Pinch me and tell me this isn't real! Andrew please read!

[photosw]

I have had a long time user from this forum assist me in my journey to become someone who can animate and create 3D Models.  They have been the greatest help and have become a great friend.  I posted in the forums and seemed a little off and it enticed them to help.  We have spent hours on Skype and in amusement about the issues that I have with this program.  

A part of the problem was me learning the process.  There are no really great " go to" guides out there and so many Youtube videos are way too long winded or are referring to anything else but what your question is.  So, I was enticed to see a program that is supposed to be like "Photoshop".  A program that I am highly familiar with.  So I buy it and because of my helper from here, I had many people I know buy it as well.

I must say that this has been a terrible experience.  My models almost always end up in outer space.  Sometimes, it has been so bad that I cannot get them back in by Zero-ing the 3 axis back.  My menus constantly jump around and when not even touched.  Autopo is very shameful.  I import models and after selecting them, the open file comes back over and over despite selecting a mesh to import.  The program will just lock up out of nowhere and not while performing heavy operations.  Symmetry, lets not even start on that topic.   It is pitiful that I have to use other programs to do certain features of this program.  The list of errors etc that I have, well I could go on forever.

Andrew, dear owner of this company.  You have a good overall idea for a product.  However, from reading your posts, you are too worried about "new content".  I am ashamed to refer the people I did to buy this product.  I do not understand how someone who talks about being Christian on their bio, can be so absorbed in not knowing what the people who puts food on his table want.  There are many people who are lost and give up on your program because bugs are not fixed.  You run a business and need to be aware of other functions besides "cool new features".  People are wasting hours of personal time and getting frustrated because the program has bugs.  It is not cool to do to people.  We shouldn't have to find work-arounds.  Customer loyalty is about having a reliable and pleasant experience.  We do not get that from this program.  I want a working program and I don't want to have to switch.  I am at wits end after experiencing a menu glitch that wont let me make a model symmetrical because I cannot even get to symmetry.  Please think of others and your customer base.  This experience has been pitiful!

 

[Carlosan]

To get better feedback please contact directly Andrew Shpagin at

support@3dcoat.com

[houGenie]

Sure bugs to solve is really important. I am sure the developers do their best to solve them. Luckily I did not encounter many of them, for example I use the symmetry function very often and like it. What errors did you get there? 

It is important to use some relative new drivers and the newest version of 3d coat. 

Saying that,  what I really would like is new better brushes in voxel mode and adaptive voxels or how do you call them, analog to live clay. Blocking in 3d coat is fantastic and I would like to stay in voxel mode till the end, it is much more powerful. 

By the way, write down your errors here, other users are perhaps to be able to help you. 

[photosw]

Hell Hougenie.  Symmetry for me is often thrown off without doing anything to adjust it.  I can bring a model in and save a file.  With checking symmetry before exiting the program.  Upon reloading the file, symmetry will be off.  Last night, I could not even click the menu for symmetry.  Today, I get on and cannot even use any of the tools on my model despite being able to select them.  The model loads fine and is able to move around freely.  My PC is only a few months old and I am not having issues with any of my other 3D related programs.  

[Tony Nemo]

Does your cursor change to the desired alpha (brush) when you hover over the object? If not, deleting Options.xml may be the solution.

[photosw]

20 hours ago, Tony Nemo said:

Does your cursor change to the desired alpha (brush) when you hover over the object? If not, deleting Options.xml may be the solution.

No I didn’t delete option but after reopening five times, it works again.  I’ve been testing things in controlled ways to see if user errors but some items I am familiar with and should not be having issues.I also have great help from a user who is highly known on this forum.  We have been having fun learning limits etc and what triggers errors in the program.  I truly hope we can write a mini guide to help others after all of this.  I will delete the options file next time I have an issue.

Edited January 8, 2018 by photosw

[AbnRanger]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:13 AM, photosw said:

I have had a long time user from this forum assist me in my journey to become someone who can animate and create 3D Models.  They have been the greatest help and have become a great friend.  I posted in the forums and seemed a little off and it enticed them to help.  We have spent hours on Skype and in amusement about the issues that I have with this program.  

