Jump to content
3D Coat Forums
Psmith

Time for a Tablet Version of 3D-Coat?

Recommended Posts

Just look at the specs and price on this tablet by nVidia:

 
 
It already runs Unreal Engine at high frame rates (Tim Sweeny endorses it).
 
It comes with a pressure sensitive stylus - and at an astounding price of $299 from Amazon. (I'm not a representative or stock holder).
 
Has all the power needed to run a "Sculpting & Painting" version of 3D-Coat - and such a version could be a first choice among artists and amateurs, alike.
 
What do you think?  Has the time finally come?
 
This would open up a new stream of revenue for Pilgway.
 
 
Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aleksey:

 

I'm afraid you are wrong on this point.  Here is an entire article which focuses on the behavior of the PRESSURE SENSITIVE nVidia Shield Stylus.  Architects testify to its usability.

 

Also, the Shield is much more powerful than either of the tablets you mentioned (even though they could be used with a tablet version of 3D-Coat) - especially for the ideal use of an application like 3D-Coat:

 

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2015/02/12/architects-directstylus/

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry. But why should I work on a postcard?

3D-Coat is not a playing app. It is a professional application. Why is zBrush not on a tablet? Because of the same reason.

 

So my answer for your question: I am shure the time will come sometime, but I don't see it yet.

 

For me it is more important to have a stable and bugfree 3D-Coat currently.

 

EDIT: What about a microsoft surface tablet? Just start 3D-Coat there and you have it.

 

My two cents

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taros:

 

I'm not really thinking about this tablet option for a professional, like yourself - but rather as a universal platform for developers of all ages.

 

Why does Pilgway need this market?  Because the so called "professional market" for 3D applications is shrinking rapidly with the advent and improvement of many high functioning free tools like Blender.

 

There is an enormous and untapped market for young "developers" who much prefer the portability of a tablet - and the tablets are getting faster and more powerful (rivaling many desktop and laptop systems) - much more suitable for 3D asset creation and even tablet based game creation.

 

The Microsoft Surface Pro 3 is far too expensive and is actually much less powerful than this $300 tablet - and cannot handle the processor demands that 3D apps require.

 

I think for any manufacturer of 3D software to survive, they need to seek out and develop for this burgeoning market of tablet users.  Even Autodesk realizes this fact and has more than a few serious products designed to be used on tablets.

 

Just go to your local computer super center and see what is happening to innovation for desktop and laptop computers - it is dying a slow death.  Sony no longer makes any of these things, so dismal were their sales.  They see the future correctly - as do many of the larger hardware manufacturers.

 

An 8" screen is quite a bit larger than any postcards I have seen or purchased - a bit of an exaggeration there, Taros.  Yet, an 8" screen and the under one pound weight of the Shield - with high performance stylus seems ideal to me for sculpting with voxels or dynamic subdivision - as well as for Autopo and high end texturing - in any location, whatsoever.

 

So, while such a tablet may not meet your super demands, it can even serve a multitude of purposes for many professional artists - at a very affordable price.

 

Pilgway needs the revenue, believe me.

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, from a development standpoint - a huge application like 3D-Coat requires a very large team (now 13 in number) to properly maintain and advance this professional application.  I've been waiting for a bug free 3D-Coat for many years now - and it is still a work in progress.  Large development teams are becoming unwieldy in the extremely competitive environment of professional 3D application development.  Very expensive, too.

 

When fewer and fewer licenses of professional CG apps are being sold - and fewer and fewer high end desktop workstations are being made, improved and sold - while the number and power of tablets and tablet apps is growing and advancing - requiring much smaller teams to maintain and advance the growing number of software titles - why not consider development for this market as a viable target?

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting looking tablet. If it ran Windows I would be on it like a rat up a drainpipe.

Coincidentally I bought an Asus vivotab note 8 today. I needed an 8 inch windows tablet for my Fuel 3d scanner so I can get out in the field and scan things.

 

I was going to go for something simpler but when I discovered this little beaut had Wacom tech built in, was capable of running Zbrush and only cost £172 including shipping, I had to get it.

 

http://www.asus.com/Tablets_Mobile/ASUS_VivoTab_Note_8_M80TA/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What beauty, indeed!

 

At such a price, who would hesitate?

