DRAWINGTANK

Sphere Brush: " Stick to Ground " & " Sphere Depth " and " Make Straight line " Options

18 posts in this topic

Hello Andrew

If you could implement a " Stick to ground " with the option to also " stick to a specific layer " this would speed up things for me a whole lot !

for as it is right now when i try to build volume with the Sphere brush, it is very hard to keep the strokes to stay on the volume as it tends to just go either in to the

object or fly off even though i rotate and do my best to make sure its looks like its following the objects surface :(

and its ok to not stick but sometimes you want it to " stick to whatever is that you are sculpting or a ref. object for that matter "

The Depth control is Very useful to determine how Deep the Sphere's ( Voxels ) are going to go in or just skim along the surface

depth.jpg

The Make straight line option would be very handy for when you are trying to do anything man made, it is much faster than selecting a primitive and merging into the scene

Zbrush now has a new brush called Armature that by pressing a keyboard combination Shift + Alt gives you the capability to make a non-straight = straight by going over with the brush

armaturea.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMQZcBMcEdM

Radial Symmetry... I know it has been mentioned before but it is extremely useful and it really needs to be implemented asap

rsymmetry.jpg

Like in Zbrush 3.5 the ability to move & rotate and scale the Zsketch make for a perfect ( elegant ) solution to rapidly build form so if some how you could do a hybrid of zspheres 2 in voxels so when we create

voxels with the sphere brush " splines or curves are created " in the process, that way we could truly be free to move, scale, rotate and create the most elaborate shapes in seconds !

for the " Pose " tool feels outdated when you compare with the abilities of Z spheres 2

guidelinei.jpg

For me if you implement one of them right now I would choose the " Stick to ground " with the option to also " stick to a specific layer " this is the most urgent for me

below is a movie that shows the features I requested in action

observe how nice the spheres " stick " to the Re. mesh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HznYuqRL9lk

thank you for taking the time once again :rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, or create a new, hybrid tool using the curve tool as the underlying framework, and allow the pressure sensitive input to control the interpolating spline points. Of course, there are some major issues with the fluidity of the splines that needs to be corrected before any of this will be possible (I posted about that earlier today) end tangents need to function correctly, and the interpolation through the points needs to be continuously smooth, not as it is, where it's tightly curved through the point and then suddenly loose along the shallow curved straigh away. it needs to be that we can create flowing curves. I suppose it's similar to the shapes we get with muscles, or the b-splines, but we need more control.

it's all about control

I think you are referring to the embed feature of the depth, which they mistakenly call imbed (or it's a french word? or I'm missing something)... how far above / below the surface is the point.. how embedded is the brush.

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just thinking about how useful this would be just the other day. A brush that lays down an adjustable spline in a stroke would be very handy. The current curves are nice, as is the snake tool, but between the two there does seem to be room for a third tool that creates a stroke along which the curve is generated. The snake tool could also benefit from the 'float' option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just thinking about how useful this would be just the other day. A brush that lays down an adjustable spline in a stroke would be very handy. The current curves are nice, as is the snake tool, but between the two there does seem to be room for a third tool that creates a stroke along which the curve is generated. The snake tool could also benefit from the 'float' option.

EXACTLY!!! I've suggested this a few times... and with the ability to refine this curve by laying down additional strokes of the pen from different points of view...

what I mean is...

lay down the first stoke of the curve, (looks just like a curve on the curve tool, that's fine, but with the size of the points controlled by the pressure)

then each subsequent stroke would be given a weighting...

so that each stroke is averaged, or has a weighted averaging with the final stroke.

you could make it so that the final shape was an average of all the strokes,

or you could make the current stroke equal weighted to all the previous strokes..