A part of the problem was me learning the process.  There are no really great " go to" guides out there and so many Youtube videos are way too long winded or are referring to anything else but what your question is.  So, I was enticed to see a program that is supposed to be like "Photoshop".  A program that I am highly familiar with.  So I buy it and because of my helper from here, I had many people I know buy it as well.

I must say that this has been a terrible experience.  My models almost always end up in outer space.  Sometimes, it has been so bad that I cannot get them back in by Zero-ing the 3 axis back.  My menus constantly jump around and when not even touched.  Autopo is very shameful.  I import models and after selecting them, the open file comes back over and over despite selecting a mesh to import.  The program will just lock up out of nowhere and not while performing heavy operations.  Symmetry, lets not even start on that topic.   It is pitiful that I have to use other programs to do certain features of this program.  The list of errors etc that I have, well I could go on forever.

Andrew, dear owner of this company.  You have a good overall idea for a product.  However, from reading your posts, you are too worried about "new content".  I am ashamed to refer the people I did to buy this product.  I do not understand how someone who talks about being Christian on their bio, can be so absorbed in not knowing what the people who puts food on his table want.  There are many people who are lost and give up on your program because bugs are not fixed.  You run a business and need to be aware of other functions besides "cool new features".  People are wasting hours of personal time and getting frustrated because the program has bugs.  It is not cool to do to people.  We shouldn't have to find work-arounds.  Customer loyalty is about having a reliable and pleasant experience.  We do not get that from this program.  I want a working program and I don't want to have to switch.  I am at wits end after experiencing a menu glitch that wont let me make a model symmetrical because I cannot even get to symmetry.  Please think of others and your customer base.  This experience has been pitiful!

 

Wow. I would try to help address some of the issues you mention, but something tells me it would do no good. You seem to have already made up your mind, even questioning Andrew's character, implying that his efforts as a developer are contrary to his Christian faith. That's way over the line, IMHO. I have no trouble importing models or using Auto-Retopo. It's not perfect, and could use some improvements, but there are MANY times it does such a good job, that I have to giggle a little bit. No matter what app you use, you have to learn what tools you need for the job and how to use them most efficiently. There is no shortage of videos covering Auto-Retopo, by different authors, and if you know how to use it, you can indeed get good results from it. 

But, it's not always the best tool for the job. Sometimes, taking shortcuts can make a simple task harder than it needs to be. Some retopo tasks are actually faster and easier to get the desired result by using MANUAL Retopo tools. For example, if you are trying to create a game ready model, then Auto-Retopo probably is not the right tool for the job. In other circumstances, it's the perfect tool to use.

Are there some quirks in 3D Coat? Sure, but I usually just email Andrew and let him know about them. If it's a critical problem, he usually will get right on it, no matter who asks him. But, what you aren't considering is the fact that he has dozens and dozens of requests DAILY....he's being pulled in many different directions, between bugfixing and responding to user requests. All the while, he's trying to please the userbase and prioritize things on the TO DO list. Your claiming that he's not being a true Christian because he "doesn't know what the customers want" is highly offensive and I suggest you apologize to Andrew for that. He doesn't deserve that sort of abuse.

[Ballistic_Tension]

Just wondering which version your using ? (I am using ver. 4.7.07 stable)  I Have been using this program a few years and it takes a while to get it . I also get aggravated almost every time I use it but just use it for what works for you and expand out.  I for one like it when one speaks there mind I do not see it as good or bad  right or wrong  just your opinion and I respect that .  3DC is pushing forward  adding a new thing and breaking others then fixing them such is Beta.  I myself  would rather have a less Latest and Greatest  and a full stop  and just fine tune  what  we have now  . It is a great program just keep at it .Heck it took me 3 years to get the hang of Blender and before that was Fractal Design  .  

