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polyxo
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interesting design palsan, looks a bit like lightwave to me - with that whole dictionary worth of words on the left... I would really easily get lost in that so Im not a fan I still like shadows designs, other people might like it more than me though.

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Eeek! Though I'm a lightwaver user I dont like that interface because its visually unappealing like lw gui and more people hate lw gui.

3DC needs to make an impression. But I did think that a hotbox like maya would be a good idea but it would mean losing a mouse button.

Where's Arkanis??

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Who are these people that don't like LightWave's UI? I think that mock up looks good, witha bit of refinement of course. For example, the catagory dividers on the left side (Color Correct, Hide, Freeze, Etc) could be distinguished a little better, right now they just look like more buttons. Of course I understand that's just a mock up.

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Who are these people that don't like LightWave's UI? I think that mock up looks good, witha bit of refinement of course. For example, the catagory dividers on the left side (Color Correct, Hide, Freeze, Etc) could be distinguished a little better, right now they just look like more buttons. Of course I understand that's just a mock up.

Non lightwave users. :lol: I'm sure there are many people here who dislike lw text only gui.

Even two of our TD used lw 12 years ago up to 5 years ago have since switched over to other appz says when I fire up my lw in the office, its so freaking old and 80's looking, familiar like an on girlfriend but not wanted anymore :lol: . Anyway I have my own tabs that I use and rely heavy on kb shortcuts.

3DC needs to look attractive and functional not too much textbased like old programs.

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yeah the whole "empty viewport with no interface" and also "radial menus and no other menus" ideas seem a bit elitist to me, sure it could be an option for when you are experienced and know all the quick gestures and shortcuts but its definitely not what most people would expect who are used to other creative applications like photoshop or modo etc and would make a heavy learning curve for new users...it might be better if they persevere but that doesnt count for all the people who dont persevere

It just sounds to me like you dont' have much experience with radial menus. Radial menus are not "hidden" menus. They are the same as when you know pressing Windows button will pull up the Windows start menu only the menu appears at your cursor so that you're eyes will never have to move.

And just to be clear. I only started using 3dCoat last month or so, so I'm not sure how anyone can say I'm being elitist. I mean you see those File, Edit, View etc? on the top of 3dCoat UI? Click on them. What happens? Thats a radial menu. Only it isn't circular. Is it elitist that you have to remember that in order to save your file you have to click on the File button?

Don't blame me because photoshop conventions or whatever you guys are used to are just plain clunky. I mean programs like photoshop play it super safe when it comes to UI because they want to be the Wal-Mart of photo editing. But there are some programs out there that have taken a few "risks" with things such as "hotkeys" and "popup menus" and "radials" that make things more intuitive if you ask me.

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The discussion about interface GUI shows up on too many forums that I monitor, as if it was a popularity contest, with the most votes winning??? There are some very valid, well researched ideas about color and it's influence on design, but these ideas seem not to be attended much on the discussion forums. Maybe not enough MFA education background in these fields, but my Color Theory class left a lasting impression on me. Whenever I have the option, I customize any interface that has too much color, as any color on the interface (or desktop, or canvas) will influence adjacent color choices, that you subsequently make, usually unconsciously. It isn't about the hottest colors, or what's current, etc. Well documented, doesn't need reinventing. The longer you work on a screen environment and the more variety of client work you take on, the more I appreciate a relatively dark/neutral screen environment, not too dark as then the light contrast tires the eyes. If color is used at all, it should be slightly tinted variations on the mid gray tones, some cooler, some warmer, but have the colors grouped by function for a more coherent learning curve.

Paul

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It just sounds to me like you dont' have much experience with radial menus. Radial menus are not "hidden" menus. They are the same as when you know pressing Windows button will pull up the Windows start menu only the menu appears at your cursor so that you're eyes will never have to move.

I didnt mean that you are elitist but rather that the idea that new users would want radial menus might be a bit elitist. Put it this way I work in a marketing and design studio I have been here 2 years, I asked all the guys who work with me wether they liked radial menus and first I had to explain to them all what a radial menu was because none of the apps we use here have them and then they were all pretty sure they didnt like radial menus. I mean if this is what its like in a design studio with professional creatives I think 3d coat users who are new to creative software might find radial menus a bit of a heavy learning curve and just a bit too non standard.

I come at this from the approach of "what will be easiest to understand in an interface" or "what interface will make me have to think less and learn less to be productive" whereas the radial menu seems to come from the idea of "what will allow me to move my hand least or move my eye less so that I can be faster and more productive than before". Both are valid design arguments.