1) (stroke 1 + strok 2... stroke n) / n

2) (((stroke 1 + stroke 2... stroke n-1) / n-1 ) + stroke n ) / 2

weighted versions

3) this method allows user to change the weighting for each stroke, to control how much or little each additional stroke will affect the shape of the current curve

Stroke 1:

result = Stroke 1

Stroke 2:

result = ((result * (1-weight 2)) + (stroke 2 * weight 2) / 2

Stroke 3:

result = ((result * (1-weight 3)) + (stroke 3 * weight 3) / 2

Stroke ...n:

result = ((result * (1-weight n)) + (strokee n * weight n) / 2

4) this method would allow user to only control how the previous entire set of strokes compare to the latest stroke

Stroke 1:

result = Stroke 1

Stroke n:

result = (((Stroke 1 + Stroke 2... Stroke n-1) * (1-weight) + (stroke n * weight n)) / 2

the difference is that in method 4, 3DC would have to track all strokes, but in method 3 it could save only the last result, and use the current stroke.

in addition to having the "shape" of the spline be weighted, it would be critical to separate the blending of the spline shape and the pressure weights... thereby allowing the user to separately dial in the thickness properties, and the shape of the curve, or do both at the same time.

in addition, I would highly suggest that the number of points NOT change after the first stroke.... sure let the user add points, since this would be a "CURVE" just like in the current curve tool... but... those points maybe be placed strategically along the length, and if the number of points changes, it could become very frustrating.

On the other hand, I suppose you may want to be able to relax the spline, and re-distribute the points by a smoothing operation (hold down the shift key perhaps?)

I'm going to re-post this exact post on another thread, because it's the same request/topic. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are you looking for a deformer type pose tool modification???

I re-read your original post, and it made me wonder if you were thinking this guide stroke would be used as a posing / reshaping for an entire voxel model?

--- hmmm... if that's the case, that is different than I was thinking (not that my curve2 idea would be un-needed :D it certainly would be needed)

but what I mean is, that is another good idea - a posing tool that uses something similar to maya's bones, and smooth-skin deformation... giving each joint a weighting.

I bring it up like that, to point out that, although the way you describe it, you are requesting a copy of a feature from zBrush, it is, in fact, simply a skeleton type deformer, which - is typical of all animation packages ;) and deformers would be an awesome modelling addition. I use deformers in maya for modelling purposes ALL the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh cakeller I envy you. I wish I have the same English skill level as yours. Can see your super-long posts everywhere. Just kidding :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh cakeller I envy you. I wish I have the same English skill level as yours. Can see your super-long posts everywhere. Just kidding :)

Some might argue that my english skills are very bad because it takes me 3 times as long as others to say something ;)

or --- they might say I am windy

or --- they might say I am full of something

or --- they might not say anything at all ;)

--- but, I have just been very excited about 3DC, and have had some time between projects.

I'm sure I will chill out soon! :) in the mean time, I apologize if I am too passionate about all this cool stuff!

BTW, THIS long post is REALLY a big deal... or rather the sister post... because the editable CURVE-2 as I've been calling it, would be a GIGANTIC AWESOMENESS for sculpting... so I get a little carried away... sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to say these are good suggestions in my opinion, hopefully they will be added. Radial Symmetry definately looks like a very useful feature as do all the others. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

are you looking for a deformer type pose tool modification???

I re-read your original post, and it made me wonder if you were thinking this guide stroke would be used as a posing / reshaping for an entire voxel model?

--- hmmm... if that's the case, that is different than I was thinking (not that my curve2 idea would be un-needed :D it certainly would be needed)

but what I mean is, that is another good idea - a posing tool that uses something similar to maya's bones, and smooth-skin deformation... giving each joint a weighting.

I bring it up like that, to point out that, although the way you describe it, you are requesting a copy of a feature from zBrush, it is, in fact, simply a skeleton type deformer, which - is typical of all animation packages ;) and deformers would be an awesome modelling addition. I use deformers in maya for modelling purposes ALL the time.

Hello and yes thats what i was thinking off... the guide stroke would be used as a posing / reshaping for an entire voxel model

Basically every time you lay down a stroke you can reshape it if you so desire much like Zsphere 2 so there would not be a need for a posing tool for the voxels are already imbedded with this " guide "

this is basically what i requested in another post " sketching in 3d " like I Love Sketch so this is the sister post as cakeller pointed out

" --- but, I have just been very excited about 3DC, and have had some time between projects.

