Andrew Shpagin

3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread

916 posts in this topic

3.3.14

I have problem with Add/Split in retopo , sometimes it works fine and let you cut anywhere and sometimes it snaps to vertexes and it's impossible to get rid of this vertex snap (like I want to cut in the middle of edge)

Looks like snapping to vertex in this tool is too strong if edge length is small, maybe there should be snap strength option for this tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3.3.14

I have problem with Add/Split in retopo , sometimes it works fine and let you cut anywhere and sometimes it snaps to vertexes and it's impossible to get rid of this vertex snap (like I want to cut in the middle of edge)

Looks like snapping to vertex in this tool is too strong.

Snapping to vertices depends on pen radius, so you may control better what do you need - edges or vertices.

Actually it is helpful only in Add/Split, so this behavior will be removed from other tools to avoid misunderstood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tried, but speed of rendering is the same if I rendering animation or rendering manually...

Try to render turnable (animation) while being in render room.

And it could be goo to get the model to reproduce the problem.

I've been noticing this for a long time now with any dense voxel model I've tried. The current one (below) is about 17 million tris.

I tried to record a video but the recording messed up the times. So here I made screenshots allowing it to render for exactly 22 seconds before taking the screenshot (I have a timer). You can see the realtime one is much further along than the animation rendered one in the same amount of time.

2010-09-02_0505.png

The full turntable I made took at least two and a half hours for 36 frames.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I re-uploaded 3.3.14 just to check if changes in retopo tools are good.

I made that pen radius is applied for picking vertices only for particular tools where it looks logical.

Other changes from Twitter are there too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With models thumbnails there is small issue - they are not 'interactive' at all, they don't have any mouse over animation or selected state indication (like 1 pixel white border around thumbnail to indicate this item is selected)

It would give 3DC better feeling if all thumbnails in all panels would have mouse over animation.For example in Zbrush if you mouse over any alpha,brush etc they will highlight with 1 pixel white border around them.It gives,nice interactive feeling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With models thumbnails there is small issue - they are not 'interactive' at all, they don't have any mouse over animation or selected state indication (like 1 pixel white border around thumbnail to indicate this item is selected)

It would give 3DC better feeling if all thumbnails in all panels would have mouse over animation.For example in Zbrush if you mouse over any alpha,brush etc they will highlight with 1 pixel white border around them.It gives,nice interactive feeling.

Why do they need to glow? If you know what you want, click it. That's just my 2 cents...I'm all for add functionality, but not so much, for frills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do they need to glow? If you know what you want, click it. That's just my 2 cents...I'm all for add functionality, but not so much, for frills.

It would be a nice touch, but it would be on one of my lowest priority list. But maybe it just takes a minute to implement, so who knows...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why do they need to glow? If you know what you want, click it. That's just my 2 cents...I'm all for add functionality, but not so much, for frills.

I do think mouse over feedback is a great feature to have, especially for newcomers, but I have to agree with AbnRanger when we don't even have real time progress bars!

Seriously, what the hell is with 3DCoat's progress bars?? Every artist I show 3DCoat to and that tries to use it always complain about the fact that it might take 5-10 seconds just to show the progress bars after clicking on some commands, even auto-retopo. Believe it or not, I've actually seen a bit more anxious artist hitting ctrl+alt+del to finish the application once in such a situation.. :o

Not to mention that when the operation completes before the progress bar box shows up, you get zero feedback about what happened - especially if it was an operation that led to no result, like for instance performing relax on an already relaxed island. It's just as if the program went to zombieland for a moment and then back, with no warning.. :(

You know what I've got used to do to know when the program had completed some operations? To put the mouse pointer over a different menu option than the one selected. As soon as it highlights I know the program is back to his externally-conscious state. Ouch..

That all might sound funny and minimal, but it's a serious issue that makes the program seem quite unprofessional. If the progress bar box showed up instantly for such operations, even if stuck at zero% for some time, this kind of frustration would be completely removed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Maddox. This is more important than the glowing buttons feature, and it is unnerving that you're never sure when something is "done".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what I've got used to do to know when the program had completed some operations? To put the mouse pointer over a different menu option than the one selected. As soon as it highlights I know the program is back to his externally-conscious state. Ouch..

Its funny,I use this workaround too. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what I've got used to do to know when the program had completed some operations? To put the mouse pointer over a different menu option than the one selected. As soon as it highlights I know the program is back to his externally-conscious state. Ouch..

+1 Great minds think alike? :rolleyes:

Another problem that I find particularly annoying is the progress bar sticking at 99% finished for a longer time than than the first 98%. If the final 1% takes longer to complete than the first 99% then obviously the 99% was only 50% or less. Every time that I experience this I begin to wonder if the program has gone into an endless loop and I feel compelled to kill it and start over. The only thing stopping me is the knowing from experience that I will end up in the same place. :(

P. Monk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its funny,I use this workaround too. :)

Me too, or place the cursor over the model and wait for the brush to appear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Progress bars should have 'cancel' button to cancel operation if it takes too long like in autoretopo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Progress bars should have 'cancel' button to cancel operation if it takes too long like in autoretopo.