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There is interesting mockup from russian forum (made by Shadow)

4nemsic4vX.jpg

I love this mock-up it's like Photoshop + 3DC and it looks very mainstream! You just need to add "vector mask" icon at the bottom of the layer tabl and show layer mask thumbnail within the each layer like Photoshop. I love the revision with the tabs for UV, Voxel,etc!

PS> i always thought LW3D GUI was fugly, probably alot of non LW user think that. Heck i think XSI GUI is ugly also. Stay away from text base GUI for 3DC please :P

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In terms of functionality this is the best GUI for now, but it's too much adobe like. I think that 3D coat need something special and completely original, but really handy not like zbrush... For many years i've wanted a software with a very clear GUI, maybe simply white. minimal or something. BTW it's an interesting challenge...

-TOXE

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In terms of functionality this is the best GUI for now, but it's too much adobe like

I disagree.

This might look slicker than the current UI but it would work worse than what we have currently.

Andrews right hand side dock which shows and gives access to all its parameters at once is one of the strongest

points in the current UI! I'm not saying that the current docker is perfect...

However, replacing a small direct access editor with a huge one which hides all but the currently active tabs

would be a plain stupidity.

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I don't care for this idea. I like to see the tools before I go to click on them, not think to click on it, then see it. Plus I don't care for the extra keyboard press every time I want to change tools, which can happen quite often while sculpting or with retopo. RMB wouldn't work because some tools need RMB.

I would at least like a Full Screen option, being able to hit "Tab" like Photoshop or Mudbox and just have a complete full screen, is often all i need when using a Wacom. hitting Tab is all it takes for the menus and buttons to appear again.

I do like Shadow's look it is at least clean and pro looking, I'm not 100% with all the ideas, but it's cleaner.... Maybe Andrew should start there and let users interact with certain decisions from then on. This discussion shows why Customization is important, because we will never please everybody. It's all about the basics and let users skin whatever they want. Silo got this bit right.

For myself the Interface is about Workflow, i.e how fluid i can keep sculpting, painting and working without having to search,

through menus, click 50 times to achieve a single function, stop working to think of where the next tool or function may be etc.. Pretty is nice and all, but workflow is far more important! (Do you hear me Microsoft?) CS3 for example was a huge step backwards, once the menus had all the items listed, now i have a little down arrow i have to press just to see what other items are on the menu.... It's thinking like this that should be avoided at all costs... :P

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There are no toolbars for brushes in that mockup.

Try again.

We need bars along the lines of this:

Sculpting (move scrape clay etc)

Creation (curves/primitves)

Utilities (cut and clone etc)

General hotbar (drag your favourite tools on it; move scrap clay, primitive sphere, cut and clone for example)

Profile bar (to dictate brush point, alpha's dont cut it Andrew)

All buttons on bars (yes hotbar especially) should be hotkeyable.

GrtZ 3dioot

PS

But as i said before you should leave this to a professional (ui developer that is; not just some graphics designer)

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There is interesting mockup from russian forum (made by Shadow)

4nemsic4vX.jpg

Andrew, this is the BEST interface I could imagine from the get go with version 3. It's immediately recognizable and I would imagine easy to use and jump right into the trenches and get to work.

As a personal preference, I would enjoy a text based interface as well, ala Lightwave. But only as an option.

Anyway, chalk up another vote for this mocked up interface! Very nice.

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Yeah I really think Shadow's interface is quite nice. I see it and feel like I want to start working in it, then I remember that it's just a still image. :lol: Of course it still needs a few changes but I think it's a great place to start and continue tweaking from there.

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Hey Phil. :)

Completely agree! That's the great thing about it, makes me want to dive right in and get to work. I already know how it functions and the interface looks more logical. As you said though, it does need some polish, other then that... I want it. :D

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New Menu

New

1. Edit> Menu, Keyboard Shotcut

2. Textures>Adjustments> Match Color

3. Layer> Group Layer, Ungroup Layer, Hide Layer, Layer Mask, Merge, Flatten Image

4. Window> Arrage, Screen Mode, Workspace (change the location of palettes for the different mode... Paint, UV, Voxel)

5. History

Rename:

1. Options > Preferences

2. Correct CMYK, RGB > Channel Mixer

3. Transform Color Space > Replace Color

4. View/edit/tweak textures and UV>Texture UV Editor

5. unshaded model > Flat Shade

6. shaded model > Smooth Shade

7. low shaded model > Low Smooth Shade

8. show model with enviroment map> Enviroment Shade

9. Show 3D - Grid > Grid

10. Show 2D grid >Grid 2D Mode

PS next step Viewport, Status Bar, Tools Bar & Tool Options

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Nice update. As far as options / preferences, I think that's really a personal choice of the program author, they mean the same thing in this sense and I see both used all the time. Firefox uses "Options", Photoshop use Preferences. I think instead of "Grid 2D Mode" you could just say "2D Grid".