[photosw]

4 hours ago, Ballistic_Tension said:

Just wondering which version your using ? (I am using ver. 4.7.07 stable)  I Have been using this program a few years and it takes a while to get it . I also get aggravated almost every time I use it but just use it for what works for you and expand out.  I for one like it when one speaks there mind I do not see it as good or bad  right or wrong  just your opinion and I respect that .  3DC is pushing forward  adding a new thing and breaking others then fixing them such is Beta.  I myself  would rather have a less Latest and Greatest  and a full stop  and just fine tune  what  we have now  . It is a great program just keep at it .Heck it took me 3 years to get the hang of Blender and before that was Fractal Design  .  

That is what I was doing was speaking my mind and just trying to get Andrew to slow down is all.  I have tried support a couple times and had no response.  Honestly, I love the control of the program.  I mentioned I had a really advanced user from this forum helping me on Skype and evening witnessing stuff I have been doing and having problems with.  So I do have a fact checker for my actions lol. 4.8.07 is the version I am using.  I do not know how to go back per se to the version you are using. BLENDER AGHHHHHHH LOL.  You are absolutely correct this has a great framework already and so many tools.  We just need it to work consistently!

[photosw]

15 hours ago, AbnRanger said:

Wow. I would try to help address some of the issues you mention, but something tells me it would do no good. You seem to have already made up your mind, even questioning Andrew's character, implying that his efforts as a developer are contrary to his Christian faith. That's way over the line, IMHO. I have no trouble importing models or using Auto-Retopo. It's not perfect, and could use some improvements, but there are MANY times it does such a good job, that I have to giggle a little bit. No matter what app you use, you have to learn what tools you need for the job and how to use them most efficiently. There is no shortage of videos covering Auto-Retopo, by different authors, and if you know how to use it, you can indeed get good results from it. 

But, it's not always the best tool for the job. Sometimes, taking shortcuts can make a simple task harder than it needs to be. Some retopo tasks are actually faster and easier to get the desired result by using MANUAL Retopo tools. For example, if you are trying to create a game ready model, then Auto-Retopo probably is not the right tool for the job. In other circumstances, it's the perfect tool to use.

Are there some quirks in 3D Coat? Sure, but I usually just email Andrew and let him know about them. If it's a critical problem, he usually will get right on it, no matter who asks him. But, what you aren't considering is the fact that he has dozens and dozens of requests DAILY....he's being pulled in many different directions, between bugfixing and responding to user requests. All the while, he's trying to please the userbase and prioritize things on the TO DO list. Your claiming that he's not being a true Christian because he "doesn't know what the customers want" is highly offensive and I suggest you apologize to Andrew for that. He doesn't deserve that sort of abuse.

1. Not necessarily giving up.  Have tried support and get zero response.  I mentioned having a very advanced and reputable member from here helping me.  He is aware of what issues I have that are "me" generated and what are odd instances and software based.  You assume I am making negative comments to his Christian faith.  I am Christian and that is why I want to be loyal to his product.  I just want him to see that as a leader (company owner), that you can't always do everything and have to rely on your people (employees).  This has the potential to be such a great product.  There is no argument that many things are great about the program.  It is hard to determine text and what people are thinking on the other side.  I was literally laughing about my experiences because it got to the point I was having so many weird issues that it couldn't be real.  A video is not going to help me when I have someone watching my screen and my movement, but it works just fine for them.  

I kind of think the first argument in the next paragraph is just an attempt to defend.  (Not being rude here).  A program should do what it is supposed to do.  If I want to do something a way that might take longer, that is what I paid to do.  That is the power of the customer.  There have been many mentions on here and some people don't waste time to complain, that they have left because of such issues.  If anything, I want the program to prosper because of the potential it has.  Regardless, there are laws etc about faulty products for a reason.  Many are fine with not having the newest features if it works and that is the way laws and purchase agreements work.

I hope this clears things up.  I would apologize if that was my intent to degrade him but it was not.  It was just saying that as a business owner, you have obligations to your community.  Be balanced and don't let just your own desire (programming new features) takeover responsibilities to get in the way of making an experience the way it should be.  It will provide a better business model in the long run.