 

Of course it is not designed for high end graphics - only 1.3 ghz atom based processor (though quad core).

 

And, I'm just not sure Windows is the most efficient operating system for streamlined tablet-designed apps.

 

Let us know what your Zbrush experience is.

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As nice as these portable devices are, you really want to be able to throw as much hardware horsepower you can at applications like 3D Coat, ZBrush, Mudbox, etc....especially graphic cards. CPU's and GPU's really need to breathe. Laptops are close enough to desktop capability for most cases, but even they come up way short of what the desktop can do. Pads just aren't there yet, even if you can run ZBrush or 3DC on them. Running the app and working on a decently complex scene is something totally different. Just my 2 cents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been using 3D Coat on my Surface Pro 2 for over a year now so we already have a tablet-friendly version.  And it works wonderfully, too.  True, it is not ideal for this sort of work, but for fairly straightforward models that are not too heavy memory-wise, it does quite well.  I find during sculpting, it will begin to drop frames between 12-15 million triangles.  Also, it can get bogged down in the paint room when the .3b file size begins approaching 1 gb.  I bought the surface after looking at the Wacom Cintiq Companion and decided it was too expensive.

 

Also, the Shield is not close to as powerful as the Surface is.  The shield has only 16 gb of hard disk space.  My surface has 128 SSD and they go as high as 512.  Also, Surface RAM is 4 gb instead of 2.  Screen size is also 10 in. instead of 8.  Surface pro 3 is 13 in.

 

So, in this way, I can do basic modelling on the go and reserve my heavier models for when I'm at the desktop.  I can also send the completed models to my desktop wirelessly and implement them into scenes in my renderer with remote desktop software and start a render remotely, as well.  I find this to be a very valuable process.

 

I would recommend it for this not just for modelling, but also drawing applications like Manga Studio.

 

Now that there are tablets with full pro versions of Windows, it wouldn't make sense for Pilgway to offer an Android version of 3DC.  If anything, they would only have to optimize the interface a bit for a high-res, smaller screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Psmith: From the point of view to publish 3D-Coat to a more casual public and make it more famous in this way and at least make more money I agree with you. You explained all arguments that are good for making such decision.

 

But I am shure it is too early. The only way to do this is to expand the team by adding people who are responsible for a tablet version only. And I am shure pilgway is not at this point yet.

 

About the "postcard": It was just a metaphor. :)

 

Best wishes

Chris

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is too early to start marketing such an Android application - but the trend toward tablets, specifically Android tablets is clearly visible.  I have read favorable views regarding the Surface Pro 3 - and nearly bought one, myself - but the stylus action seemed pretty laggy to me.  It wasn't designed for graphics applications, specifically - and is a more "general" computer.  Still, quite nice - though very expensive for a high end model  (around $1700).

 

At $300 for such a powerhouse like the nVidia Shield - pressure sensitive stylus included - this also indicates the trend toward powerful and inexpensive tablets - made for 3D rendering and other performance heavy 3D tasks.  (Today I see on nVidia's own site, the Shield selling for $199 - sold out, of course) Edit:  this price is for the Shield Portable, sorry.  Unbelievable!  Did I mention it is CUDA specific?

 

Here is a Tech Radar review of this device:

 

http://shield.nvidia.com/store/portable

 

If a specific version of 3D-Coat were designed for Android - eliminating the more technical functions (saving these for the desktop version) - yet retaining the revolutionary functions like voxel sculpting, dynamic subdivision sculpting, AUTOPO and texturing - the present specs for the Shield would be more than adequate for the task.

 

So, if Pilgway wants to arrive near the front of the pack with an Android-specific app, it would need to begin post haste.

 

I do agree with you, Taros - they probably cannot sacrifice the resources to do this, at present.  Unfortunate situation.  Not much chance to take the lead, here.

 

Just look at what the competition has already produced - 123D Sculpt+ - absolutely amazing for an Android app.  And, it seems Autodesk is poised to continue to develop newer and better products for this platform.  

 

The big guys win, again?!!!

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

do you have a shield tablet?

 

you keep insisting that its pressure sensitive. But it has no digitzer, so it's pressure sensitivity is spotty at best... since it uses the surface area of the pen nib on the glass to determine pressure apparantly..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aleksey:

 

It's up to you whether you believe what you read or not.  Seems you'd like an argument or something.  Be happy . . .   or not.