The problem here is that I'm not sure how well it would work. For example in the render room you can hit Esc. to cancel but I usually have to sit here hitting it repeatedly for a couple minutes or longer before it stops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I noticed it as well in render room, in fact I stopped to use it because sometimes I couldn't switch render off at all.I thought it's a problem with 3DC reading ESC key and reported it as a bug but it seems some operations make 3DC not much responsive.

BTW @Anrew in 3.3.14 there is a bug - Quads tool snaps to reference geometry polygon's edges.Sometimes quads draw on surface but randomly it locks and starts to snap to geometry polygon edges which is very annoying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know much about programming but it seems as though internal stuff like calculations take priority over user input like clicks and keyboard presses.

BTW I see a problem with the new brush size issue in the retopo room. The brush size is very small for some tools which I don't like but I understand why Andrew did it. The problem is when you try to make it bigger, either with the bracket keys or with the mouse, it starts lagging behind the cursor. you can see in this little video the brush follows the cursor just fine, then I hit the ] key a bunch of times to "make it bigger" and there is a big lag. Then I hit the [ key to "make it smaller" and the lag goes away.

http://screencast.com/t/Yjc3YmM1Y2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Progress bars should have 'cancel' button to cancel operation if it takes too long like in autoretopo.

I agree. Any operation that has a progress bar should also have a large "Cancel" button right square in your face so you can hit it at any moment if it's taking too long.

The problem here is that I'm not sure how well it would work. For example in the render room you can hit Esc. to cancel but I usually have to sit here hitting it repeatedly for a couple minutes or longer before it stops.

This should be fixed. I call that a bug. It's annoyed me for a while but luckily I don't use the render feature too much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Density masking for the auto-retopo feature only works when importing meshes. If I try to quadrulating a voxel mesh, nothing will happen when I try to mask off areas at the density stage in the wizard. It'd be great if I didn't have to export it.

Also I noticed if you delete you retopo result and try to do it again a second time, 3dcoat becomes unstable and crashes.

Sorry if these points have been raised already, just to many pages to go through to check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Density masking for the auto-retopo feature only works when importing meshes. If I try to quadrulating a voxel mesh, nothing will happen when I try to mask off areas at the density stage in the wizard. It'd be great if I didn't have to export it.

Do you have any way to reproduce it? It seems to be working on my end here with various vox sculptures.

Also I noticed if you delete you retopo result and try to do it again a second time, 3dcoat becomes unstable and crashes.

Sorry if these points have been raised already, just to many pages to go through to check.

I can confirm that, it causes some instability when repeating the autopo tool. Build 3.3.14, Win7 64bit, 64bit DX CUDA version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Autoretopo is generally unstable, it would be great if it would be done more stable and reliable.It often crashes 3DC without warning or it never ends (it will calculate for eternity), especially with objects created by axial symmetry.

It would be great to have sharp edges modulator for autoretopo, it follows voxels sometimes to accurate and autoretopo mesh looks like smoothed without sharp edges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a idiot, the reason why masking the density wasn't working was that the depth was on zero, I must have done that when modelling some other model.

Crashing with retopo is tempermental, sometimes it crashes like crazy then sometimes it's solid as a rock for hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a idoit, the reason why masking the density wasn't working was that the depth was on zero, I must dont that when modelling some other model.

Crashing with retopo is tempermental, sometimes it crashes like crazy then sometimes it's solid as a rock for hours.

Before deleting a layer I often click "Clear." I'd prefer that it only clear the active/selected layer, and not the whole room...but if it is the only layer you have, I would try that. Sometimes I have had some hidden points hidden or hanging out in space (a bug I'm sure), and the only way to rectify the instability is to hit "clear."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could be nice to jump to a surface mode when importing an already retopo model. A surface mode that could construct multi res meshes. A zbrush like. Half of this already exists in voxels surface mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could be nice to jump to a surface mode when importing an already retopo model. A surface mode that could construct multi res meshes. A zbrush like. Half of this already exists in voxels surface mode.

That's what 3dc needs for voxel refinement... with cuda acceleration it could be a game changer against big guns like zbrush. Imagine the freedom of voxel combined with precision and speed of polygons... With autoretopo as bridge between the two you could do almost everything without 3d modeling software.

THAT is actually a feature that is usefull. And I know I should be posting that in feature request, but other have done so for quite a while now and visibility seams way higher on this thread, sadly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's what 3dc needs for voxel refinement... with cuda acceleration it could be a game changer against big guns like zbrush. Imagine the freedom of voxel combined with precision and speed of polygons... With autoretopo as bridge between the two you could do almost everything without 3d modeling software.

THAT is actually a feature that is usefull. And I know I should be posting that in feature request, but other have done so for quite a while now and visibility seams way higher on this thread, sadly...

That is what Surface mode is designed to do...give you the speed of polygonal sculpting, and for the most part, it does just that. However, 3DC would become even more versatile with the Surface mode tools and engine mirrored to the Sculpt Room. I think a good goal for v4 would be perhaps a few major additions like this and multi-thread the rest of the application, then go into some deep consultation with some ZBrush veterans like Leigh Bamforth, Bay Raitt, J. Edwards, etc...to help refine the brushes and sculpting toolset.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites