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3D Coat - An Idea of Collaboration?


Rob
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I'm not sure this should go here, so please move it if it doesn't fit.  

 

I've been thinking how much a union between 3D Coat's creators and Mesh Fusion's creators would make a fabulous and hopeful dent in the world of 3D.  Anyone here ever give thought to contacting Boris and Darrel at Braid Art to find out about infusing GroBoto ideas into the end product? Seems like a good idea to me, though technically I'm not sure.  That said, I believe these three people - Andrew, Boris and Darrel have potential to revolutionize 3D like never before.

 

 

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I'm not sure this should go here, so please move it if it doesn't fit.  

 

I've been thinking how much a union between 3D Coat's creators and Mesh Fusion's creators would make a fabulous and hopeful dent in the world of 3D.  Anyone here ever give thought to contacting Boris and Darrel at Braid Art to find out about infusing GroBoto ideas into the end product? Seems like a good idea to me, though technically I'm not sure.  That said, I believe these three people - Andrew, Boris and Darrel have potential to revolutionize 3D like never before.

Greg, one of the moderators here, has been an advocate of Groboto, so I'm sure he's mentioned them to Andrew, to explore some of the concepts. But 3D Coat's Voxel Modeling already does Mesh Fusion very well, and Andrew spent a lot of time recently to improve the Auto Retopo algorithm. So, I think it's a matter of adding yet another toolset in 3D Coat to do what it already does...pretty well.

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If it works, great and I'm really glad to hear this.  But, I think we're about to see some drastic changes in 3D modeling as Boris and Darrel burst out onto the world with this beautiful way to model.  I'm hoping 3D Coat will be in on it.

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From what I have garnered the next version of Groboto will be an exciting step forward in it's development.

 

 

“GroBoto is not designed to replicate or refine toolsets and methods found in well established 3D applications. Rather, it endeavors to offer new approaches that make 3D Modeling & Imaging more intuitive, more artistic, more productive, and less technical.”

 

It's ability to allow for play and changing boolean permutations before committing to a final polygon output is both a strength and weakness.

The irony of non committing in design choices predominates a tendency for play over progress.

The pragmatic uptake of such implementations will be based on not whether it is beautiful way to model but whether it is a time saving way for artists to realize the ideas in their heads. Groboto is a wonderful tool for showing you ideas you may have never considered yet so too are ink blots. Most artists/ designers need to get a selection of strong ideas down quickly to ascertain by comparison which is the best a.k.a pencil and paper.

 

Whilst happy accidents are a pleasant addition to the creative process relying on them for design inception over a strong idea is time wasted.

Groboto needs a few key additions to close that gap and I suspect and hope it will deliver in it's next guise.

 

It's main current weakness is that it channels a certain stylistic output which limits it's pragmatic creative spectrum.

It also tends to bend the artist to it's 'roboto ways rather than the other way around.

Artist reserve the right to be personally idiosyncratic whilst preferring their tools not quite so.

 

Those trialing it's forthcoming technological inception in Modo may be the wiser than we in the dark.

My hope is that I shall eat my words and have pie slapped in my face.

 

All that said I love Groboto and invested in it because I think it's a fantastic idea that I hope will fulfill it's potential.

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From what I've seen, the creators of GroBoto might change how we look at a lot of things from a modeling perspective. I've owned GroBoto from the beginning and have really appreciated the creativity. A step further in a practical sense, in my opinion (and others), and we could really have some actual fun.  It'll be great, really.

 

 

From what I have garnered the next version of Groboto will be an exciting step forward in it's development.

 

Those trialing it's forthcoming technological inception in Modo may be the wiser than we in the dark.

My hope is that I shall eat my words and have pie slapped in my face.

 

All that said I love Groboto and invested in it because I think it's a fantastic idea that I hope will fulfill it's potential.

 

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Groboto with its dynamic booleans indeed introduces a highly interesting new concept and it's makers are very talented in showcasing their tool.