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Nice update. As far as options / preferences, I think that's really a personal choice of the program author, they mean the same thing in this sense and I see both used all the time. Firefox uses "Options", Photoshop use Preferences.

Thx. I was so named because the "Options" this will be the title of the panel configuration of 'Tools Bar'

I think instead of "Grid 2D Mode" you could just say "2D Grid".

I don`t like both names, but another, I have not yet been invented... it would be good if someone proposed a new variant :)

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There are no toolbars for brushes in that mockup.

Try again.

We need bars along the lines of this:

Sculpting (move scrape clay etc)

Creation (curves/primitves)

Utilities (cut and clone etc)

General hotbar (drag your favourite tools on it; move scrap clay, primitive sphere, cut and clone for example)

Profile bar (to dictate brush point, alpha's dont cut it Andrew)

All buttons on bars (yes hotbar especially) should be hotkeyable.

GrtZ 3dioot

PS

But as i said before you should leave this to a professional (ui developer that is; not just some graphics designer)

Your post is too negative.

Try again.

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Allright.

Its clear Shadow's ui is the best proposal so far.

I hope Andrew actually makes your UI (not some degraded version; your version exactly) because it looks very well thought out so far. Clear menu's. Correct descriptive english terms and a logic structuring.

Shadow I hope you will expand it to deal with V3 voxel sculpting abilities soon. Im very curious what you will come up with; if the 2d part is anything to go by it should be really good.

Thankyou for spending so much time on creating mockups as detailed and thought out as these. Andrew can use all the help he can get in this department. (i mean that in a nice way)

I wonder wether he will pick up the subtle hints in the menus to "new features" such as savable user presets for the UI.

GrtZ

JW

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Allright.

Its clear Shadow's ui is the best proposal so far.

I hope Andrew actually makes your UI (not some degraded version; your version exactly) because it looks very well thought out so far. Clear menu's. Correct descriptive english terms and a logic structuring.

Shadow I hope you will expand it to deal with V3 voxel sculpting abilities soon. Im very curious what you will come up with; if the 2d part is anything to go by it should be really good.

Thankyou for spending so much time on creating mockups as detailed and thought out as these. Andrew can use all the help he can get in this department. (i mean that in a nice way)

I wonder wether he will pick up the subtle hints in the menus to "new features" such as savable user presets for the UI.

GrtZ

JW

smiley_love_heart.gif

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I hope Andrew actually makes your UI (not some degraded version; your version exactly) because it looks very well thought out so far. Clear menu's. Correct descriptive english terms and a logic structuring.

I am making direct painting now. All goes well. Interface is the next step. The only question about this scheme is how to add enable/disable channel switches.

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I am making direct painting now. All goes well. Interface is the next step. The only question about this scheme is how to add enable/disable channel switches.

Andrew, that's like music to my ears. :brush:

Thank you sir, I look forward to seeing those painting tools AND your new interface! :)

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Shadow's UI mockup is very nice and I would like to see most of it implemented as the next interface.

I have one misgiving about it and am in agreement with polyxo: the right side and the tabs is not as free-flowing a workflow as we presently have with those options exposed and ready for use.

For me, that's a bog of a workflow. Messiah has a bunch of blasted tabs and panels and it's irksome when you really are working your way into flow mojo.

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Yeah, that's true. I can do with out it anyway.

I do love the photoshop style interface though, and that is not patented (thankfully).

Andrew, is that the kind of interface you're looking to implement? Or do you have something else in mind? I know you mentioned you liked it, I suppose that's a good sign. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Its getting Photoshopper :)

Imho even 12 items in that Quick access is too much. Good way of controling this kind of menus is not to really click on buttons, but just recognize the directon of mouse movement ... and for human being, it's hard to effectively use more then 8 directions (horizontal, verctical and two diagonals).

Maybe the Layers menu should be redone. There is a lot of wasted space and even full height of monitor can show only "few" layers ... but its also problem of Photoshop itself.

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