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Use Render Room for a "scene setup"


mkdm
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Hi everyone and 3D-Caot team.

Good morning.

In the last weeks I looked for an answer to this question, but without success.

I hope that someone can help me and teach me the right direction.

Here's the thing. :

How can I use the Render Room for a "scene setup" in order to perform some quick renderings directly inside 3D-Coat ?
I mean, the "scenario" is like this one:

1) I have a bunch of models UVed and textured separately in 3D-Coat.
I exported every single objects and textures from Paint Room.

2) Then I create a new blank project in 3D-Coat and jump into Render Room

The question is : How can I import all the objects that I previously textured and exported from Paint Room ?
How can I put all this objects together into the same scene and perform a simple scene setup (positioning every object with move,rotate,scale) ?

I did't find any good way. I don't know how to do it in 3D-Coat.

Please help. Thanks a lot!

Marco (mkdm)

 

Edited by mkdm
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Hi everyone.

I have revised my previous question in order to make more clear (I hope).

Here's the thing :

How can I use the Render Room for a "scene setup" in order to perform some quick renderings directly inside 3D-Coat ?
I mean, two "scenarios" like these :

1) I have a bunch of models UVed and textured separately in 3D-Coat.
I exported every single objects and textures from Paint Room

OR

I have a bunch of single 3dcoat project, each containing a single model Textured and Painted directly over hires (or even lo-mid res) poly
in Paint Room without the step s of RETOPO and UV.

2) Then I create a new blank project in 3D-Coat and jump into Render Room

The question is : How can I import all the objects that I previously textured and exported from Paint Room,
or the single painted hires model contained in each separate 3dCoat project ?
How can I put all this objects together into the same scene and perform a simple scene setup (positioning every object with move,rotate,scale) ?


I need this super fast and easy workflow in order to perform quick and dirty concept rendering, without the need to
spent time to, for example, setup a Blender scene or export to other external renderer.
This is very important to me at this time.

I did't find any good way. I don't know how to do it in 3D-Coat.

Please help. Thanks a lot!

Marco (mkdm)

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Hi


All paint objects can be imported in Paint Room using the import command, for selection/transform use Tweak room.

In Sculpt Room use the new command Import Multiple Objects or with RMB over the layer select Import 3B file.

You can move it with transform command as always.

ImportMultiple.jpg

3B file.jpg

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Hi Carlosan and thanks a lot fro you help.

But....I've tried many times with many different approaches and the only one that I could make it work is this :

1) I do retopo,uv and painting each object separately in a new 3d-Coat project each
2) I export each painted object using "NONE" preset and selecting these maps for export : AO, Normal Map (tangent), Albedo, Metal, Rough (using Rough/Metal workflow)
3) I create a new blank 3D-Coat project
4) Jump into Paint Room
5) Import the first painted object with "File -> Import model for per pixel painting"
6) Leave all default features except : Keep UV to Yes and Lock Normal to Yes
7) Now in layers Tab I DELETE each layers except Layer 0
8 - Now I import the second painted object with "File -> Import object"
9) Leave all default features except : Keep UV to Yes and Lock Normal to Yes
10) Now in layers Tab I DELETE again each new layers except Layer 0

Now I have only a Layer 0 that contains all geometry

Now I can use the menu "Texture -> Import " (color/rough/metal/normal/AO) and chose the UV set of the first imported painted object,
and finally I use the menu "Texture -> Import " (color/rough/metal/normal/AO) and chose the UV set of the second imported painted object.

In this way I have the two painted objects together into the same scene and now I can setup the scene and do some quick rendering.

Now my questions are :

1) Is there an easy and faster way to do the same thing I described ?

2) How can I do the same thing, that is setup a scene with multiple painted object, with HiRes model painted directly over mesh without
doing Retopo/UV ? This is the most important thing for me now.
I need it in order to produce fast and good renderings of concept models without loosing time with UV and Retopo,
but using 3D-Coat to directly paint over HiRes voxels.


Please help.

Thanks a lot.

 

Marco (mkdm)

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Are you using latest 4.7.35 version ?

If the mesh and the textures are in the same folder, everything -mesh and textures- are loaded automatically in Paint Room.

Same as High mesh with polypaint, can be imported in Sculpt room using surface mode.

If you need a fast visualizer to drag and drop lot of meshes where to blend High, Mid and Low polymesh... 3DCoat is not the best suited app to perform that operations.

