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3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread


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May I ask some question? In which kind of way for what tasks this feature could be helpful? (please write detailed answer not just general phrases like "to simplify uv editing process")

When you're smoothing out your UV, you're basically diminishing the compression (blue in 3DCoat) and stretching (red in 3DCoat) of the polygons in the UV space. In the other hand, it's generally advisable to have the least possible amount of islands in your UV to minimize seam problems related to edge padding (black edges show up when enabling LoD in real-time and game engines) and normal maps, since in render time - real-time or not - it's almost impossible for the renderer to keep the simulated normal continuity across discontinuous islands. I'm putting that on light terms since these problems would require a much more thorough explanation, but for the point in discussion suffices to say that it's wise to have the least possible amount of seams and "hide" them (ie. keep them out of the intended or most common viewing ranges) as well as you can. It's also worth mentioning that PTex is supposed to correct all these problems, the problem being that almost no current real-time engine supports it, but if you're working for TV/movie production it's definitely a superior and no-frills option.

Back to UV-land. The problem with reducing the amount of islands is that you induce sensibly more stretching and compression issues. To fix them gets exponentially harder since you employ less "decompression cuts" when defining the islands. All that's to say that you have to manually move the UV island edges away from its current contour to open room for the inner polygons to expand (ie. de-compress). Not having the ability to do that algorithmically (yet localized by the brush radius) forces you to do lots of tedious vertex pulling.

Hope the explanation didn't get too confusing. I wish I had the time to grab a couple screenshots to better illustrate it - which, curiously, would probably be faster than typing all this lol :)

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When you're smoothing out your UV, you're basically diminishing the compression (blue in 3DCoat) and stretching (red in 3DCoat) of the polygons in the UV space.

for compensate distortions/compressions i am selecting polys over such places and apply few times relax it resulting that those areas become almost gray maybe with slight tint, or using smooth brush, but it would not be perfect everywhere anyway. still, even after i read the explanation i still missing smthing, i like that for now i coud not affect the borders of uvs by smooth brush. As for the seams and their appearence in game engines the way to avoid them is to use padding while baking maps in pixels which extends color over the borders of uvs slightly. but presence of the padding some times not necesary means that it will release model from artefacts in the seams area, some thimes while turning around model on those seams happens some blinking and the only way to get rid of it - is to move a bit uv borders >inside< texture space, but such act will result in non coincidence of a texture along either side of a seam.

As for uv editor in 3DC in general, it is sad for me, that it have no option to show an actual texture map applied on model in uv preview window, also undo on selection works strange in preview window - need to push it few times and it removes not the last element item picked, but the whole selection of elements :blink:

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Hello there,

just downloaded 3D Coat from the download page, and wanted to claim that the ptex export isn't working, but than I realized that it's not the latest build which I have. Why the current build is only accessible through the forum is another point, but more urgent I need to discuss the problem I have now with the .ptx export. 3D Coat crashes whenever I try to export the texture as .ptx.

BUILD:

3D-COAT 3.3.13(CUDA)(GL64)(trial)

OS:

Win7 x64

BUG DESCRIPTION:

Crashes before exporting .ptx file

STEPS TO REPRODUCE:

I've imported creature.obj for ptex painting from the samples folder, and applied some color to it. Then under the Textures menu I chose Export->Color to Ptx. Then it crashes.

Regards

Lorenz

I VERY recommend you use DX version instead of GL. GL is not working well under Vista/7 because of drivers. I tried DX and ptx export works very well.

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i like that for now i coud not affect the borders of uvs by smooth brush.

True, it's many times handy to have edges "locked", that's exactly why UVLayout (probably the most professionally used UV creation application) has a 'smooth edges' toggle. UVLayout also has the ability to create 'pins' (using the A key shortcut) that hold specific vertices in place as the smoothing is carried out, very handy for the smoothing of tight corners in which you never want some vertexes to move and create overlaps.

As for the seams and their appearence in game engines the way to avoid them is to use padding while baking maps in pixels which extends color over the borders of uvs slightly.

Edge padding work things out nicely for diffuse (color) textures, but it's really insufficient for normal maps. That's more related to the normal map technology itself than to some 3DCoat limitation, there's a recent Pixar workflow presentation that explains that in detail - you can search for Pixar + ptex in youtube. Talking of which, normal map creation also has been an area in which 3DCoat has fallen short in my opinion, although Andrew has made great improvements in that aspect recently. Anyways, my point stands that your best option for real-time/game engines is have the least seams possible, preferrably just one island, and keep those seams as well hidden as possible. To achieve that goal I'm finding the UVMaster (zbrush auto-UV creation plugin) + 3DCoat combo to be almost unbeatable. I create the base UV cuts in ZB/UVMaster, those cuts work as a great starting point while the auto-UV option in 3DCoat just creates garbage which's unfortunately as useless as hard to clean up. I then edit and smooth them in 3DCoat using its excellent UV toolset.

