Andrew Shpagin

V4.5 BETA (experimental)

2,978 posts in this topic

With specularity blending modes gone in PBR 3D-Coat versions, has anybody tried to load a textured scene that has spec blending applied to one or more paint layers? I'm concerned about backward compatibility of the PBR version with some scenes created in 4.1.x-.

I'm going to check this out later, but maybe some of you guys already did it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With specularity blending modes gone in PBR 3D-Coat versions, has anybody tried to load a textured scene that has spec blending applied to one or more paint layers? I'm concerned about backward compatibility of the PBR version with some scenes created in 4.1.x-.

I'm going to check this out later, but maybe some of you guys already did it?

here is reason Andrew sent me during alpha stage concerning gloss blending modes removal:

(seems introducing metalness complicated stuff a little bit...)

For example painting with just metallness without gloss change is very problematic because pixel opacity is common for both gloss and metalness. It is treated as common reflectivity channel.
I removed gloss operation because gloss/met is applied with per pixel opacity, so next layer g/m overwrites previous one with alpha blending.
I may generally restore blending modes for gloss, but Imagine - how to fit it in UI... Even now is ugly.
Then blending for metalness required as well.
So I don't even know what to do...

 

 

Hopefully solution will somehow manifest itself....

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Artman.

In general, I think re-introduction of glossiness blending modes would be a bad idea, because things finally work as they should now (glossiness of a layer overwrites, with alpha-blending, the glossiness of lower layers). However, some kind of legacy solution would be welcome. I think most of us have some older projects "put away for finishing later" stacked up on our disks. If they contain paint layers with some kind of glossiness blending modes, then I suspect there might be a problem loading them correctly. I didn't try loading such projects yet, so I don't know what happens if I do so, but I assume that nothing good. I already ran into a destructive bug when loading an old project in which I didn't even use glossiness blending modes. The bug manifests itself with glossiness permanently disappearing from all layers, after visibility of one of them is changed.

 

A quick and simple legacy solution, off the top of my head, might be to allow people to keep two versions of 3D-Coat installed in different folders, and using different directories to store their settings. This would eliminate the need of juggling with 3D-Coat versions and settings just to work on older scenes in 4.1.x.

Edited by ajz3d
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A quick and simple legacy solution, off the top of my head, might be to allow people to keep two versions of 3D-Coat installed in different folders, and using different directories to store their settings. This would eliminate the need of juggling with 3D-Coat versions and settings just to work on older scenes in 4.1.x.

 

BIG +1

 

to install every version in own folder, yes !

 

user/doc/v4.1 folder

and

user/doc/v4.5 folder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I didn't try loading such projects yet, so I don't know what happens if I do so, but I assume that nothing good. 

personnaly i would  merge down the gloss layers ,but I have no projects currently using gloss blending modes anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

personnaly i would merge down the gloss layers (...)

Okay, but this is a destructive action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, but this is a destructive action.

well ultimately they are gonna be collapsed anyway,no one uses blending modes with multiple gloss maps in rendering engines.

(unless you set some nodes to do that but I think its very unlikely usage of gloss in the Industry(game/films) althought I might be completly wrong there...) Anyway, if you still want to work on older work in progress projects and fiddle with PBR at te same time I can see how it can be a real problem,it would be great if they were compatible,I did not try either anyway so I dont know what happens.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing was changed in LWO export/import, so it is strange.

Could be good if you will check beta2 - will it really export?

Write me to support@3d-coat.com

double checked it, in Beta2 it works, in Beta 3 don't.

sent you a mail with the files.

 

Greets Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey folks, 

 

Is there a way to turn metalness off when painting? I'd be great if you could just paint roughness / gloss. I guess you can do it by having a layer with metalness set to 0 but that seems a bit odd. Is there any chance theres going to be a metalness sphere next to the gloss, colour and bump icons?

 

Loving the beta!

 

All the best

 

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well ultimately they are gonna be collapsed anyway,no one uses blending modes with multiple gloss maps in rendering engines.

(unless you set some nodes to do that but I think its very unlikely usage of gloss in the Industry(game/films) althought I might be completly wrong there...) Anyway, if you still want to work on older work in progress projects and fiddle with PBR at te same time I can see how it can be a real problem,it would be great if they were compatible,I did not try either anyway so I dont know what happens.....

Ultimately you collapse paint layers, yes. But the subject of our little discussion are scenes with unfinished textures that were painted in 4.1.x and which include glossiness blending modes. Having to flatten the glossiness of all layers just to continue the work in 4.5.x would make finishing up textures unnecessarily harder. :)

Fortunately, I don't recall using other blending modes than Alpha Blending, so I guess I should be okay if this is a default blending mode now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a seriously big problem with materials created prior to Beta 3. Materials do not show up if they were made prior to Beta 3. Their folders show up, but none of the materials are there. Whether you have them installed from a previous build, or create a 3DCPack and install them, doesn't matter. They still do not show up.

 

 

EDIT: They should be marked or somehow indicated that they are either 4.1 or 4.5 materials that way we know what they are, and if they need converted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What can I do to get this back?

 

post-12523-0-49327700-1420402567_thumb.j

 

Deleting options.xml doesn't help, but deleting all preferences does populate the list. However, I'd like to avoid the latter, so maybe someone knows which xml file is responsible for this list?