Industry standards are Clarisse, Fusion 9, Keyshot... as examples.

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Hi Carlosan.

Thanks a lot for support.

@You : "...If the mesh and the textures are in the same folder, everything -mesh and textures- are loaded automatically in Paint Room...."

The workflow I told you with my previous mail is correct ?

I mean, export the painted objects using "NONE" preset is correct ?

@You : "...Same as High mesh with polypaint, can be imported in Sculpt room using surface mode...."

Could you please explain what is the command to perform in order to import high polypainted mesh  ?

A little video could be very helpful for me.

At the moment I cannot afford the purchase of other products, but in my current pipeline I have 3D-Coat, InstantLight, Blender and Thea Render.
InstantLight promised some times ago to provide a gfast way to render directly High mesh painted in 3D-Coat, but for the moment it seems 
that this feature is missing.

So for IL, blender and Thea I need to retopo and UV the models and then paint them.
But this is too time consuming for fast concept rendering.

The perfect solution for me now could be to polypaint directly over High-poly mesh in paint room, assemble some painted objects
and render directly inside 3D-Coat.

For the moment I don't need Photorealism for concepts but easy and quick results.

Thanks a lot.

I stay tuned.

Marco (mkdm)

 

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export the painted objects using "NONE" preset is correct ?

Sure.

The perfect solution for me now could be to polypaint directly over High-poly mesh in paint room, assemble some painted objects and render directly inside 3D-Coat.

3DC added a new option to use external render engines, the first integration is Renderman but please feel free to email support@3dcoat.com asking for Thea Render exporter for 3DCoat.

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Hi Carlosan and good morning.

First of all I wish to thank you for your kind and prompt support.
Much appreciated :)

For a better help I recap here my current config :
3D-Coat 4.7.35 in OpenGL64
Windows 10 Pro 64Bit English
Intel i7-7700K 4.2 - 4.5 Ghz
32 Gb DDR4 Ram 3000 Mhz dual channel
Overclocked Gtx 1080 Ti


With that said, I tell you that I tried to follow your suggestion about importing textured object in Paint room and so on,
but I have to say that I didn't understand correctly some of your suggestion.

For what I've seen with the quick test I've made, the only workflow that does what I want do to is this :
1) Retopo a Hi-res mesh or use directly a low-poly obj
2) Apply UV to it
3) Paint in Paint Room
4) Export each objects with textures (AO, normal, rough, metal, albedo), each with its unique UV set name
5) Open New 3D-Coat project
6) Import all painted objects
7) Delete ALL layers except Layer 0
9 - Load each single texture for each object, using each UV set name.
10) Finally I can setup the scene and perform a quick render in render room

Now, this works, but it's NOT what I'm trying to do.
I'm not so familiar with 3D-Coat and I still don't know all its workflow.

As I said in my previous messages, I'm looking for the fastest way, with acceptable results, to produce
quick and good enough renderings of concepts modelling or 3D art.
Without the need to achieve Photorealism. So, the built in 3D-Coat's renderer is enough for this pourpose.

But the crucial point is this :
I don't have to spent time to Retopo and UV.
Because if I have to do these steps I loose every advantages of doing quick works and I'm forced to follow the traditional workflow, Retopo-Uv-Paint-Export-Render in external Renderer.
I already know how to do these things.

I'm looking for a good way to perform this particular workflow :
1) Having a sculpt Hi-Res mesh in 3D-Coat or import a Hig-res mesh into it
2) Painting and texturing directly over the Hi-res mesh inside 3D-Coat WITHOUT the need to Retopo and UV
and without the need to export the objects and textures outside of 3D-Coat
3) Jump into Render room, setup the scene and perform quick renderings.

Nothing more than that.
At this stage I don't want to use any external tool (Blender and so on...)

But, I don't know which is the correct workflow to follow inside 3D-Coat in order to achieve what I aim.

For example, I tried to paint directly into Paint Room over a Hi-res mesh but the problem is that when I choose any "Smart material"
I see it correctly trough the preview window, but when I apply it to the mesh, it's always in wrong scale and the Bump or normal map of that material
it's never applied an all look flat and grainy.

I've also tried to paint over Hi-res mesh using one of the option present in startup screen but with the same bad result.

Please, help to find the correct workflow, if possible to achieve this : Paint directly over Hi-Res mesh with all "Smart material", setup a scene
and render directly inside 3D-Coat without the need to export hings outside of 3D-Coat.
This is the only way I can follow at the moment in order to help me in my actual situation : produce fast concept rendering using the painting abilities of 3D-Coat.

