artman

3.3.09 surf-vox "smoothing" artifacts

30 posts in this topic

post-1195-12806889384181_thumb.jpg

Very easy to reproduce with steps described here.

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5870

Its been 6 builds now and problem is still there while it has been confirmed by other users and steps are easy to reproduce.

Not to put pressure on you but Im loosing a lot of time smoothing those artifacts instead of actually sculpting.

The higher the resolution the longer it takes to smooth them...and Im lucky there is no fine details under the artifacts

because I dont know how I would be able to smooth them.

Also superlongstanding "squares dance" problem when using Surface smooth must be fixed once and for all.

(problem is there since 3.1.18!)

I read your answer on the matter once again but the answer is not logical.

It happens because normals are calculated in different way in voxel and surface modes and it is impossible to make method of calculation the same.

Normals in voxel mode are smoother. If you start paint over surface then touched pieces will look slightly more coarse because of normals calculation method.

I have no Idea how to improve it.

Its not logical because:

1)...It only happens in new Surface mode not ancient surface mode.

If it was the nature of surface mode then the problem would also be in older surface mode.

(try 3.1.14 or 3.1.17....problem is not there.)

If you start paint over surface then touched pieces will look slightly more coarse because of normals calculation method.

2)Its not when you start painting over the surface its only when using Surface smooth ,all others surface brushes does not create that problem.

3)Its not "slightly more coarse" as you said ..its a real dance of square patterns that completely stops me from seeing what Im doing.

I dont care if surface is more coarse that is not the problem.

4)Problem happens when you return to surface mode after going to surface mode and back to voxel a first time.

That is the most important clue for you to solve that mystery:It does not happen the first time you go in Surface mode,only the second time and it gets worse each time you leave and come back.(using Enter or cubeicon is the same).

Thanx.

(I dont have a MB or Zb license so I cant finish the sculpting there.)

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post-1195-12806911680097_thumb.jpg

Please look at the squares...its not "slightly more coarse",its impossible to see what is under the big squares pattern when I work.

Way to reproduce:

Merge default sphere primitive with default resolution or even more if you like.

Go in surface mode.

Use Sf Clay brush and try to do a nose and eyes and line under eyes...smooth your strokes when you work.

Do strokes and smooth,do strokes and smooth and so on....

Notice that everything looks NICE.Of course surface is more coarse but its not a problem.

Now,return to voxel mode and return back to Surface mode.

Try the above steps again....Now,little squares start to appear and dance under your brush when you use Sf.Smooth.

If you exit and return again it will get worse and worse....

The only way to fix this is to press "increse res" .but its only a temporary fix

because if you leave surface mode and return again the problem starts over again..

Please solve this mystery.

Its totally ruining my 3DCoat sculpting experience.

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+++1

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I can only add that this happens in MAC build too. I hope issues like the above wont follow you to retopo room too. lol

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I will try to manage all this soon. For now just one hint. The artifacts from the first pic are only artifacts over normals, not surface itself. So you may try the trick when almost all is done and you are ready to bake. Clone space density, then copy the layer to the new one with "Merge to..".

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For now just one hint. The artifacts from the first pic are only artifacts over normals, not surface itself. So you may try the trick when almost all is done and you are ready to bake. Clone space density, then copy the layer to the new one with "Merge to..".

Trick works :)

Thanx

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I will try to manage all this soon. For now just one hint. The artifacts from the first pic are only artifacts over normals, not surface itself. So you may try the trick when almost all is done and you are ready to bake. Clone space density, then copy the layer to the new one with "Merge to..".

Andrew,is there any progress about those 2 issues?

I mean have you some ideas how to fix those?

thanx

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In general it may be solved using special shader that calculates normal to the surface using screen depth map. In this case it will look just like in ZB.

I will try to construct it soon just for test. But all will look slightly faceted for lowpoly objects.

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But all will look slightly faceted for lowpoly objects.

Good news.

Faceted lowpoly is not a problem for me if face display does not change when brushing. :)

Anyway,nobody is sculpting in surface mode on very lowpoly meshes,it feels best at a few hundred thousands polys at least.

I Cant wait to test this shader.

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Good news.

Faceted lowpoly is not a problem for me if face display does not change when brushing. :)

Anyway,nobody is sculpting in surface mode on very lowpoly meshes,it feels best at a few hundred thousands polys at least.

I Cant wait to test this shader.

This shader "Depth" will be included in upcoming 3.5 just for tests.

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This shader "Depth" will be included in upcoming 3.5 just for tests.

Ok,fantasttic it works!!! :D

Display is uncorrupted when using SF.Smooth even after leaving and reentering surface mode multiple times.

I use Voxel/Surface switching mode a lot so its a great relief for me.

Anyway,sooner or later users would have start to complain about this.

Problems affecting display are always critical so its a big fix I think.

Only issues:

The shader seems based on the Redwax shader ,which is not a very cool shader to use because it makes all cavities white.

Even Zb redwax shader doesnt make cavities white,actually Zb redwax is like Picmat_redwax.

So,if you could make a Picmat version of this shader it would be just what I need to sculpt with freedom and visibility.

Or ...if you are unable to make a Picmat version ,maybe a Lamblight version or in worstcase Cook-Torance?

But Lamblight and Picmats are best for sculpting from my small experience.

I find Redwax,Bronze and Default shader very hard to sculpt with.

Anyway..it works! :)

Thanx

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F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C !!!! :yahoo: totally amazing shader. But I agree with artman. A little bit tweaking and that will be superb feature.

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Ok,here is a gray version of the depth shader for those who want it ,

until Andrew is able to make a "picmat compatible"version of this shader.

Also cavities dont have the annoying "white highlight" there is in Redwax shader.

I really dont know what I did,I just killed every single color values to 0.5. :D

It ends up feeling a lot like a desatured Lamblight shader and...I like it a lot,its very comfortable for sculpting.

I only modified the Hlsl so its for Dx version not Gl version of 3DCoat.

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Thanks for the shader tweak. :)

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Thanks Artman. That helps for now. When I looked the depth shader. It seams that the cavity white color is only shading the wireframe

of the sculpt. So it's quite interesting issue. But this is only testing version so it's getting better for sure.

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artman very very good shader, thanks!)

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Unfortunately both have a big problem when viewing in orthographic mode.

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Unfortunately both have a big problem when viewing in orthographic mode.

Yes, now it can't work in ortho mode, but it will be fixed.

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This is the package with 2 new shaders - LambLight and PicMat (HLSL and GLSL)

128455659133.jpg128455656790.jpg

http://www.3d-coat.com/files/DepthShaders.3dcpack

(File->Install package)

You may produce most of PicMat shaders using this base.

Thanx,you rock! :)

Its funny how just something like a different shading makes brush behavior seems different,SF.Clay brush for example really feels better,more precise even if its just an illusion.

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Potentially this method may improve performance because in this case we don't need normals at all, so we can skip normals calculation and take all normals just from triangles whenever need them.

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Potentially this method may improve performance because in this case we don't need normals at all, so we can skip normals calculation and take all normals just from triangles whenever need them.

Hmmm...Interesting.Performance improvements are always welcomed :)

BTW new shading technnology solve only "square dance" display issue.

Artifacts bug on mesh described in first post of this thread is still alive.

Personnaly,its not a problem for me because the trick you suggested works

..but new users will have problems finding this trick on the forum.

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When using the new "Red Wax Depth" shader, I am getting unusual real time artifacts. Follow these steps to reproduce:

1) Start with lo res voxel sphere.

2) Increase resolution several times.

3) Select an "aggressive" material to be used as displacement mask

4) Paint on sphere with Carve Tool.

What you get is good displacement with invisible sectors, as seen in this snapshot.

In the second snapshot you can see how this renders after running AUTOPO for Per-pixel Painting

Greg Smith

post-962-12846646646195_thumb.jpg

post-962-12846652870349_thumb.jpg

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