I'm sure I will chill out soon! in the mean time, I apologize if I am too passionate about all this cool stuff! "

No need to apologize ... I am very passionate about 3dc as well and this " openness " in my opinion is what is so special (the collaboration between Andrew and us )

the speed that 3dc is been developed is mind blowing.. just think about how long it takes for pixologic (zbrush ) to come out with an update... years !

" BTW, THIS long post is REALLY a big deal... or rather the sister post... because the editable CURVE-2 as I've been calling it, would be a GIGANTIC AWESOMENESS for sculpting... so I get a little carried away... sorry. "

Agree once again, this 3d Sketch or Curve-2 what ever you wanna call is GIGANTIC AWESOMENESS for sculpting. !

ps: The Depth & " Stick to Ground " for me would be HUGE as well.. there is no "Shame " in taking Great ideas from others as long as you make it " Better "

thanks again for everyone's replies & time :clapping:

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I TOTALLY agree about what you're calling stick to ground. However, to clarify, it is not like the toggle setting that we have that "sticks stuff to objects"

It is, as you've pretty clearly shown with the images above, an OFFSET OR INSET from the surface for the placement of the brush.

There are so many tools this could help

1) voxel pinch brush, right now it smooths and flattens because it's not OFFSET from the surface.

2) how AWESOME would it be to use the INSET (or EMBED , or call it -Offset) from the surface with the sphere tool... instead of adding a half sphere, you add an almost flatish sphere. you could build up smoother strokes, and because the sphere tool is fast... any utility you can give it that doesn't slow it down is AWESOME

3) OR offset the sphere tool from the surface by 1.5x the dimaetter of the sphere... now you're drawing something at a perfect offset--- power lines, hydraulic tubing, whatever... great stuff

4) with the tooth-paste, or muscles, or snakes tools... whooo hoo! would be COOL.

FYI, this functionality is already contained in the merge tool "on pen" the Shift X, Shift Y, Shift Z - albeit a little confusing for a couple seconds, but it's there... so, please just give all that within all brushes! yeah!

:clapping:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys

Brush Depth & Stick to ground is IMO the same thing

When you lay down a stroke with Z Sphere 2 the stroke " Stick to Ground " by default and you can then " refine " the Depth of the Z spheres by the dialogue box shown in the beginning of the post

3DC's Sphere brush is very cool but extremely frustrating at the same time if you want your " Strokes " to "Stick " to the form you already have created.. and not go off " Away " from the form

" There are so many tools this could help

1) voxel pinch brush, right now it smooths and flattens because it's not OFFSET from the surface.

2) how AWESOME would it be to use the INSET (or EMBED , or call it -Offset) from the surface with the sphere tool... instead of adding a half sphere, you add an almost flatish sphere. you could build up smoother strokes, and because the sphere tool is fast... any utility you can give it that doesn't slow it down is AWESOME

3) OR offset the sphere tool from the surface by 1.5x the dimaetter of the sphere... now you're drawing something at a perfect offset--- power lines, hydraulic tubing, whatever... great stuff

4) with the tooth-paste, or muscles, or snakes tools... whooo hoo! would be COOL. "

Agree.. how useful it gonna be :D

Come on Andrew you can do it ! :clapping:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys

Brush Depth & Stick to ground is IMO the same thing

Brush Depth is the control of how much the brush is going to apply (don't use that term, because it gets confused with the already existing setting "DEPTH"

Embedding (how much is something embedded)

Offset (how much is something offset - or in negative, inset - from the surfacE)

but

Stick to Ground (do it, or don't, there's no implication of a quantity... )

It's also a setting used in Snakes, and Toothpaste, so it doesn't makes sense to confuse the two - they aren't the same. Stick to Ground is a behaviour - the stroke sticks to geometry, Embedding is how much the actual geometry is created offset from the stroke by the surface normal. they are two separate characteristics.