 

Any tutorial or other kind of help would me much appreciated.

Thanks you very much for support.
 

Have a nice day.

Marco (mkdm)

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The workflow you mentioned is how 3DC currently works.

There is no other way since the software is not designed as a container.

There is not a limitation. The software is not designed for this function as if it is for example Marmoset Toolbag.

Allow me to present these examples,

- In Paint Room there is no individual shading system per object, the system is global and does not allow paint on a mesh using PBR R/M shading and over another using G/C or G/M.

- You can not interact at the same time with meshes in Paint Room and Sculpt Room, as they are independent rooms there is no global manipulator.

Note: there is a feature request open for this issue

0001141: A unified Outliner to replace the currently fractured data management

- Any object imported into sculpt room loses its uvs information. Sculpt room is designed to Sculpt only.

- At Sculpt Room you can not paint and sculpt at same time.

Note: there is a feature request open for this issue

0001830: Sculpt and Paint at same time

Due to the linear methodology of work it is necessary to perform retopo and baking to go to the painting process, this is how it works.

This process is detailed in the video attached previously.

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Hi Carlosan.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply.
I first of all want to tell you that I really appreciate your help :)

But...This workflow is driving me crazy... :)

What you wrote me is to search into the whole 3D-Coat Youtube channel.
I thank you for help, but it's a too huge stuff to watch. It takes a huge amount of time.

Also I already know Alien Minefield's tutorials but the problem is always the same : all that stuff requires the usual workflow, that is Retopo-UV-Painting.

I absolutely need to learn how to directly painting over Hi-Res mesh without Retopo and UV but having the Samrt materials applied correctly with normal and
the correct scale.

I've found these 3 tutorials :

 

 

 

Is this the right direction ?

Please, help me to find a suitable way to achieve what I'm looking for.

Thanks a lot.
I stay tuned.

Marco (mkdm)

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For example, I tried to paint directly into Paint Room over a Hi-res mesh but the problem is that when I choose any "Smart material"
I see it correctly trough the preview window, but when I apply it to the mesh, it's always in wrong scale and the Bump or normal map of that material it's never applied an all look flat and grainy.

Exactly, this is how the polypaint function works. Bump or normal map of that material it's never applied.

About detail, you need an object with high density of vertices for detail to be appreciated. Vertex density will determine the resolution at which you can paint.

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Thanks a lot for continuous support :)

@You : "...Exactly, this is how the polypaint function works. Bump or normal map of that material it's never applied..."

So, there's no way I can be saved from the hated Retopo-UV ?

In my previous message I talked about Vertex Painting ?
Is that way suitable to achieve what I want (Paint directly over hi-res mesh with all painting details such as normal map, bump, etc...) ?


My serious problem is that I absolutely need to find a fast workflow to render Hi-Res painted objects in order to produce a decent amount of concept rendering
 as quickly as possible all inside 3D-Coat.

I know that you are a master in workflow. Please help to find a suitable way to achieve this.
If Vertex Painting is the way, please tell a good complete tutorial too learn how to use it.

Thank you very much!!

Marco (mkdm)

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In my previous message I talked about Vertex Painting ?
Is that way suitable to achieve what I want (Paint directly over hi-res mesh with all painting details such as normal map, bump, etc...) ?

Yes, when you paint directly into Paint Room over a Hi-res mesh you are coloring vertex attributes directly on a 3D polygon mesh.

It is similar to a 3D paint tool but operates specifically to vertex data rather than texture maps.

 

Let me add Blender wiki as external reference (bold type is mine)

Vertex Painting is a simple way of painting color onto an object, by directly manipulating the color of vertices, rather than textures, and is fairly straightforward.

When a vertex is painted, the color of the vertex is modified according to the rules of the ‘brush’. The color of all visible planes and edges attached to the vertex are then modified with a gradient to the color of the other connected vertices. (Note that the color of non-visible faces are not modified).

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Can this workflow help your work ?

On 7/10/2016 at 10:58 PM, AbnRanger said:

PBR Shaders are not the same as PBR Smart Materials. PBR Shaders are just that... a shader, which has and needs no UV's. It's applicable ONLY to high-poly/voxel sculpts/objects, that reside in the Sculpt room. If you have a low-poly original that fits the sculpt fairly close, you can import that into the Retopo room (as your Retopo Mesh/Low Poly baking target) > Click SNAP in the Commands section of the tool panel, to make it snap to the surface of your sculpt. If it snapped OK, then go to the BAKE menu (Retopo Room) > Bake to PPP w/ Normal maps > once baked, 3D Coat sends a copy of the low poly mesh to the Paint workspace with all the baked maps assigned to paint layers.

