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new video possibilities Zbrush 3.5


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Here a new video capabilities of version 3.5 of ZBrush, this vaguely remember something, don't you? it also shows that 3DCoat is followed with some interest by Pixologic...

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=074539

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yep its very impressive as usual. still the leader in 3d sculpting and marketting. That planar brush looks to be easy to add hard edge details.

I wonder how mudbox users feel seeing how the upgrade price for mudbox is high and zbrush keeps adding new features for free.

I'm glad 3dc is still offering something different to those two and keeping the price in a good range.

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Yes indeed, masterpiece graphics, but... my 2 cents follows.

The game industry might have peaked, most notably with world-economic conditions. Choose your own adjectives for world economic conditions. The "West" has clearly reached it's slash-and-burn economic peak, of commerce and industry-- It is simply speaking "unsustainable", because it exports jobs to repressed regions and imports unsustainable debt.

The stronger future for the world and for 3d is reality based: general-arts, building, manufacturing, science-modeling, etc... Implications regarding - 3DC vs Zbrush--

IMHO-- (I'm still pre-newbie in both 3DC & Zbrush because my living is more reality based and less character-modeling-- So i'm still 99.9% formZ) My promo is more content based and less graphically-perfected. I continually intend to learn these aps, but in a different context other than character or game modeling. (Kudos to gamers with good content, but i speak for reality modelers and the need for more youth to consider this growth field). I find reality more amazing than fantasy. See my self-promo site of a multi-disciplined-generalist http://harmoniouspalette.com/

3DC is on the better path because material organization is more resonant with cartesian-cubic modeling... My perception of voxels is ultra-high-res block building, albeit with some spline-controller-tools and visualizers... Zbrush by comparison seems to be entirely based on splines (versatilely-distorted-spheres). BTW, i love splines as an essential step in model conceptualization. Spheres no dobt adorn reality, but perhaps space is cubic. Perhaps both are essentials.

Both aps use texture painting and offer a sensation of using air-brushes or concrete-sprayers. Both aps provide remarkable painting, mapping and texturizing effects. This falls short of reality-based uses, unless a way to output useful 3D data is given. Such that a user can detail texture for rapid-prototyping or realtime-analysis. Such that models can be exported even to FEA and multi-scientific uses-- Texture in terms of real 3D is ultimately important, in terms of modeling. 3DC seems a clear winner in this regard, at least in terms of the development strategy.

Yet my perceptions could indeed be flawed. Always grateful for better insights and higher wisdom ;-)

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Pixologic could market the dickens out of a moldly slice of bread.
Yes, as someone who was curious to see what they were offering in this new update I felt like my intelligence was insulted by their 3.5 vids. I would love to see that done.

I learned my lesson well not to talk to much about an other 3D sculpting application in this forum, which is right...in some strange kind of sight. But come on guys, did anyone of you ever switched that thing on you're talking about? If not, please don't flame an App you didn't really know! I'd read many forum posts in ZB Forum about 3DC and be sure there were NEVER such negative posts. It's up to you "fighting" for 3DC in the way you want but please do a fair one! I'm a ZB user over years and I love 3DC too. Why not taking out the best of both? For me there is no reason for fighting one against the other...

Rene

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:drinks: :drinks: :drinks:

Yeah..please no fighting..those features are cool.It is not something

to dismiss.I agree tough that 3DCoat needs crazy good timelapses made by very experimented artists in the game industry.It would help a lot.

(and Cuffins Ive seen some pretty harsh comments from zb users about 3DCoat too...I guess it is a geek thing,like xbox vs ps3...I mean one can get both ,so why fighting)

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:drinks: :drinks: :drinks:

Yeah..please no fighting..those features are cool.It is not something

to dismiss.I agree tough that 3DCoat needs crazy good timelapses made by very experimented artists in the game industry.It would help a lot.

(and Cuffins Ive seen some pretty harsh comments from zb users about 3DCoat too...I guess it is a geek thing,like xbox vs ps3...I mean one can get both ,so why fighting)

There can be only one!

Wait, wrong movie.

There can be only one software on the internet.

One key on each keyboard.

