brain technical functions all the time to try and work out what a tool does, or what a function means, etc etc.

 

Personally I have no desire to know about things such as Python Scripts, Retopology, and lmany other technical aspects of these programs. I just want to sculpt and paint without thinking about anything else.

 

3D Coat is the closest I've found to that (although Sculptris is okay, the toolbars are cryptic rather than visual). I'd like someone to create a program with visual artists in mind, with toolbars that look like the function we need, and not very many of them.

 

I'd like to see a UI with tools that look like real world clay sculpting tools, that perform like real world clay sculpting tools, and I'd like to see the tool sometimes if I want to as though it was in my hand.

 

Sure, there could be other technical aspects to access via a seperate menu, but the main one should be simple and visual.

 

I'll make a sample interface in Photoshop to show you what I mean, and perhaps people can comment on that.

 

Best

James

www.ianjamescolmer.net

 

[BeatKitano]

Ill mame it quick, I'm at work:

 

1) I agree

2) Why posting that here ? Are you expecting Andrew to change the UI with your proposal ?

3)I'm not against it, it's just there's been a lot of that, in that direction, nothing happened I wouldn't get my hopes up, still I'm behind you

[Tony Nemo]

It may require a thorough familiarity with the tools before right-brain takes over. BeatKitano is probably using his right-brain whenever he's not frustrated.

[AbnRanger]

It may require a thorough familiarity with the tools before right-brain takes over. BeatKitano is probably using his right-brain whenever he's not frustrated.

Or maybe he's trying to get his brain to work in symmetry mode.  

[michalis]

I'm not really convinced that we have a left and a right brain. Whatever scientists claim. 

Why don't you try zbrush? The tools-brushes are great. You gonna need a third and a forth part of your brain though. 

You can create very interesting things in zbrush. How you gonna export them is another case. Here comes the third and the forth brain use,  I guess. 

But you are an artist, it shouldn't be your concern. As in real world. It is never a concern of a sculptor, how to start carving in real marble, how to cast clay, such things. 

And a painter demands, "i like oils, dry at this moment", answer: try acrilics, reply: No, I don't like them, I like oils... 

Watercolors: have a wet paper of good quality, reply: No, no, it turns to a washed mess, answer: this is watercolors, what do you expect? Reply: something clean, reply: on a washed mess, start adding darker crisp forms and the rest will become nice lightened areas, Reply: ???? 

Good luck. I agree with you on one point though. 3dcoat's sculpting tools are behaving weird, at least. They don't follow the well spread predictable tool set behavior around 3d sculpting apps. Pity. 

Andrew will not change them. So take it or try another app. 

[AbnRanger]

I'm not really convinced that we have a left and a right brain. Whatever scientists claim. 

Why don't you try zbrush? The tools-brushes are great. You gonna need a third and a forth part of your brain though. 

You can create very interesting things in zbrush. How you gonna export them is another case. Here comes the third and the forth brain use,  I guess. 

But you are an artist, it shouldn't be your concern. As in real world. It is never a concern of a sculptor, how to start carving in real marble, how to cast clay, such things. 

And a painter demands, "i like oils, dry at this moment", answer: try acrilics, reply: No, I don't like them, I like oils... 

Watercolors: have a wet paper of good quality, reply: No, no, it turns to a washed mess, answer: this is watercolors, what do you expect? Reply: something clean, reply: on a washed mess, start adding darker crisp forms and the rest will become nice lightened areas, Reply: ???? 

Good luck. I agree with you on one point though. 3dcoat's sculpting tools are behaving weird, at least. They don't follow the well spread predictable tool set behavior around 3d sculpting apps. Pity. 

Andrew will not change them. So take it or try another app. 

Michalis, Andrew worked his fanny off, recently (build 4.0.06A), to dramatically improve the brush behavior/feel in Surface mode...and I personally love the way they work, now. Why then, must you come here, to Andrew's forum...which he pays good money to host and maintain...and use it as a platform to do nothing but consistently bash his work, while trying to sell a major competitor? That's just low down, man. Please, if you hate 3D Coat as much as it seems, and love ZBrush and Blender....fine....but go hang out on their forums, instead...OK? Is that so much to ask?

 

Sure, there are areas for improvement. What app doesn't have them? You always come here to promote Blender, while taking a jab at 3D Coat. I'm personally getting sick of it. As it stands, 3D Coat is far better than either ZBrush or Blender in 3 major areas....Texture Painting, UV Editing, and Retopology. Despite what you claim, yes...it is leagues ahead of Blender when it comes to sculpting. Zbrush had several years head start on 3D Coat as a sculpting application...so, it's not surprising that it's ahead in that segment. However, in just the few years that 3D Coat has been developing it's sculpting toolset, Andrew has closed the gap considerably...to the point that it is a legitimate alternative. A case could also be made that 3D Coat has moved past Mudbox, and is now ZBrush's chief competitor. That's an astounding achievement, if one stops to think about it.