PBR Shaders have no paint layers....however, you can paint directly on your voxel/surface model with paint layers. This is a way to bypass the whole Retopo > UV process and just paint on the high poly sculpt. You can use the same paint tools and paint layers, either way. And later on, if you want, you can bake both the Vertex paint and your PBR Shaders onto your low poly model.

 

 

 

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Thank you very much Carlosan!!!

Based on what you told me and a brief look to some tutorial and a quick experiment that I made, I think that PBR Shaders + Vertex Painting it's the only way to go for me in order to achieve what I'm trying to do.

ASAP I'm going to watch more in depth the tutorials and study these things and making some practicing.

I hope to be able in few days to start the production of very fast and quick 3D-Coat renderings of concept models and some 3DArt (for fun).

Currently into my pipeline I use this different tools to create the starting meshes to work on inside 3D-Coat :
1) 3D-Coat sculpt room itself
2) Moi 3D, an excellent Nurbs cad for artists and designers (and sporadically also Rhino V5/V6 WIP)
3) NVI/RocketrF, a very powerful low-poly/Subdivision surface modeler

For what  I've tried so far my intention is to use this particular workflow :
1) Export the base mesh from one of the above tools (Moi3D, ect...)
2) Import the base mesh into the 3DCoat's Sculpt Room in order to use it as a base mash to build a very high mesh model
3) Do sculpting
4) Apply base shaders
5) Painting in Paint Room
6) Render inside 3D-Coat

I hope that this workflow can give me good results with getting rid of the whole too time consuming Retopo-UV phase.

Furthermore, because I'm one of the beta tester of InstantLight from its earlier beta stage, I hope that they will soon implement one of the
most interesting announced  features for it, that is Bridge to 3D-Coat and the chance to directly import inside IL the Hi-Poly mesh
painted in Vertex Painting from 3D-Coat and directly render them in realtime inside IL.

This is one of the most wanted feature of IL, IMHO.

Do you have any suggestion about how to use the couple "3D-Coat + Instant Light" at the best ?

I think that IL, it's a very promising realtime renderer even if it has still bugs here and there and must have better and more intuitive workflow, and coupled with one (or more) Gtx 1080 Ti it can really offers impressive results, much much better than Toolbag.
But, this is only a very personal opinion.

Thanks again for all you kind support!

I stay tuned.

Ciao!

Marco (mkdm)

 

Edited by mkdm
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You welcome Marco.

About 3DC <> IL integration, please contact Michael. He has better knowledge about development plans that me.

I dont know what design are you thinking of doing, but thinking in fast approach may be you can model-sculpt each part separately, assigning each layer a sculpt shader different.

Is not as good as paint-sculpt at same time, i know. But may be this workflow acan help.

Best

CA.

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Hi Carlosan.

@You : "...Is not as good as paint-sculpt at same time, i know. But may be this workflow acan help."

Yes. I thought so too!

Maybe another good way especially for mechanic-style concepts, could be to use the "Vox Hide" tool coupled with Objectify-Hidden in order to
slice and cut a base model and apply different shaders to each piece.

I have to try.

About integration with InstantLight, yes, for sure I will ask to Michael. Thanks again.

I Will let you know the results of my experimentation!

Have a nice day.

Marco (mkdm)

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Hi MKDM

Have you tried working with PTEX within 3DCOAT?

You can avoid UVs with this method as well and render out using Renderman which is now supported in the 3DCOAT render room. You will have to have the latest build of Renderman installed on your machine though. Elsewhere on these forums are instructions on how to set that up and utilize it. Good luck and have fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, EmperorHamHam said:

Hi MKDM

Have you tried working with PTEX within 3DCOAT?

You can avoid UVs with this method as well and render out using Renderman which is now supported in the 3DCOAT render room. You will have to have the latest build of Renderman installed on your machine though. Elsewhere on these forums are instructions on how to set that up and utilize it. Good luck and have fun.


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Hi EmperorHamHam.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion! ASAP I hop to find some extra spare time to test also PTEX workflow.

Thanks.

Marco (mkdm)

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