Jump to content
3DCoat Forums

Sculptris - dynamic mesh tesselation


JamesE
 Share

Recommended Posts

Well I'm not trying to be philosophical or anything I'm just repeating what's been said for many, many, years. If you ask someone what an alien looks like or a monster they couldn't tell you, in fact most people couldn't tell you if a moose sculpture is good or not accurately, but we see humans every single day whether it's looking in the mirror or walking through the store or watching TV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

That's the point: "looking in the mirror". I always see something for the first time, thats what I see. Thats why we are in front of so many difficulties trying to model a realistic face. We don't know the 'style'. Its not the comic 'style' there. Its the 'creator' of styles. I have to stop talking :drinks:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

That's the point: "looking in the mirror". I always see something for the first time, thats what I see. Thats why we are in front of so many difficulties trying to model a realistic face. We don't know the 'style'. Its not the comic 'style' there. Its the 'creator' of styles. I have to stop talking :drinks:

So true. When I look in the mirror, I may see this:

post-589-12693776123931_thumb.png

Other days I may see this:

post-589-1269377858047_thumb.png

:yahoo:

P. Monk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
  • Advanced Member

When I create a human head, my friends, who don't do art, know when it doesn't look right, becuase they know what a human looks like.

Anyone with eyes knows what a human should look like. That doesn't mean they know how to go about making one.

The programs brushes feel silky.

The navigation on the right mouse button is nice for the stylus, but not having a hot key to zoom in/out feels like a feature missing. I've only found I can zoom on/out using the mouse scroll which is odd since people will be using stylus's.

I have great hope for the progra, if not for the single reason that the legend Taron is using it and his feed back seems to be taken into account.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

When I create a human head, my friends, who don't do art, know when it doesn't look right, becuase they know what a human looks like.

Anyone with eyes knows what a human should look like. That doesn't mean they know how to go about making one.

The programs brushes feel silky.

The navigation on the right mouse button is nice for the stylus, but not having a hot key to zoom in/out feels like a feature missing. I've only found I can zoom on/out using the mouse scroll which is odd since people will be using stylus's.

I have great hope for the progra, if not for the single reason that the legend Taron is using it and his feed back seems to be taken into account.

Regarding navigation did you enable tablet navigation in the options screen?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
When I create a human head, my friends, who don't do art, know when it doesn't look right, becuase they know what a human looks like.

Anyone with eyes knows what a human should look like. That doesn't mean they know how to go about making one.

Well, I don't...

I copy Alberto Giacometti here, same answer for the same question, sorry for this.

Lets talk about dynamic topology (sculptris)

Voxels is the way to go. Its a 3d grid so you need a more than 5-10M mesh to have some decent crispness. A 100k quad mesh (after retopo) can be more crisp. And this is the way to go (waiting for more powerful machines). 3DC to retopo to zbrush or mudbox or blender sculpt room etc etc. Any surface-sculpt app that can support multi-res meshes. But voxels let you feel more free as an artist. You can project geometry or alphas, can cut huge meshes (like real sculpture). Lets see how sculptris will handle all these 'free' moves...

Andrew, a multi-res surface sculpt room please, with nice tools, AO baking support etc. But there are some other apps for this purpose already. We just have to pay some more money (except blender)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I like this app but the new brush system doesn't seem to be so great as it gives low resolution results even after subdivide. I tried a few things like setting the detail full then subdividing a few times which did not work, high res brushes which made no difference. The only time i get half decent results is if i brush first at low res the subdivide again which gives a better visible result but it's softened and then going up more and painting but still not so great.

The standard tools are great though and it's good to get a bumpy surface etc but in terms of high resolution details it's not so great yet in my opinion but maybe there is some special setting or way to make the brushes to improve it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

Nice esp. for the price! I should probably learn some real sculpting methods and use references...and actually sculpt more often than once a year, but hey, not bad for the first time in the app (and my horrible skill level)- it's that easy to use. I never used the sub-divide button either...I think its a good amount of detail for just 85k in triangles! Did the horrible texture map in Sculptris too...