Please call it

STROKE - EMBEDDING

or

STROKE - SURFACE OFFSET

and leave Stick to Ground alone because it will confuse the subject and get the request ignored. (A GOOD IDEA REQUEST IT IS, and I WOULD LIKE to see this happen)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think one of the big issues he's going to have is - which direction the offset happens...

sure it makes sense for any of the brush tools, like pince or voxel-shift, pinch etc...

but mathematcially what direction is "UP" when you're not stroking the surface?

so for any tool that ONLY works on surfaces (pinch, draw, etc) then it's no problem, because it doesn't generate geometry.

for any of the tools that can generate geometry out of thin air, the normal vector to offset along is potentially hard to determine.... look at your initial stroke - which way should it embed or offset??? show a mathematical proof that explains a non-ambiguous determination based on the data of the stroke that says - ok, I know which way is up at all times.

As I said, it's mostly useful on the non-CREATING tools anyway - so... the offset shouldn't be hard for that.

for the free-space ones, it's probably more difficult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Andrew

I was wondering if you are going to implement this features we been requesting any time soon ?

thank you for your time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Andrew

I was wondering if you are going to implement this features we been requesting any time soon ?

thank you for your time

Funny I've been gone for 2 months or so - and now, back and looking - and nothing much seems to have changed - except PTex support... seems like most of the requests I would covet have just fallen through the cracks. :(

would be nice if there was a visible todo list.

google has a todo list, and a recently implemented "requests" list... might be useful to acknowledge the requests that will be addressed, and have a list of - "we don't know if these ever will be, if you want these vote for them (with the push-button)" and log ip addresses for the votes, so we can't repeat vote :) not that anyone would :D... sorry - this is off this topic, but really - I feel like none of these important things are even looked at any more... but that might just be my incorrect view for lack of knowing what IS being looked at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrew has said before that the way he works is that he will get inspired to do something and then work on that for a while. That's how voxels came about. During voxel development almost nothing happened with the painting tools.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andrew has said before that the way he works is that he will get inspired to do something and then work on that for a while. That's how voxels came about. During voxel development almost nothing happened with the painting tools.

That's great - so - how to inspire that guy to do this? probably not by whining that it's not getting done. I bet that's just a way to get it NOT done :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Andrew

If you could implement a " Stick to ground " with the option to also " stick to a specific layer " this would speed up things for me a whole lot !

for as it is right now when i try to build volume with the Sphere brush, it is very hard to keep the strokes to stay on the volume as it tends to just go either in to the

object or fly off even though i rotate and do my best to make sure its looks like its following the objects surface :(

and its ok to not stick but sometimes you want it to " stick to whatever is that you are sculpting or a ref. object for that matter "

The Depth control is Very useful to determine how Deep the Sphere's ( Voxels ) are going to go in or just skim along the surface

depth.jpg

The Make straight line option would be very handy for when you are trying to do anything man made, it is much faster than selecting a primitive and merging into the scene

Zbrush now has a new brush called Armature that by pressing a keyboard combination Shift + Alt gives you the capability to make a non-straight = straight by going over with the brush

armaturea.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMQZcBMcEdM

Radial Symmetry... I know it has been mentioned before but it is extremely useful and it really needs to be implemented asap

rsymmetry.jpg

Like in Zbrush 3.5 the ability to move & rotate and scale the Zsketch make for a perfect ( elegant ) solution to rapidly build form so if some how you could do a hybrid of zspheres 2 in voxels so when we create

voxels with the sphere brush " splines or curves are created " in the process, that way we could truly be free to move, scale, rotate and create the most elaborate shapes in seconds !

for the " Pose " tool feels outdated when you compare with the abilities of Z spheres 2

guidelinei.jpg

For me if you implement one of them right now I would choose the " Stick to ground " with the option to also " stick to a specific layer " this is the most urgent for me

below is a movie that shows the features I requested in action

observe how nice the spheres " stick " to the Re. mesh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HznYuqRL9lk

thank you for taking the time once again :rofl:

Hello Andrew !

well I was hoping you could at least implement " soon " the option to " stick to ground " for the Sphere Brush it would be extremely helpful as it would allow the user to use mesh as reference or guide to build form more quickly

Right now it is frustrating that we have no real directional control of the " stroke"... Sphere tool kinda wants to draw staright lines... not very intuitive

PS: it would be very helpful as well if you could add " Depth Control " for the Sphere Brush as well

I hope you get inspired to give this some attention

:D

thank you once again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now