A little known fact is that 3DCoat's smoothing brush algorithm is sensibly superior to the brush smoothing algorithm in UVLayout (not talking about the island-wide option, that one is pretty kickass). 3DCoat's UV brush reaches higher levels of smoothing and distributes smoothing better across larger area, leading to superior results.

As for uv editor in 3DC in general, it is sad for me, that it have no option to show an actual texture map applied on model in uv preview window

Actually the texture maps show up in the UV preview window normally in the Texture Editor (Paint Room) just not in the retopo's UV preview. To be honest I don't understand why that would make any sense, since while you're retopo'ing you - as far as I know - shouldn't think about the final texture, just about seams and distortion. Care to explain why you'd need that? :unsure:

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hey there, i am a new coat user so i don't know exactly how things work here,

and sorry if this is not the right place to ask basic questions but . .

do you download the version at the top of this link to use all the new beta features ?

does your serial work in the beta ?

can you run the beta and the released version on the same machine ?

is there a mac 64 bit version on the way ?

thanks

pete

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do you download the version at the top of this link to use all the new beta features ?

yes. :)

does your serial work in the beta ?

yes.

can you run the beta and the released version on the same machine ?

Yes,but not at the same time.

is there a mac 64 bit version on the way ?

I wouldnt expect it too much. It seems to be very hard to do.

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Are we going to be able to autotopo mesh objects without converting to voxels step? Because I I get some bad converstions sometimes from mesh --> voxel objects particularly when importing a sculptris mesh. Also, it tends to lose sharpness and detail

thanks!

post-1190-12829828978009_thumb.png

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Make sure the mesh is closed, that's what usually causes that problem. Either before hand or with the make Mesh Closed button in the Params panel.

hey it worked!

Now for the other problem which is loss of detail. How can I make sure that the voxel object will be the right resolution to retain the fine detail. I have problems with that part.

thanks !

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Now for the other problem which is loss of detail. How can I make sure that the voxel object will be the right resolution to retain the fine detail. I have problems with that part.

Well, there is an auto scale button, though I find I need to scale it up just a bit more than that, then the res is correct. If it's not enough detail, hit Undo and scale it up some more, then hit Enter again.

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UVLayout also has the ability to create 'pins' (using the A key shortcut) that hold specific vertices in place as the smoothing is carried out, very handy for the smoothing of tight corners in which you never want some vertexes to move and create overlaps.

Hm, I think it would be handy to have such features in 3dc also. ok.

I create the base UV cuts in ZB/UVMaster, those cuts work as a great starting point while the auto-UV option in 3DCoat just creates garbage which's unfortunately as useless as hard to clean up. I then edit and smooth them in 3DCoat using its excellent UV toolset.

Actually im not quite sure but have seen on youtube, that in zbrush unwrapped model also could be tweaked and threated with brushes just like any 3d tools in flattened mode. But have not tried that approach with UV master... I am lazy(

Anyways, my point stands that your best option for real-time/game engines is have the least seams possible, preferrably just one island, and keep those seams as well hidden as possible.

I am agree of course, but in practice you will often approach details wich needed to be cut-off for better unwraping horns, pimps... noses and ears are also annoying you know it...

Actually the texture maps show up in the UV preview window normally in the Texture Editor (Paint Room) just not in the retopo's UV preview. To be honest I don't understand why that would make any sense, since while you're retopo'ing you - as far as I know - shouldn't think about the final texture, just about seams and distortion. Care to explain why you'd need that?

No, when in texture editing mode there is no option in windows-popups to see the uv preview, it is useful some times to see the flattened version of a texture and paint on it, also some times I prefer to tweak a bit UVs to match the painted details rather then to redraw/clone them on texture.

for the retopo - yes, i dont care about how the uvs are looking during that process.

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Well, there is an auto scale button, though I find I need to scale it up just a bit more than that, then the res is correct. If it's not enough detail, hit Undo and scale it up some more, then hit Enter again.

Where is this Auto scale button?

Thanks

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Not sure if this is on topic sorry if not, but the add/split command in the retopo room for me I cant split anymore with it. It just snaps to verts. I dont know if its a setting or something, if it is I cannot find it.

edit: Also the points and faces tool, cant add faces, I can manipulate the points but not add the faces.