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:drinks: :drinks: :drinks:

Yeah..please no fighting..those features are cool.It is not something

to dismiss.I agree tough that 3DCoat needs crazy good timelapses made by very experimented artists in the game industry.It would help a lot.

(and Cuffins Ive seen some pretty harsh comments from zb users about 3DCoat too...I guess it is a geek thing,like xbox vs ps3...I mean one can get both ,so why fighting)

Right... :good:

I think that should not that hard to do... Because we're talking about timelapse videos of an App it's easy to get some nice video material. But we would need some cool music and voice(s) too. And not to forget...kinda script. AbnRanger has started a thread about this. Maybe he should give it a more content related name and we can collect all good ideas there?

What do you think?

Rene

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I learned my lesson well not to talk to much about an other 3D sculpting application in this forum, which is right...in some strange kind of sight. But come on guys, did anyone of you ever switched that thing on you're talking about? If not, please don't flame an App you didn't really know! I'd read many forum posts in ZB Forum about 3DC and be sure there were NEVER such negative posts. It's up to you "fighting" for 3DC in the way you want but please do a fair one! I'm a ZB user over years and I love 3DC too. Why not taking out the best of both? For me there is no reason for fighting one against the other...

Rene

Where did you hear me knock ZB regarding its merits? I just happen to think their new feature videos are over the top. I could see if they covered every new feature together, in one video, but they make a major deal out of every single one in their own separate video. Have you ever listened to a new or used car salesman? You know then how much of a production they make out of every little thing on a car. Pixologic is the same, in my opinion. You may like all of that...which is fine, but from my vantage point, it's super-cheesy.

And for as many people who promote ZBrush on this site, hosted by one of its chief competitors, I think I'm entitled to refrain from the ZBrush lovefest that goes on here.

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Where did you hear me knock ZB regarding its merits. I just happen to think their new feature videos is a lot to do about very little. I could see if they covered every new feature in one video, but they make a major deal out of every single one in their own separate video. Have you ever listened to a new or used car salesman? You know then how much of a production they make out of every little thing on a car. Pixologic is the same, in my opinion. I guess you happen to eat it up...that's fine, but from my vantage point, it's super-cheesy.

Mmmh no...it is not a "very little" feature they've implemented and pushed a lot, it's a new sculpting and rigging technique in ZB based on ZSpheres. By the way, this is not the only new feature they've promoted.... And don't forget, this update is free so they do the videos not for sale primary but for informing the users about new features coming. It's like the car salesman will promote a new car that he will give to you as a gift because you've bought your old one in his shop... :lol:

I don't know why you always be that harsh...ZB lovefest....come on man, relax! We're talking about features...you're talking about fighting...this is no battlefield, it's 3D sculpting...

As you can see in my previous post I referred to your thread to push 3DC video forward...so I'm on your side... :air_kiss:

Rene

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zBrush is market leader for a reason. It may have a weird UI but the features are Damn good. Something that annoys me with 3DC is often things dont feel finished. I guess thats the price we pay for direct access to betas. When I demoed Mudbox last I was dissapointed by the lack of functionality but one thing that hit me was that it felt Solid. I'd happily sacrifice some of the newer 3DC features for something faster and more polished.

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I don't know if I'd say "damn good", but I will admit one thing about 3DC. I was thinking today about how I see bugs posted, even for the release versions, every day. I was just wondering how that looks to people checking it out or trying the demo version. It would be nice to see some time spent really focusing on bugs until we don't see them reported quite so much.

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zBrush is market leader for a reason. It may have a weird UI but the features are Damn good. Something that annoys me with 3DC is often things dont feel finished. I guess thats the price we pay for direct access to betas. When I demoed Mudbox last I was dissapointed by the lack of functionality but one thing that hit me was that it felt Solid. I'd happily sacrifice some of the newer 3DC features for something faster and more polished.

+1

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For a software that I haven't paid for upgrades for in over 6 years I'd say pixologic is more than entitled to make their marketing as slick as they want. They already got me as a customer a long time ago so whatever it takes to get new ones is fair game for them.