 

What you never bother to mention is that 3D Coat's legacy is Texture Painting (ZBrush's is sculpting). You'd be hard pressed to find a better solution outside of Mari (which costs $2k+ maintenance fees). So, for us to even have a level of sculpting that rivals both ZBrush and Mudbox, at half the price is absolutely amazing. At it's price-point, 3D Coat is a tremendous value/alternative for anyone who has not already bought a seat of ZBrush or Mudbox.

Edited September 4, 2013 by AbnRanger

[Elizeusz]

"3D Coat is far better than either ZBrush or Blender in 3 major areas....Texture Painting, UV Editing, and Retopology"  , - and i will add working with scaned mesh in which 3dcoat is for me the best !  

[Carlosan]

Try to Voxel Sculpt using ZB or Blender...

 

In the overall view, well.. i think is time to have a more mature approach to the mind sharing, stop the childish conversation, stop the clan war -my app vs your app-, and stop bashing people.

 

We are artist sharing common objectives using different ways, and there isnt an only one and best way...

 

its just a personal point of view

 

 

//edit

 

If any1 with positive attitude like to suggest changes to the software, there is some different ways to do it

 

testing the experimental builds

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10395

 

Using our bug tracker

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php

 

Or sharing feature request new ideas

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showforum=14

 

ty

[AbnRanger]

Try to Voxel Sculpt using ZB or Blender...

 

In the overall view, well.. i think is time to have a more mature approach to the mind sharing, stop the childish conversation, stop the clan war -my app vs your app-, and stop bashing people.

 

We are artist sharing common objectives using different ways, and there isnt an only one and best way...

 

its just a personal point of view

The point in my previous post was that 3D Coat has it's own share of advantages, and that for someone like Michalis to keep coming here, on Andrew's forum, continually trying to tear it down while promoting other competing applications is just way over the line. People who are trying out the application come here for help and after reading his rantings, they might wrongly conclude that 3D Coat isn't worth much. How would he like it if he were in Andrew's shoes....having relentless pessimists trying to run off his (potential) customers? That's a dirtbag move to tell a prospective customer of Andrew's to try something else, instead. Most software companies won't put up with that mess on their forums.

Edited September 4, 2013 by AbnRanger

[Tony Nemo]

Oy, Michalis, given your apparent disdain for 3D-Coat, methinks you haven't given the current build a spin. Things have improved mightily since last you used 3D-Coat. Even BeatKitano, who often expressed his annoyance, has been lured back (but until he shows us an avatar, he may be ready to decamp).

[TimmyZDesign]

I agree with you on one point though. 3dcoat's sculpting tools are behaving weird, at least. They don't follow the well spread predictable tool set behavior around 3d sculpting apps. Pity. 

Andrew will not change them. So take it or try another app. 

Honestly I don't know what Michalis is talking about. I use both Zbrush and 3D-Coat, and I think the 3D-Coat sculpting tools are great, especially in the latest build (4.0.06A). Also, Andrew has been improving the sculpting tools, so I don't know why Michalis says he doesn't.

 

 

I'd like someone to create a program with visual artists in mind, with toolbars that look like the function we need, and not very many of them.

 

I'd like to see a UI with tools that look like real world clay sculpting tools, that perform like real world clay sculpting tools, and I'd like to see the tool sometimes if I want to as though it was in my hand.

 

Sure, there could be other technical aspects to access via a seperate menu, but the main one should be simple and visual.

 

I'll make a sample interface in Photoshop to show you what I mean, and perhaps people can comment on that.

Yeah, so far I think 3D-Coat is the closest to what you are describing. If you want to, you can already customize your UI (look in the Edit menu and choose "Customize UI"). Additionally you can click on the big "T" icon above the toolbar to change the way the tool buttons look. Keep pressing that button (multiple times) to cycle through all the different options. Also, you can create custom tools and put them in the Presets panel. That way you have all of your favorite tools in one place! But please post your Photoshop sample interface. I'm interested to see it.

 

Lastly, I must say that I like having lots of tools. Just like in my garage at home, I like to have lots of different tools hanging on the wall because some are much better to use for certain things than other tools are. Both 3D-Coat and Zbrush have a TON of tools, and both Zbrush and 3D-Coat have a special spot where you can put your favorite ones...and I think that is a good thing. Also, I'm not a big fan of icons. I keep all of my tools in text mode, because reading the name of the tool feels easier to me than trying to see the difference between similar looking icons. Plus, you can then fit a lot more tools in the toolbar that way!