 

The architect interviewed in this article testifies to the utility and sensitivity of the stylus:

 

http://blogs.nvidia....s-directstylus/

 

The precision and responsiveness was evident as I began to model,” Ryan said. “The angled tip is soft and moves fluidly across the screen, giving the right pressure sensitivity when modeling objects.

 

 

I tend to believe what the man says.

 

Also, in the article you linked to in your argument against the performance of the stylus, it also testifies to the usefulness of the Shield's stylus pressure sensitivity (achieved through the processor and software)

 

http://www.slashgear...eview-29338977/

 

What NVIDIA has achieved with DirectStylus 2 is frankly astonishing. Given the sticker price of the SHIELD Tablet, and the absence of an active digitizer, you’d be forgiven for assuming the bundled pen would inevitably disappoint.

 

 

I don't own one, today - but I might pick one up to use in conjunction with the 123D Sculpt+ to Maya LT 2016 pipeline.

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taros:

 

I'm not really thinking about this tablet option for a professional, like yourself - but rather as a universal platform for developers of all ages.

 

Why does Pilgway need this market?  Because the so called "professional market" for 3D applications is shrinking rapidly with the advent and improvement of many high functioning free tools like Blender.

 

There is an enormous and untapped market for young "developers" who much prefer the portability of a tablet - and the tablets are getting faster and more powerful (rivaling many desktop and laptop systems) - much more suitable for 3D asset creation and even tablet based game creation.

 

The Microsoft Surface Pro 3 is far too expensive and is actually much less powerful than this $300 tablet - and cannot handle the processor demands that 3D apps require.

 

I think for any manufacturer of 3D software to survive, they need to seek out and develop for this burgeoning market of tablet users.  Even Autodesk realizes this fact and has more than a few serious products designed to be used on tablets.

 

Just go to your local computer super center and see what is happening to innovation for desktop and laptop computers - it is dying a slow death.  Sony no longer makes any of these things, so dismal were their sales.  They see the future correctly - as do many of the larger hardware manufacturers.

 

An 8" screen is quite a bit larger than any postcards I have seen or purchased - a bit of an exaggeration there, Taros.  Yet, an 8" screen and the under one pound weight of the Shield - with high performance stylus seems ideal to me for sculpting with voxels or dynamic subdivision - as well as for Autopo and high end texturing - in any location, whatsoever.

 

So, while such a tablet may not meet your super demands, it can even serve a multitude of purposes for many professional artists - at a very affordable price.

 

Pilgway needs the revenue, believe me.

 

 

Greg Smith

 

The professional market is shrinking rapidly, and tablets are rivaling desktop/laptop systems in terms of performance? That sounds like voodoo :D. Any data to support this? 

 

The new Tegra X1 sounds amazing, but 3dcoat running on lollipop with an 8 inch screen would make no sense to me. I'm not sure how many art assets you've shipped with tablets or tablet pcs before, but for me it's none. My current fujitsu tablet pc (wacom digitizer) can run all 3d and 2d software, because its using windows os. Would I want to use a 12 inch screen for anything other than basic 2d or 3d for hours on end? Absolutely not. My experience might be different though, so have you used any current mobile software on a tablet to create some really cool art assets? 

 

Which serious Autodesk products are currently running on mobile? Also, how much revenue are those products producing? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rebellismo:

 

I was not trying to influence or convince professionals like yourself with the notion that the growing market for devices and compatible software is and will be leaning toward portables -  tablets, specifically.  People like yourself do not need convincing.

 

My point was really attempting to reveal this growing market of portables vs. laptops (Sony has completely abandoned their laptop lines) and desktops - as it relates to future market share.

 

Portables, which started out as mere consumer devices have now been recognized as a valuable means for producing serious content of all kinds.  Musicians - serious musicians - have, for years now - been using iPads for the commercial production of music titles. Some serious 2D and 3D artists have also been using tablets, for a shorter time - to produce serious, commercially aimed art.

 

 Autodesk would not be investing in this present and future technology, if they did not see the potential for future profits.  They are, in essence, cultivating that market with free products like 123D Sculpt+ and others - understanding that the consumer marketplace is becoming more sophisticated in their desire to be creative developers, as well as passive consumers of 3D content.