That said, I think that Subdivision based systems should profit a lot more from an integration - the new Modo implementation will free people from having

to think ahead, One will be able to cut a precise circular hole into a complex model without previous planning and massaging the mesh - that will make 

hardcore SubD modellers very happy. Integration in subd's however comes at a high expense, as one will have to establish a secondary geometry structure

which lives alongside with the mesh.

3DCoat with Voxels and dynamic tesselation is in an entirely different situation. What's traditionally tough in Subd's here is a complete non issue! Already

now one has complete freedom in terms of boolean operations and there's freeform primitives already. I imagine that one could extend this concept further

relatively easily, with more parametric primitives and maybe even parametric boolean operations. I don't think that one needed to ask the the Groboto makers

for help in this case. :)

Edited by polyxo
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@polyxo - Hey, I think you're right!  However, it's possible Darrel and / or Boris together with Andrew could come up with even cooler stuff in 3D Coat, since Andrew's mind is already in that place of the power of boolean and dynamic tesselation and voxels.  Really, I'm an amateur outside the realm of a true grasp of what might be done, but it seems logical enough to me that these three people together could do some amazing things.

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@polyxo - Hey, I think you're right!  However, it's possible Darrel and / or Boris together with Andrew could come up with even cooler stuff in 3D Coat, since Andrew's mind is already in that place of the power of boolean and dynamic tesselation and voxels.  Really, I'm an amateur outside the realm of a true grasp of what might be done, but it seems logical enough to me that these three people together could do some amazing things.

I was thinking something similar in regards to pmG Messiah. There have been a number of requests for things like Hair and Fur, simple rigging, better renderer, etc., in 3D Coat. To which I asked Andrew about a possible collaboration or licensing of Messiah as companion/extension of 3D Coat....tightly integrated. So that buyers can have the option for a full pipeline (from modeling to animation/rendering) and still pay a few hundred less than a seat of ZBrush or Mudbox.

 

Everything Messiah is lacking in a full pipeline app, 3D Coat provides, and vice versa. Messiah's market has dried up largely because it was always positioned as a Character Animation extension for Lightwave and Modo. Now that both of those apps have addressed that need internally, Messiah is sort of like an app without a home (market). Shame, cause it's an extremely powerful one. Nevertheless, I don't think Andrew is too keen on "collaborations"...even if it might seem to make sense to us, as users.

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That'll never happen, unfortunately. I tried to help the situation out for that very reason. But the developer of messiah is such a recluse, he never once responded to any of our emails, only through an intermediary. And even then, his responses were nil and we never heard from him again.

 

Maybe when he comes out to play in a few years he'll change his mind. :)

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I understand.  Business decisions take wisdom.  As for Fori, I've never completely understood what he's doing being so isolated, etc. Messiah Studio is such a cool program and I see its potential. It even has a reworked Arnold renderer.  GEEZ. The possibilities for animated film seems to possible.  And yet he seems happy doing what he's doing.

 

So, onto better possibilities. I still think the GroBoto guys and Andrew might be amazing together.

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That'll never happen, unfortunately. I tried to help the situation out for that very reason. But the developer of messiah is such a recluse, he never once responded to any of our emails, only through an intermediary. And even then, his responses were nil and we never heard from him again.

 

Maybe when he comes out to play in a few years he'll change his mind. :)

Seeing that his sales have to be practically nil, now, I was hoping that, if Andrew was indeed interested and made an offer to Fori, it might take the whole matter out of his (Fori's) hands. It's a shame to see such a powerful piece of software rot on the vine...simply because the developer is literally a hermit.

 

On a slightly different note, do you think you could ask Brad or anyone on the staff (Modo/Foundry) about possibly working with Andrew to create a live link from 3D Coat's Paint Room to their Renderer/Shader Tree? I'm seriously thinking about buying a seat of Modo (switch from Max due to AD's recent upgrade policies), and that would be a killer reason to make the move. I was told they already have an internal link from their paint tools, to see live updates in the IPR. Having the same capability between 3D Coat and Modo would be sweet.