As an existing zb user who has used zspheres quite a bit already this is pretty impressive stuff, and I didn't even listen to the voice in the vid. I'm just talking about what I saw. Zspheres are what I was using before 3dcoat as I wanted to find a way to have to do less polygon modeling up front. Voxels definitely trumped the old zspheres in terms of potential. But the new stuff looks as if it may just leapfrog voxels. I won't be sure until I use them myself though. Whatever flaws they do have I'm sure I'll find them. One thing I know I won't do is favor any app in particular due to customer loyalty or not having bought the other. I'll simply use what I think is the best tool for the job. Advantages of having both and not caring who wins any software wars.

Zbrush should very much be talked about in this forum. It is the only real competition to 3dcoat as far as sculpting goes. A lot of what is in 3dc now is there because zbrush users asked for it too.

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For a software that I haven't paid for upgrades for in over 6 years I'd say pixologic is more than entitled to make their marketing as slick as they want. They already got me as a customer a long time ago so whatever it takes to get new ones is fair game for them.

As an existing zb user who has used zspheres quite a bit already this is pretty impressive stuff, and I didn't even listen to the voice in the vid. I'm just talking about what I saw. Zspheres are what I was using before 3dcoat as I wanted to find a way to have to do less polygon modeling up front. Voxels definitely trumped the old zspheres in terms of potential. But the new stuff looks as if it may just leapfrog voxels. I won't be sure until I use them myself though. Whatever flaws they do have I'm sure I'll find them. One thing I know I won't do is favor any app in particular due to customer loyalty or not having bought the other. I'll simply use what I think is the best tool for the job. Advantages of having both and not caring who wins any software wars.

Zbrush should very much be talked about in this forum. It is the only real competition to 3dcoat as far as sculpting goes. A lot of what is in 3dc now is there because zbrush users asked for it too.

well spoken! :good:

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I've always been impressed with good "packaging" and product aesthetics. Pixologic has gotten better and better at presenting their product in the best possible light.

I don't know about you, but when I go to the store, (usually some kind of consumer electronics store), I'm greatly influenced by the aesthetics of both the product packaging and the product, itself. Just look at how Apple has become the successful company that it is, mostly based on what their products look and "feel" like. Have you ever bought a "high-end" Apple product? Just look at the expense they put into the packaging, alone! I bought one of the earliest Macintoshes because it was so simple and aesthetically pleasing, both to look at and to use.

After all, most of us are "graphics" people who entered the field because of our attachment to "the way things look". If you are trying to sell a product or a service, you better put a great deal of your effort into shedding the best possible light on what it is you have to sell.

Those ZBrush videos are absolutely excellent, from a marketing perspective - and, truthfully, that is all that matters with regard to successful sales. I'm also one of those very early ZBrush adopters, and all I can say is that Pixologic has been polishing and refining that application, and the presentation of that application, with great success, year after year. I mean the way the UI looks, feels, the way the brushes "feel" - it's all aesthetics - and good ones, tasteful ones.

I'll do everything I can to influence Andrew in following as many of these exceptional application development and marketing techniques as his budget will allow.

Greg Smith

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Those ZBrush videos are absolutely excellent, from a marketing perspective - and, truthfully, that is all that matters with regard to successful sales. I'm also one of those very early ZBrush adopters, and all I can say is that Pixologic has been polishing and refining that application, and the presentation of that application, with great success, year after year. I mean the way the UI looks, feels, the way the brushes "feel" - it's all aesthetics - and good ones, tasteful ones.

Actually I'd say word of mouth is pretty important too, if not more so. So if you have a bad product and really fancy advertising I have a feeling the sales will drop off quick. Of course at big studios it's usually not the users who're making the purchase decisions. Thus it's not always the best app at every studio. I'm not usually fooled by fancy packaging. Yes I have an apple product, a 1st gen iPhone, and yes it did have a fancy package, but I didn't even know about that until after I paid and they handed it to me. I bought it because it was a good product. I would never buy one of their computers though, the package may look fancy, but personally I don't like what's inside.

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Phil:

You may represent one of the more thoughtful Apple customers. It would appear, however, based on Apple's sales reports, that this may not be the status of most Apple purchasers. I can't think of another company that could get away with some of the stuff, function and value-wise, that Apple has pulled off. I would attribute this marketing audacity to the amount of effort, expertise and money spent by Apple to promote the Apple brand and "image".