I couldn't figure out how to zoom with my pen tablet either- I guess I'll have to set up a tab for it on the board? It shows since I spent too much time zoomed close in...gotta step back to see where you're messing up eh!

I called her "Ezra- Queen of the Horrible and Evil Kinect E3 Release Show".

post-1154-12777413879484_thumb.jpg

post-1154-12777414374888_thumb.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Nice esp. for the price! I should probably learn some real sculpting methods and use references...and actually sculpt more often than once a year, but hey, not bad for the first time in the app (and my horrible skill level)- it's that easy to use. I never used the sub-divide button either...I think its a good amount of detail for just 85k in triangles! Did the horrible texture map in Sculptris too...

I couldn't figure out how to zoom with my pen tablet either- I guess I'll have to set up a tab for it on the board? It shows since I spent too much time zoomed close in...gotta step back to see where you're messing up eh!

I called her "Ezra- Queen of the Horrible and Evil Kinect E3 Release Show".

I think it's looking pretty good myself, and you definitely show talent. yes, practice more than once a year!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice esp. for the price! I should probably learn some real sculpting methods and use references...and actually sculpt more often than once a year, but hey, not bad for the first time in the app (and my horrible skill level)- it's that easy to use. I never used the sub-divide button either...I think its a good amount of detail for just 85k in triangles! Did the horrible texture map in Sculptris too...

I couldn't figure out how to zoom with my pen tablet either- I guess I'll have to set up a tab for it on the board? It shows since I spent too much time zoomed close in...gotta step back to see where you're messing up eh!

I called her "Ezra- Queen of the Horrible and Evil Kinect E3 Release Show".

Dude you're being much too modest! I know your stuff, strut it. :)

I haven't checked out the latest version of sculptris... In fact, I always forget about it. Plus with my computer being down so long it was impossible to run anyway. So this new version has painting tools, too?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

To be clear, AFAIK, the painting is very basic (No, not MS or Mac Paint basic...but basic). That said, it works, does bump maps etc. and would probably be more than enough for most hobbyist, or if a project didn't require anything nearly as robust as 3DC. Well I guess if you're also REALLY talented and like things basic then it would be good.

It IS however much easier, and in my opinion, superior to using zbrush for texture painting (but that's not saying much is it). Not knocking zb by the way, just calling it as I see it!

I haven't tried bringing in a model with my own UV maps yet to see how it handles things- and I'm betting it can't to overlapping UVs etc. but I could be wrong.

Hopefully this guys road trip he's on has him passing through Kiev as I think he and Andrew could really talk 3D tech and math shop given their gaming backgrounds and abilities!

-g

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member

Awesome. Was hoping something like that would happen. Glad pixologic got him instead of autodesk. I'd much rather see that tech integrated with zb than mud - or at least continue development as a stand alone with support from pixologic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Awesome. Was hoping something like that would happen. Glad pixologic got him instead of autodesk. I'd much rather see that tech integrated with zb than mud - or at least continue development as a stand alone with support from pixologic.

Only problem is...didn't mudbox 1 have a similar adaptive style...but when it came to actually doing more flexible things with the model and changing resolution they had to abandon it?

Hey +1 that AD didn't get it. Fact is though...they didn't need it.

-2 that the dude sold out so quickly.

He could have made it further on his own or with his own small team OR even just sold it for more in a year or so. Oh well- I could care less to be honest. I'll be surprised to see a program with the functionality of sculptris AND zb in the next five years at the rate Pixologic works. They'll probably manage to make a detestable interface while their at it though!

I also wonder...how the "cool" factor is going to play out when something costs 600 bucks vs. Free. A lot of expectations change between those two models of funding!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I reckon Pixologic will develop it as a seperate application. The reason being that ZBrush is built on a software renderer whereas Sculptris is more suited to a hardware renderer.

This is assuming Pixologic don't eventually add a hardware renderer to ZBrush.

But I suspect some features of Sculptris will eventually make their way into ZBrush, like the adaptive brushes. But some people will always prefer the smoothness of a hardware renderer and so it would be a shame to see them abandon Sculptris completely.