 

In 3ds Max, you could use a "Combustion" Material, and that would create a live link between 3ds Max and Combustion. One could then use Combustion's paint tools to paint their textures and see live updates in 3ds Max's viewport. So, something like that between 3D Coat and Modo or Lightwave should be possible, if both parties are interested in tapping into the other's userbase.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z_GbQSkgZ8&feature=youtu.be

Edited by AbnRanger
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Here's the thing. I'll mention it, of course (today).  But, Allegorithmic just announced Substance Painter, which will (in my guess of guesses) probably be integrated into Modo someday.  Have you thought about that instead - a connection with Substance Designer or the upcoming Substance Painter?

 

 

Bump...for the question about a live link between Modo's shader tree and the Paint workspace in 3D Coat.

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Bump...for the question about a live link between Modo's shader tree and the Paint workspace in 3D Coat.

 

 

It already exists, more or less. You can use the applink (which is pretty cool). Or thanks to how Modo works, you can simply export from 3DC and overwrite your textures that exist in the shader tree and upon returning to Modo it will notice the change in the file and ask you if you wish to reload the file. It's actually pretty smooth transitioning and works like a charm for me.

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Here's the thing. I'll mention it, of course (today).  But, Allegorithmic just announced Substance Painter, which will (in my guess of guesses) probably be integrated into Modo someday.  Have you thought about that instead - a connection with Substance Designer or the upcoming Substance Painter?

 

 

That is one sweet looking piece of software. I was pretty happy to see something like that in the works. That said, keep on eye on 3DC for something similar regarding "dirt maps". It should be cool.

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Javis - Thanks for the idea about moving from 3DC to Modo! It's so simple and yet I hadn't thought about it.  Cool!  And I can't wait to see what's next in 3D Coat. My biggest problem is prioritizing time to just get to know 3D Coat.

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It already exists, more or less. You can use the applink (which is pretty cool). Or thanks to how Modo works, you can simply export from 3DC and overwrite your textures that exist in the shader tree and upon returning to Modo it will notice the change in the file and ask you if you wish to reload the file. It's actually pretty smooth transitioning and works like a charm for me.

If you watch the video I embedded above, you can see what I mean by a live link. There would need to be an internal script for both apps to communicate constantly. Not just on export/import, via applink. Andrew would need to write a script that calls to Modo to update the texture map with every stroke or operation. Basically the same thing that happens when you paint on the model in 3D Coat's 3D Viewport....when you let up from the cursor, the 2D Editor is immediately changed/updated.

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I'm not sure this should go here, so please move it if it doesn't fit.  

 

I've been thinking how much a union between 3D Coat's creators and Mesh Fusion's creators would make a fabulous and hopeful dent in the world of 3D.  Anyone here ever give thought to contacting Boris and Darrel at Braid Art to find out about infusing GroBoto ideas into the end product? Seems like a good idea to me, though technically I'm not sure.  That said, I believe these three people - Andrew, Boris and Darrel have potential to revolutionize 3D like never before.

After testing Auto-Retopo on hard-surface models, there is a LOT of room for improvement. For some reason, it works pretty well on organic models, but the success rate on Hard Surface objects drop dramatically, and often times it can take longer to make several attempts to get something useable, than it would to just use the Strokes tool from the start.

 

So, yeah...it would be nice to see some type of collaboration between the two parties. It looks like they could take the shapes created with the stroke guides and make a nice clean mesh from it. I think there is some interest on Pilgway's part in maybe working with the developer of MOI for a Nurbs toolset in 3D Coat, or a plugin. If they could generate both NURBS/Solid Surface output AND a nice clean polygonal mesh, that might kill 2 or 3 birds with one stone.

Edited by AbnRanger
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