Jump to content
3DCoat Forums

Question for Andrew


Cube
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Applink Developer

Thanks Artman, good points. Also one good trick is to use "Clone and Degrade" option. Let's take a head sculpt for example.

If you have 8-10mil in your head. Then you can try clone and degrade. And compare those two layers together. If they looks

almost the same then you have inc resolution too soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Maybe Juan is ok waiting hours and hours for a merge. You seem to be on some kind of a crusade here to try and make others, who run into issues, feel like they are just imagining things and that you're the only one here who knows the deepest secrets of the Coat. :rolleyes:

No,he wasnt even working in surface mode...all his work is done with the old voxel brushes.

He is a master with extrude brush and sharp pen as you can see on his old man bust.

Really people are not imagining things...they just dont know how to use 3DC ...they try to mimic Zb/Mb workflow

while it require a completely different approach.Even LJB wrote clear post about that and he can do very powerful stuff with voxel sculpting evn with the said brushsize limtations.

And please stop seeing me as someone pretentious who thinks he got the truth about 3DC,its just that really frustrate me seeing how peoples complain on how it cannot do any detailed work while its been proven over and over that its not true.

And Trust me I would really be happy to keep all those "secrets" to myself and just go on sculpting in my corner...(And really sometimes when I see those little arguing,theorizings and neverending feature requests I feel I should just do so...and maybe I will.)but I have this feeling that I know its false,that voxel sculpting is not that weak,and damn look at the gallery...its not just midres stuff we are talking about.Anyway,Im going now..Good night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I'm not quite sure but It seems that merging time works exp. to triangles number. Sorry, my english but I hope this table helps:

1 mil = Mergetime * 1

5 mil = Mergetime * 2

10 mil = Mergetime * 5

15 mil = Mergetime * 12

20 mil = Mergetime * 25

Very bad table but I hope you get the point. It is important to keep it in 1-10 range because it's much faster there.

In my worflow I always try to work with 1-5 mil per layer. And when the scuplt is finished then I add them together and

fix the seams.

Sorry Cube, this is off topic...

off topic indeed, but for me and others attempting to achieve even a fraction of the detail that is achievable in nearly every other sculpting app(INCLUDING BLENDER for free), 1-5 million will simply not do. And splitting up a model is absolutely not the way to go for me or anyone coming from mudbox, zbrush or any other "professional" productive sculpting tool; it's bad for baking, bad for uv work(different meshes for the same body/skin), and so much more... IMO its something that has no place in the modern 3d sculpting workflow....

For example, if we're talking about sculpting a nude human figure, why would you ever choose to break up the body parts if the purpose of doing so wasn't for creative reasons? Even with Blender I can get 35million polys moving and sculpting just fine, yes I know the difference between voxels and quad-based poly apps... anyway, 3DC isnt a true-voxel app given the poly-skin you're actually seeing and sculpting.

here comes the reiteration.... :: multithread 3DC, especially the vox room; then merge bars will progress MUCH faster, as will the entire app... And hopefully we will be able to work on high-res detail one day when 3DC has been multithreaded, and either 1 of 2 options that AbnRanger has covered:

#1: we get a multi-res mode in the vox room that allows us to sculpt in a higher level(subD) of detail on our voxel sculpt. Thus having access to all the surface tools for it.

and/or

#2: we get a sculpt room that has a decent toolset, the current one is "a bit sparse" compared to other sculpting toolsets. as per AbnRanger's thorough descriptions

my personal thoughts on the subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Even LJB wrote clear post about that and he can do very powerful stuff with voxel sculpting evn with the said brushsize limtations.

I've read LJB's thread.. and guess what he HAD to do because of the slow speed of 3DC? BREAK UP HIS MODEL, he had to split the head off into another vox tree layer, then smooth out the neck, only to now be left with 2 vox tree layers that are separate, not a good-rule for a productive workflow IMO. ESPECIALLY SINCE 3DC doesn't have the ability to MOVE MULTIPLE LAYERS at once, that is a very key point, that MANY 3DC users recognize.... nothing like the other sculpting apps have to move multiple layers(sub-tools) at once, say with the pose tool... so this workflow that even LJB had to compromise on is not at all keeping with the modern 3d sculpting workflow in the last say 5 years or so...

How very tedious it would be to repose that sculpt layer by layer, or at least a waste of time for a productive workflow IMO? a very good reason ZB introduced transpose master long ago... not a professional workflow at all IMO

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

ESPECIALLY SINCE 3DC doesn't have the ability to MOVE MULTIPLE LAYERS at once

You can move mutilple layers at once ANYTIME with transform tool.

You cannot use Pose tool on multiples layers yet ...

but if what you want is a superior version of Zbrush for half the price with layer texturing capacities then you'll have to be patient a little...

Btw,you've been here for not even 2 months and you've already used the word "multithread" more than a 100 times...I think you should get a tatoo or something...

3DC doesnt have transpose master.

Zb cannot load specular texture or even paint in layers.

3Dcoat bottleneck with brushes happens much earlier.

Zb have a 50 000 polys max capacities for baking comparative normal maps.

3DC cannot create custom brushes.

Zb symmetry is based on he canvas and when you rotate your subtool you're screwed.

3DCoat cannot import giant 30 mil meshes chunk

Zb retopology tools are extremely weak...and you can only bring quady models with barely a few tris..

And so on....

Its all about what you need.

If you need to merge and pose 20 million pieces of mesh,well work in Zb dude...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Hey i'm glad that this thread at least has people talking but i just want to clarify that this thread IS NOT actually a feature request thread. It's just somewhere to discuss what might be possible in the next 6-12 months or so to bring surface detail on-par with ZBrush. I was hoping that Andrew might come in to explain the advantages and disadvantages of the current 'marching cubes' approach in the voxel room and maybe explain his point of view on what the options might be for greater efficiency.

I'm not suggesting that 3DCoat is flawed or can only do medium frequency detail, it can actually produce some very good details, it's just that last 10% or so where it lags behind for now. Of course the program could stay exactly as it is, and eventually match what ZBrush can do when computer hardware is more powerful in a few years, but if there is the possibility of getting another subdivision level on current hardware with some changes to the rendering approach (or any other method) then i'd be really interested in that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Hi Cube,

~

Just to be clear what i'm talking about in this thread is ULTRA-FINE detailing, the likes of which you can find if you go to the ZBrush website and look through their 'featured' gallery. I'm talking skin pore level of detail here. 3DCoat has really good mid-high detail, there is no issue there at all.

Oh I see, "Sharp details means Ultra-Fine details = skin pore detail" Thanks for the clarification.

I'm 50yrs old & only leaned to switch on a computer 5+ yrs ago, all of my 3D experience has only been with CAD-NURBS based programs.

Trying to broaden my horizons with 3D-Coat which means now I'm trying to learn my way through the maze of terms that all of you guys are using here.

Hence my confusion about the "sharp details".

regards Colin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

No problem Colin, since we have no exact scale to work from, fine detail is totally subjective and everyone has their own expectations.

ZBrush does have an advantage when you get to extremely high polycounts, but for everything else Voxels are an aweul lot more fun to work with! You should be able to match anything you can find on the Sensable site, i really think the hardware is their big selling point, the software appears to be about the same level as 3DCoat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...