philnolan3d Posted May 31, 2010 Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm looking to get a new video card in the near future. Specifically for 3D-Coat I could use as many GPU cores and as much RAM on it as possible. However it seems that there's a minimal spec. difference, but a huge price difference, between the 470 and 480. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Ghostdog Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 thanks Phil you reminded me I forgot to do something important today. I use an ATI4850 but have seen Octane renderer is 50% off at the moment so was thinking of getting myself a new card and trying out some GPU rendering... Octane Just posting the link in case it helps anyone, listening to thread for actual useful replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I've been looking at Octane too. I don't know though I really like the LightWave renderer. Looks like if you want Octane you'll have to switch to nVidia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member lucpet Posted May 31, 2010 Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I don't know about either as I could only justify getting a 9800gt mainly because I wanted Octane as well so I got both instead of a GTX. My theory is if you can afford it get it. My setup is not that old, and I'm finding running all the recently updated software packages is stressing my system, hence the new but older graphic card. Future proof, maybe not, but delaying the inevitable while saving for the next best thing is the way to go IMHO Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Racush Posted May 31, 2010 Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I currently run one 480GTX and it was a great improvement over my old 9800GTX+ just a warning though 3d coat still has some problems with them if you want CUDA but it still works fine with out CUDA. I have not run the 470 to really know how it stands up with a 480 but if you have the cash I would say go 480 as its well wroth the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Laticis Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 In short: go for the 480 if you can. Been working with new custom built system ( 2 weeks old ). I7960 / MSI GTX480 / 12G Ram / Win7 / GAX58UD5 MB - ( In heaven ) I have 1 problem with 3D Coat ( Cuda Crashes - Andrew is aware / awaiting a GPU for testing ) otherwise great. ( might have something to do with the new Fermi archi ) I run OCTANE Render on it no problems at all ( it has hit 92 degrees - and the only time she gets hot... but Radiance @ Octane Render has been running them hot with no issues ) OCTANE uses CUDA Octane is setup to use GPU's that are not in SLI...have a product on there site for externaly housing GPU ( up to 4 of I believe ) Have had no issues with any other software. ( Vue, DS Studio, Hexagon, Carrara, ZBrush ) Would liked to have seen more RAM on the GTX480 ( 1536mb ) GTX470 ( 1280mb ) ( 480 is worth the price difference - personal opionion of course ) Use the compare section from the link below: http://www.nvidia.com/content/HelpMeChoose/fx2/HelpMeChoose.asp?lang=en-us Still experimenting and learning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted May 31, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I don't see what the excitement is all about regarding the Octane Renderer, as it's very limited regarding what you can do with materials/shaders, and it doesn't render animations. You have to go through a ridiculous workaround to get an animation out of it. The render has to shut down and restart with each frame. 3ds Max 2011 has a new GPU/CPU hybrid renderer (QuickSilver)that has far, far fewer limitations...so, I'd be wasting my time and money with Octane. Same goes with Lightwave having FPrime that's just about as interactive without all the shader/material/animation limitations. It may be nice for Blender folks who may not yet have a fast interactive renderer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Laticis Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I suppose the excitement about Octane Render would be the price. (Entry Level) Still in beta development, hopefully this young program will have a bright future and the more we can support developers like this the better. ( healthy future competition ) I would love to try / have access to 3D Max, Lightwave and other industry leaders but first I need to be able to afford it. ( this is of course a goal ) My latest step toward this was a PC designed to handle more than the basics. I don't even try the demos just in case.... it's like pointless window shopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 For 60US I didnt hesitate. Its the price of a cheap rubber shoes. Its the only affordable gpu unbiased renderer around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm not terribly excited by Octane, I'm just looking at it. But yeah, for $60 you could pick it up and then probably get cheap upgrades when it does handle animation. Anyway back the 480, I would normally agree with the "if you can afford it buy it" thought, except that it's brand new and a lot more money than it's slightly shorter cousin, so I'd hate to see the price drop immediately after I bought it. Also for those of you that run it, what kind of power supply do you have? I currently have a 650w Antec which is technically enough, but just barely. If I had to upgrade that it would be another expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Laticis Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hi Phil, Your power supply should be fine though it is cutting it close. No option for SLI if required for the future. I'm sure I read some where for 2 x GTX480 in SLI 800w PSU required. ( using Corsair 950w ) There is no such thing a future proofing but risks can be minimized. As for how much the pricing will drop depends on the market, it was hard to get my hands on one in Australia and I don't think they have flooded the market here yet. I paid $ 841 AUS, a couple of weeks later found a site selling for them $ 750.00 but no stock. Q: Does brand name make a difference to the finished product when it comes to GPU's ? Have the GTX465 hit the market there yet ? http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-465-us.