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ahh I see :rolleyes:

@Andrew Autoropo doesn't retopo all snakes properly,if snake has links which doesn't touch only first link will be done,it happens in snakes where links dont touch each other.It would be cool if only first link in any snake would be autoretopo other could be instanced,so it would be possible uvmap one link and this uvs would be transfered to all other links.UVmapping all links or even copying uvs to them would be too much work.

linksu.jpg

In fact ... if they are multiple voxels volumes not-connected (like you did some axial symmetry) only one will be autoretopo.

links2.jpg

It should work like like that

-autorepo

-first 'link' is autoretopo

-uvmap it

- and here new feature is needed - create instances of uvmaped autoretopo first object in same places where 'missing' links should be.The whole point of snakes or axial symmetry is that you have objects in some very specific position.They should share same UVs because they are duplicated objects in most cases.

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That would be great if it would be done.

But it also will need some kind of UV-instance or copy that would copy UVs from one links to all the others, uvmapping 100 links wouldn't be fun at all or even several objects mirrored by axial symmetry

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Not sure if this is on topic sorry if not, but the add/split command in the retopo room for me I cant split anymore with it. It just snaps to verts. I dont know if its a setting or something, if it is I cannot find it.

edit: Also the points and faces tool, cant add faces, I can manipulate the points but not add the faces.

I believe if you decrease the brush radius and zoom in you can get around the snapping.

Did you try right clicking when the system-proposed face appears under your cursor?

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Actually im not quite sure but have seen on youtube, that in zbrush unwrapped model also could be tweaked and threated with brushes just like any 3d tools in flattened mode. But have not tried that approach with UV master... I am lazy(

Hey, that sounds great, I hadn't heard of that before :) Will sure try it, thanks for the hint.

I am agree of course, but in practice you will often approach details wich needed to be cut-off for better unwraping horns, pimps... noses and ears are also annoying you know it...

Sure, if a visual seam is to be expected or won't matter, it's actually smarter to add the UV seam, to make the UV islands more relaxed. I should have said "try to keep to one island per continuous material type".

No, when in texture editing mode there is no option in windows-popups to see the uv preview, it is useful some times to see the flattened version of a texture and paint on it, also some times I prefer to tweak a bit UVs to match the painted details rather then to redraw/clone them on texture.

That's really weird, I've always got that option pinned on my layout. Maybe you're not finding it 'coz you're looking at the windows-popups menu item, un-obviously enough this specific window is found on textures->texture uv editor. It's one of the most amazing things in 3DCoat actually, allows you to check normal, diffuse and specular maps, and even paint straight on the flattened UV while you see it updating in (semi) real-time in the 3D view. :good:

BTW Andrew, as we're talking about not-real-time painting performance, would you mind checking this thread (if you didn't yet):

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6418&st=0&gopid=48446entry48446

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That's really weird, I've always got that option pinned on my layout. Maybe you're not finding it 'coz you're looking at the windows-popups menu item, un-obviously enough this specific window is found on textures->texture uv editor. It's one of the most amazing things in 3DCoat actually, allows you to check normal, diffuse and specular maps, and even paint straight on the flattened UV while you see it updating in (semi) real-time in the 3D view. :good:

I agree that's amazing, but I'm curious what you mean by "semi realtime". The painting always been fully real time for me going back to the first version I bought early in the 2.x era, only the displacement had a slight delay (when you let go of the brush), but now that's real time too.

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Updated to 3.3.14 (Win only, Mac & Linux - soon)

- I made possibility to upload turnables automatically, very easy- see example - http://bit.ly/d3H3rc

- non-connected objects will be supported for Auto-retopo.

- Falloff will work in eraser tool too

- I made nice models preview in Merge/spline tools instead of old ugly file tree. I made this maily because I am about to provide big library of models in merge/spline tool and it will be just impossible to use it without nice previews. This is how it looks now - http://bit.ly/ds5R2I

- I disabled possibility to transform volume in proxy mode from surface to voxels to prevent loses. It changes nothing in workflow but prevents random loses while working with proxy.

- It will be possible to smooth UV islands edges in UV room in brush mode.

- Incorrect work of Split and Cut&Clone on some objects fixed (dense objects with high Split Border value).

- There is new and useful item in VoxTree RMB menu - Merge visible

- VoxTree/Shaders will be accesible in render room too

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That's really weird, I've always got that option pinned on my layout. Maybe you're not finding it 'coz you're looking at the windows-popups menu item, un-obviously enough this specific window is found on textures->texture uv editor. It's one of the most amazing things in 3DCoat actually, allows you to check normal, diffuse and specular maps, and even paint straight on the flattened UV while you see it updating in (semi) real-time in the 3D view.

thanks, finally I found that flattened texture preview, my fault I looked for it in a wrong place lately.

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