 

Tim Sweeney, CEO over at Unreal has invested a substantial amount of money in the form of development resources - aimed specifically at the emerging nVidia line of portable devices.  He would not take these steps if he did not believe the investment was a good one.

 

The emerging market of young, amateur developers are all completely tethered to portable devices for everything they do.  This trend will not reverse - but it will grow stronger.  Their eyesight is still good and accustomed to doing things in a visually compact environment.  More than that - nearly everything they do, digitally speaking, is done on portable technology.

 

Those software manufacturers who ignore the trend toward tablet power and price - are ignoring the direction both amateurs and professionals are increasingly following and adopting - and most importantly - these manufacturers are neglecting the future viability of their own enterprises.

 

It is true that a small company like Pilgway lacks the significant resources to start a new product line like the one I am suggesting.  A new product line is what I am suggesting, by the way - not a porting of 3D-Coat - as it is now - to a portable device.  That, indeed, would be an insane proposition.  Voodoo, as you put it.

 

Some software manufacturer - such as AutoDesk - will probably be the first to develop, introduce, promote and SELL such a tablet-based line of serious 3D authoring software titles. In my opinion, this is a tragic statement and proof that little fish are being swallowed by the very big fish - along with their innovations - at an alarming rate.

 

The opportunity for a small company like Pilgway, nevertheless, exists today.  Competition is a good catalyst for innovation - and financial success.

 

I'd rather cast my vote for the success of a small software company - than a giant one.

 

If you really want to see the glaring evidence of the shrinking market for professional grade software titles - all you have to do is look at the shrinking budgets for the manufacturers of professional grade hardware.  Professionals cannot use the software without the hardware to match.  There have been articles - for years now - broadcasting the shrinking profits for professional grade devices - showcasing the makers of both desktop and laptop computers, combined.

 

Look it up and see for yourself.

 

 

Greg Smith

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rebellismo:

 

I was not trying to influence or convince professionals like yourself with the notion that the growing market for devices and compatible software is and will be leaning toward portables -  tablets, specifically.  People like yourself do not need convincing.

 

My point was really attempting to reveal this growing market of portables vs. laptops (Sony has completely abandoned their laptop lines) and desktops - as it relates to future market share.

 

Portables, which started out as mere consumer devices have now been recognized as a valuable means for producing serious content of all kinds.  Musicians - serious musicians - have, for years now - been using iPads for the commercial production of music titles. Some serious 2D and 3D artists have also been using tablets, for a shorter time - to produce serious, commercially aimed art.

 

 Autodesk would not be investing in this present and future technology, if they did not see the potential for future profits.  They are, in essence, cultivating that market with free products like 123D Sculpt+ and others - understanding that the consumer marketplace is becoming more sophisticated in their desire to be creative developers, as well as passive consumers of 3D content.

 

Tim Sweeney, CEO over at Unreal has invested a substantial amount of money in the form of development resources - aimed specifically at the emerging nVidia line of portable devices.  He would not take these steps if he did not believe the investment was a good one.

 

The emerging market of young, amateur developers are all completely tethered to portable devices for everything they do.  This trend will not reverse - but it will grow stronger.  Their eyesight is still good and accustomed to doing things in a visually compact environment.  More than that - nearly everything they do, digitally speaking, is done on portable technology.

 

Those software manufacturers who ignore the trend toward tablet power and price - are ignoring the direction both amateurs and professionals are increasingly following and adopting - and most importantly - these manufacturers are neglecting the future viability of their own enterprises.

 

It is true that a small company like Pilgway lacks the significant resources to start a new product line like the one I am suggesting.  A new product line is what I am suggesting, by the way - not a porting of 3D-Coat - as it is now - to a portable device.  That, indeed, would be an insane proposition.  Voodoo, as you put it.

 

Some software manufacturer - such as AutoDesk - will probably be the first to develop, introduce, promote and SELL such a tablet-based line of serious 3D authoring software titles. In my opinion, this is a tragic statement and proof that little fish are being swallowed by the very big fish - along with their innovations - at an alarming rate.