The biggest weakness of Sculptris was that the meshes it produced were totally unoptimized. So the great thing about Pixologic getting their hands on Sculptris is that they'll be able to integrate their decimation tech into Sculptris. ZBrush's decimator is by far the best in the business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
The biggest weakness of Sculptris was that the meshes it produced were totally unoptimized. So the great thing about Pixologic getting their hands on Sculptris is that they'll be able to integrate their decimation tech into Sculptris. ZBrush's decimator is by far the best in the business.

I feel this is one of the major points too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I feel this is one of the major points too.

Don't you think there is s big difference between live optimization and putting it through the decimation in zb? I found the feature in zb amazing for things that were to be...not deformed...but if you were going to deform or add some modeling to it it's a nightmare IMHO.

Besides, sculptris meshes are fairly light weight IMHO. Getting it to do quads, in real time, and optimized...well good luck to em!

The rendering in zb is garbage IMHO, granted, some people who like to torture themselves find it rewarding, and produce amazing things with it, but I like using a standard render engine and scene, with real shaders etc. Besides...with GPUs around I think it's time they canned it and went with something more flexible and faster for the rendering side of things.

I'm not holding my breath though on ANYTHING pixologic promises, or reports to be doing. Until it's released and in the public hands, it's hype or vaporware given their track record.

The funny thing is that the sculptris paint tools, while = to ms paint when compared to 3DC or Bodypaint, is light years beyond the current half baked zb method- so hopefully that will improve for all of those people looking to detail their models in it.

Almost none of this solves the on going and problematic issues of using zb though- how do you get, easily and reliably, all of the goodness from zb into your standard 3D program? Half of the good stuff still lives and dies at the edges of its windows or requires un-necessary voo-doo IMHO.

No...the biggest things to me that would be gains for pixologic are: A: ditch their idea of what a UI should be and go with the sculptris version B: Use the adaptive subdivision tech to help relieve the sub divide to oblivion method C: Use real paint tool methods- stop trying to re-invent the wheel that already been done- and just use what sculptris has to offer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

@mocaw

I've mentioned it before, and I know it is still likely to become one of the features that future POLY-based sculpting apps use:

adaptive-localized-tessellation, with localized re-projection of underlying deformation based on the pre-cached-previously-non-tessellated-mesh.

the math is there, nvidia has recently shown tech-demos of pieces of this in action. one day, the mixing of sculptris modeling, which is dynamically tessellated, ALONG WITH ZBrush's ability to reproject details with superb control, that will be a mix to be a powerful mix, which Pixologic MAY choose to do now. I spoke of it before this recent acquisition of Sculptris by Pixologic, and now it would be very plausible that this mix of techniques become commonplace for ZB users at some point. IMO it is the next logical step to poly-based sculpting. I've written many long-winded posts on the 3D Coat forums going into detail on the subject, i wont bore anyone again, I'll just want to test it out in ZB someday ;-).

I'm not sure what your comment about rendering has to do with my post. As an aside, I too use external renderers, lightwave & blender & luxrender mostly. many would agree that the rest of your post is hard to argue with in some ways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

@mocaw

I'm not sure what your comment about rendering has to do with my post. As an aside, I too use external renderers, lightwave & blender & luxrender mostly. many would agree that the rest of your post is hard to argue with in some ways.

Sorry that was just a general gripe in my rant along with several other points that were not targeted at you. Sorry for the confusion.

I will have to look up this tech you are talking about as it sounds interesting. I wonder though; since it was demoed by nvidia, does that mean it is something more well suited to GPU enabled applications?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I doubt it will change anything much with Zbrush. Perhaps the additions of a few new techs, but not the ui or its general methods. People are stubborn and like things to stay the same if they have seen no need to change anything then it wont ever, unless someone new gets their hands on it.

It sounds as if they are going to develop it separately though and perhaps integrate parts with zbrush, and they've bought the software plus the person(they are not trying to bury it), which is a definite sign that some interesting things will happen that otherwise would not.

The software on its own could have never competed with all the other sculpting apps. It would have disappeard into the ether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...