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I was looking at these EVGA models: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130549 (470) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130552 (480) Yes I see Newegg also has the 465 from various companies, all the same price. Newegg always seems to have the best deals I can find, I bought ll the parts in my current computer there. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=nvidia+gtx+465&x=0&y=0 Of course I shouldn't get my hopes up until I actually start this new job and have some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Jokermax Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 i have evga 480 - its fast, has dx11 and tesselation etc. BUT - 3dcoat cuda does not run and it has some shadow filtering problems. I suggest waiting a month or so - it will get cheaper and better supported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Racush Posted May 31, 2010 Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I'm not terribly excited by Octane, I'm just looking at it. But yeah, for $60 you could pick it up and then probably get cheap upgrades when it does handle animation. Anyway back the 480, I would normally agree with the "if you can afford it buy it" thought, except that it's brand new and a lot more money than it's slightly shorter cousin, so I'd hate to see the price drop immediately after I bought it. Also for those of you that run it, what kind of power supply do you have? I currently have a 650w Antec which is technically enough, but just barely. If I had to upgrade that it would be another expense. When I built this current system I grabbed a Antec 1000Watt power supply since at some point in time I wish to SLI this system (if lucky 3-way SLI) but you should be cool with the current setup you have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Ghostdog Posted May 31, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Octane does have animation guys. Turntable & daylight/sun comes as spec + plugins available. "Octane Render has built-in turntable and daylight simulation animation with true physically correct motion blur. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted May 31, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hi Phil, Your power supply should be fine though it is cutting it close. No option for SLI if required for the future. I'm sure I read some where for 2 x GTX480 in SLI 800w PSU required. ( using Corsair 950w ) There is no such thing a future proofing but risks can be minimized. As for how much the pricing will drop depends on the market, it was hard to get my hands on one in Australia and I don't think they have flooded the market here yet. I paid $ 841 AUS, a couple of weeks later found a site selling for them $ 750.00 but no stock. Q: Does brand name make a difference to the finished product when it comes to GPU's ? Have the GTX465 hit the market there yet ? http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-465-us.html Brand names don't really mean much because all of the card manufacturers are capable of putting out good cards. They either use a stock reference board and stock cooler or modified for Overclocking. MSI, ASUS, and Galaxy usually have outstanding aftermerket coolers installed at the factory, and hence the card not only runs cooler and more quiet, but they have plenty of overclocking headroom. So, a GTX 470 Overclocked will outperform a stock 480...saving you a couple hundred $$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Brand names don't really mean much because all of the card manufacturers are capable of putting out good cards. They either use a stock reference board and stock cooler or modified for Overclocking. MSI, ASUS, and Galaxy usually have outstanding aftermerket coolers installed at the factory, and hence the card not only runs cooler and more quiet, but they have plenty of overclocking headroom. So, a GTX 470 Overclocked will outperform a stock 480...saving you a couple hundred $$$. Yeah I noticed the EVGO 470 I linked to above says it's "Super clocked", so that might make it worth it to get that one instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted May 31, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 Yeah I noticed the EVGO 470 I linked to above says it's "Super clocked", so that might make it worth it to get that one instead. As Octane will use a 2nd card, you might get a 465 now (and overclock the dickens out of it), and when the 485 comes out and comes down in price, you can add that to a 2nd card slot (if you have one on your MB). This is the kind of aftermarket cooling I was talking about: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261072 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted May 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2010 I think I actually have a 2nd slot, but the arrangement in the case won't let it fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted June 1, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 I think I actually have a 2nd slot, but the arrangement in the case won't let it fit. Do you mean 2nd gfx pcie slot? According to the octane forum you don't need to plug the other cards into a gfx slot. Any pcie 8x will do and octane will detect it. OT. one of the cool thing in octane forum is they have a licensed customer badge. The programmer over there is serious about piracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Laticis Posted June 1, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 So things to consider: Best single GPU for your current system( MB / PSU ), dollars and use. What size you would like your 3D Coat textures at ? ( RAM on GPU important for this I believe ) When would you next be looking at a total system overhaul ? Will the GTX 465 / 470 / 480 acutally fit into your case ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member SYN7AX3RR0R Posted June 1, 2010 Member Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 i've got a BFG 8800 GTS OC 320MB, i have no issues with voxels in 3DC CUDA 64 (OS: win7). the issues you guys are experiencing is that something specific to the 470/480 series and 3DC? i was thinking of upgrading soon, and this is valuable info, thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Racush Posted June 1, 2010 Member Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 i've got a BFG 8800 GTS OC 320MB, i have no issues with voxels in 3DC CUDA 64 (OS: win7). the issues you guys are experiencing is that something specific to the 470/480 series and 3DC? i was thinking of upgrading soon, and this is valuable info, thanks in advance. as it was put there was something changed with the 470/480 cards so 3d coat was not setup for those new changes. Andrew is working on it so we should get a fix soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 So things to consider: Best single GPU for your current system( MB / PSU ), dollars and use. What size you would like your 3D Coat textures at ? ( RAM on GPU important for this I believe ) When would you next be looking at a total system overhaul ? Will the GTX 465 / 470 / 480 acutally fit into your case ? I would love to be able to use really big texture images (more than one 8k map at least) Next overhaul I think won't be for a while. I'd like to upgrade to a Core i7, which would basically require an overhaul. But I buy all parts and put them together anyway So as long as this card would work with whatever new mobo I get I'll be golden. Good point about the size, I measured and they are the same length as my 8800 GTS so it should be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted June 1, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 as it was put there was something changed with the 470/480 cards so 3d coat was not setup for those new changes. Andrew is working on it so we should get a fix soon. Exactly...for now, just use the NON-CUDA version. On a graphic card that stout, I doubt you'll notice any tangible difference. The biggest performance issues in 3DC have no bearing on CUDA...it's the long merge calculation times and such, and they are CPU related.I asked Andrew if he could enable a "Cache to Disk" icon at the bottom of the Vox Tree panel, so the user has the ability to offload all the data in hidden layers from RAM to a temp cache file in the 3DC directory. I think that in itself could enhance performance considerably, as the only thing taking up RAM would be your current active layer. If that is done, I think you'll see folks getting higher resolution sculpts out of Voxels. He said he'd consider it...stay tuned. Back on the Octane issue, if the developer could somehow utilize NVidia's/Mental Images MetaSL shaders, THAT would be a boon for them, and I would hope that with his use of CUDA, that NVidia would be happy to help him implement it. Max already is working with MetaSL shaders, and I'm sure Maya and XSI will soon as well. Reason being that it is intended to be a very portable shader system, that can be easily moved about in a pipeline. So, you could conceivably export a file that has MetaSL shaders and render it out in Octane straightaway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Laticis Posted June 1, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 I would love to be able to use really big texture images (more than one 8k map at least) Next overhaul I think won't be for a while. I'd like to upgrade to a Core i7, which would basically require an overhaul. But I buy all parts and put them together anyway So as long as this card would work with whatever new mobo I get I'll be golden. Good point about the size, I measured and they are the same length as my 8800 GTS so it should be just fine. Apart from the maths ( which I hope is right ) I am not sure how it works from this point: My old 32Bit system has a GeForce 8500 GT ( 512Mb ) and struggles big time as soon as I go above 2048 x 2048. Where else is GPU Ram being used ? ( Screen view / mesh / ? ? ? ) http://www.3d-coat.com/wiki/index.php/13.1_FYI! 8 x Bytes = 1 x Pixel 1024 x 1024 = 1,048,576 pixels = 8,388,608 bytes = 8Mb 2048 x 2048 = 4,194,304 pixels = 33,554,432 bytes = 32Mb 4096 x 4096 = 16,777,216 pixels = 134,217,728 bytes = 128Mb 8196 x 8196 = 67,108,864 pixels = 536,870,912 bytes = 512Mb When looking for a new motherboard make sure it will support the new 6 Cores as well as SLI / Crossfire and double / tripple check the PCIE ports (x 16 + x 16 + x 8 + x at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted June 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2010 That's strange, my card has less ram, 320MB but I'm usually fine with using several 4k textures. However it won't let me add more than 1 8k texture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Laticis Posted June 2, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 2, 2010 That is very interesting, I thought the issue was with my GPU...may look into this a little more now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member gogolo Posted June 17, 2010 Member Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 http://www.3d-coat.com/wiki/index.php/13.1_FYI! 8 x Bytes = 1 x Pixel 1024 x 1024 = 1,048,576 pixels = 8,388,608 bytes = 8Mb 2048 x 2048 = 4,194,304 pixels = 33,554,432 bytes = 32Mb 4096 x 4096 = 16,777,216 pixels = 134,217,728 bytes = 128Mb 8196 x 8196 = 67,108,864 pixels = 536,870,912 bytes = 512Mb When looking for a new motherboard make sure it will support the new 6 Cores as well as SLI / Crossfire and double / tripple check the PCIE ports (x 16 + x 16 + x 8 + x at least. Hi, I want to ask why 3DC use 8 x Bytes = 1 x Pixel ? a 8bit RGBA image just use 4 bytes/pixel, Is 3DC use 16bit texture in paint room ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member splodge Posted June 17, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Hi, I want to ask why 3DC use 8 x Bytes = 1 x Pixel ? a 8bit RGBA image just use 4 bytes/pixel, Is 3DC use 16bit texture in paint room ? They're probably including the depth (normal map) and specular when summing up the bytes per pixel. color - 3 bytes alpha - 1 byte normal map - 3 bytes specular - 1 byte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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