 

The opportunity for a small company like Pilgway, nevertheless, exists today.  Competition is a good catalyst for innovation - and financial success.

 

I'd rather cast my vote for the success of a small software company - than a giant one.

 

If you really want to see the glaring evidence of the shrinking market for professional grade software titles - all you have to do is look at the shrinking budgets for the manufacturers of professional grade hardware.  Professionals cannot use the software without the hardware to match.  There have been articles - for years now - broadcasting the shrinking profits for professional grade devices - showcasing the makers of both desktop and laptop computers, combined.

 

Look it up and see for yourself.

 

 

Greg Smith

 

Greg, I fully realize that most people can get away with a nice tablet nowadays rather than a desktop computer. That's perfectly fine. Most people use these devices for social media, video, messaging, and light games. Whereas we tend to use technology to create, and our needs are 100x times of what a regular person needs. If you look at all the tablets out there today, how many of them use the awesome Tegra X1 chip? Have you tried deploying the Unreal Engine Temple demo on a mid level tablet? It lags quite a bit on a 2nd gen Nexus 7. Not a good experience at all. There are thousands of android devices being activated daily, but most won't have super chips in them. 

 

I haven't really noticed a shrinking market in either pro software or pro hardware. I have noticed more growth though, and more exciting devices like the htc vive and microsoft's hololens. If I had to go back to the hardware/software that we used 10 years ago, tears would surely come out :D. Tablets will get more powerful in time, but the point of convergence is not quite there yet. Especially not on android or ios tablets, which lack over 95% of pipeline development tools. 

 

Having said that, would I want a "portable" 15 inch digitizer tablet running a solid os with the ability to work with Houdini/Unity/3dCoat/etc ? Absolutely.

 

-Luke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could do it now with a cloud service like Otoy's ORBX format.  With this 3D-Coat runs on a server in the cloud and gets displayed on the tablet.  You would still have some issues with screen real estate though.  :)

 

http://home.otoy.com/stream/orbx/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just hope that developer of 3dcoat will focus on the app instead of adding a new branch for tablet devices.

3dcoat is million years on late on what Zbrush offers for modeling/sculpting so i would liketo see some more progress on the app, i would agree with a free educational version of 3dcoat, and to open the app to thirdparty developper so this could maybe help to improve 3dcoat and make it more polyvalent that it is right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuzzz:

 

I don't think you have anything to worry about.  Andrew and his team have no intention of deviating from their current path - professional application development.

 

I just wanted to point out the current and future trends that the majority of the consuming and creating public seem to be following - and with the trends go the dollars - and after those  dollars go the manufacturers of digital everything.

 

 

Greg Smith

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greg thx for you fast reply,  i appreciate you suggest such of future possibilities for 3dcoat , but i am not sure it would not impact the development of the main application, i would really like this to be possible, but even if there is more new recrute on the staff, and a new branching and new type of customers would by the way give you the twice the work that is ncessary right now to progress on the current build.

i really think that open 3dcoat to thirdparties developpers is a best thing that could happen to 3dcoat and his staff ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3d coat indeed needs to stay the course and catch up with Zbrush in several areas.

 

It needs some kind of poly/spline hair system

It needs to perfect autopo to the point where zbrush is now.

 

I would be very nice if it had a poly tool kit like Zbrush is developing. 

 

 

Tablets? meh...not yet, not for another 3 or 4 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

why not use an app like teamviewer app to connect to a monster machine from whatever tablet you like?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/25/2015 at 3:53 PM, Taros said:

Sorry. But why should I work on a postcard?

3D-Coat is not a playing app. It is a professional application. Why is zBrush not on a tablet? Because of the same reason.

So my answer for your question: I am shure the time will come sometime, but I don't see it yet.

For me it is more important to have a stable and bugfree 3D-Coat currently.

EDIT: What about a microsoft surface tablet? Just start 3D-Coat there and you have it.

My two cents

Chris

Post card? I happily use 3D-Coat on my tablet (2-in-1) with a 15.7" screen. "Tablet" doesn't mean tiny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 29.12.2017 at 8:58 PM, philnolan3d said:

Post card? I happily use 3D-Coat on my tablet (2-in-1) with a 15.7" screen. "Tablet" doesn't mean tiny.

It was in 2015 I posted this... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×