Most Apple devotees have "bonded" with the Apple brand, not because it is a superior hardware platform, in many cases, but because of the look, the feel and all the associations that you get when you become a "member" of the devoted Apple audience. You may not have known, in advance, what that iPhone packaging was like, but I'll bet it left a permanent impression in your consciousness about Apple quality standards.

Just ask Guy Kawasaki, long time Apple fellow and the quintessential Apple Evangelist. He'll tell you straight.

In fact, you can see his comments, and those of many other long time Apple followers and participants, about the Apple strategy and success in this Netflix sponsored video, "Welcome To Macintosh". Or, just read about it on this site. And, of course, you can purchase the documentary at your local iTunes store.

Greg Smith

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yep its very impressive as usual. still the leader in 3d sculpting and marketting. That planar brush looks to be easy to add hard edge details.

I wonder how mudbox users feel seeing how the upgrade price for mudbox is high and zbrush keeps adding new features for free.

I'm glad 3dc is still offering something different to those two and keeping the price in a good range.

Very well put... I agree 100%...

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You may not have known, in advance, what that iPhone packaging was like, but I'll bet it left a permanent impression in your consciousness about Apple quality standards.

Actually I thought it came in a nice package, but what really left an impression on me was the fact that I had to exchange my iPhone twice because the hardware was no good. It actually needed a third exchange but my year warranty had just ended so I was stuck with it.

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Phil:

Actually I thought it came in a nice package, but what really left an impression on me was the fact that I had to exchange my iPhone twice because the hardware was no good. It actually needed a third exchange but my year warranty had just ended so I was stuck with it.

But doesn't it just feel so nice in the palm of your hand?

See what I mean,

Greg Smith

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Japanese would buy Apple products even if it was a DS rebadged as Apple DS. Their brand name is so strong in Japan. The number one editing programs are aftereffects and finalcut because most studios have a mac. I dont know why we still keep buying this slow macs for the price we pay we could have gotten a pc 2 times stronger. Lol! The powers that be(my employers) believe in the brand so much. Same for autodesk. Anything Autodesk is quality hence we switch to 3dmax from lightwave. Can't help it though since autodesk can show so many good works from big 3 software.

So packaging and branding counts so much especially to those that have the money. If you don't have money you go for cheaper software(lw,modo,blender), cheaper hardware(linux pc,etc), etc.

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Japanese would buy Apple products even if it was a DS rebadged as Apple DS. Their brand name is so strong in Japan. The number one editing programs are aftereffects and finalcut because most studios have a mac. I dont know why we still keep buying this slow macs for the price we pay we could have gotten a pc 2 times stronger. Lol! The powers that be(my employers) believe in the brand so much. Same for autodesk. Anything Autodesk is quality hence we switch to 3dmax from lightwave. Can't help it though since autodesk can show so many good works from big 3 software.

So packaging and branding counts so much especially to those that have the money. If you don't have money you go for cheaper software(lw,modo,blender), cheaper hardware(linux pc,etc), etc.

I was never making the case that ZB's marketing wasn't good....just that it's just too much in many cases. Trying to make every new little feature seem like a major ground-breaking development is downright cheesy. One rule in design/aesthetics is moderation....hence the phrase "Sometimes less is more." A single video that covered all the new features would suffice.
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For me the most noticeable thing is consistency in those "nice feeling" apps. I mean consistency over all! Let's take Apple for example...in their whole range of products (website included) there is a unique glassy style. Whatever kind of application you get...you're feeling home.

Now take a look at 3DC...the most eye catching thing is this cool green Logo. In this forum I'm feeling home because of the green and grey color theme. Where are these colors in the app itself? Nowhere! This in my oppinion is a simple example of what we (and Andrew) have to do to improve 3DC look and feel BEFORE we start making nice Promo Vids. Creating a unique style telling everyone "this is 3DC".

@AbnRanger

I'm a little bit tired of your ongoing cheesy ZB marketing flaming thing... I mean are you serious? The only thing they've done is posting some vids in their forum! No big badaboum! They can post as much as they want in their forum, they can make hours of vids of every single feature they've implemented, so we do in this forum! As I said many times before...please stop this! Be fair! :thank_you:

Rene

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