---

 

Okay, never mind.

I deleted user\3D-CoatV4\Temp directory and it worked. The list was repopulated with icons and text.

Edited by ajz3d

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PBR painting is great so far, but I am starting to be concerned (still as a new user of sorts) that some how one of the biggest pulls for grabbing 3d coat is going to be lost in the process.

I am specifically referring to that hand painted "blizzard" style of texture painting that 3d Coat has in part become known for. Quite a few Blizzard artist use 3d coat for just that. With the current PBR setup I cannot find a way to have the old diffuse/spec shader enabled. This means when painting black values you get light grey because of the PBR, nor will you get accurate representation of the texture itself. Am I missing something?

If its completely gone in with the push to add PBR, then could it be perhaps added in the same way one would toggle voxels with surface (pbr vs non-pbr), or just have a separate room for it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a seriously big problem with materials created prior to Beta 3. Materials do not show up if they were made prior to Beta 3. Their folders show up, but none of the materials are there. Whether you have them installed from a previous build, or create a 3DCPack and install them, doesn't matter. They still do not show up.

 

 

EDIT: They should be marked or somehow indicated that they are either 4.1 or 4.5 materials that way we know what they are, and if they need converted.

Use Edit->Convert materials

PBR painting is great so far, but I am starting to be concerned (still as a new user of sorts) that some how one of the biggest pulls for grabbing 3d coat is going to be lost in the process.

I am specifically referring to that hand painted "blizzard" style of texture painting that 3d Coat has in part become known for. Quite a few Blizzard artist use 3d coat for just that. With the current PBR setup I cannot find a way to have the old diffuse/spec shader enabled. This means when painting black values you get light grey because of the PBR, nor will you get accurate representation of the texture itself. Am I missing something?

If its completely gone in with the push to add PBR, then could it be perhaps added in the same way one would toggle voxels with surface (pbr vs non-pbr), or just have a separate room for it?

This is known problem and 4.5. will not be released without solving this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PBR painting is great so far, but I am starting to be concerned (still as a new user of sorts) that some how one of the biggest pulls for grabbing 3d coat is going to be lost in the process.

I am specifically referring to that hand painted "blizzard" style of texture painting that 3d Coat has in part become known for. Quite a few Blizzard artist use 3d coat for just that. With the current PBR setup I cannot find a way to have the old diffuse/spec shader enabled. This means when painting black values you get light grey because of the PBR, nor will you get accurate representation of the texture itself. Am I missing something?

If its completely gone in with the push to add PBR, then could it be perhaps added in the same way one would toggle voxels with surface (pbr vs non-pbr), or just have a separate room for it?

 

Hi! As a work you can bake/import an AO map and then turn on flat shade, and it still looks as you would expect from the old method. Blacks are black, etc.. Hope that helps.

 

EDIT: The AO map is only so you can see the details more clearly, other things could help too but AO gives a pretty clear picture of the model, with most models that I've done this with since the PBR build came out. Of course, it wont work exactly right with everything though.

 

Use Edit->Convert materials

This is known problem and 4.5. will not be released without solving this.

 

Hey Andrew. I have done that already. Sorry, I guess I didn't convey it well, but my real point was that there should be an indicator for what each material is, somehow. There are lots of people with libraries of materials before 4.5, and it would be good to mark the older ones some way. That way for people not using the forum here and not knowing that they need to convert them, if they need/want to will know that it is possible. Even if it's through a tooltip popup specific to pre-4.5 materials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrew, is there some way to move the Curves Popup panel to a dockable panel, and/or some more permanent place for it? It really gets in the way when you're painting or sculpting, especially if you're moving upward to the right. It's a pain in the butt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Import model for PPP

3DC 4.5B3 add uvset name = OBJECT to every new model imported.

attachicon.gifObject.jpg

please confirm, ty

It also adds this Object in the Retopo Room. You can observe it in the bake options window, where you choose texture resolution.

---

Name Correspondence for Baking still doesn't seem to work!

Edited by ajz3d

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Not working UV room.

In the UV window is not displayed.

Beta2 working UV room. 

Edited by steelbug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also like to add a small request to have the TAPER modifier (recently added) panel to be brought up with a Hotkey and/or dockable. Oftentimes, when using this, many adjustments will need to be made, and it starts to become a pain to have to reach up in the UI to invoke the panel/options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello k0sa,

3DC is not a free tool, and 4.5 is a free upgrade to existing users. In that article at the bottom it clearly states the price of a licence. As we've already done with 3DC, if you don't have a licence you can run it as a trial version.

The author seems to have written from the perspective of an existing user, so I could see how you might get confused. If you feel mislead you should contact the article's author.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry i read this news: http://www.cgchannel.com/2015/01/pilgway-releases-free-beta-of-3d-coat-4-5/ an  i was thinking this is free beta, but when i install i have information "30 day trial". 

I thought their wording might confuse or mislead some. Free Beta makes it sound like what Quixel was offering with it's suite, during it's initial Beta period. Not the same thing, here. Nothing on 3D Coat's end to suggest that it's free to the broader public. Just a free update to current license holders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is known problem and 4.5. will not be released without solving this.

 

Thanks Andrew, that is music to my ears. =)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites