philnolan3d Posted August 27, 2011 Report Share Posted August 27, 2011 I made a little video of me playing with the new tools. One thing I noticed is that CutOff doesn't always work on parts where the LiveClay tools have been used, though it helped if I smoothed the area a bit first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Super build! Thank you Andrew, Raul & Sergyi for your hard work! I'm really enjoying LC, these new brushes are fantastic. Not to mention all of the bug fixes. Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member LorenzoS Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Thanks for a great build guys. stamp mode works in LC. It's a bit slow but it works. The new brushes are amazing. Thanks for all the hard work. 3DC is shaping up to be one super program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 OK. I can't work with these LC tools. It's obviously me only. Or it's a mac build issue. I through this away. You mean it is not working at all or you mean that it is not as good as Sculptris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 You mean it is not working at all or you mean that it is not as good as Sculptris? Thanks for responding Andrew. The mac build works fast and it's stable. LC works as in Phil's video. Terrible stretching that can't be fixed. Too many edges on vertices, this is dangerous. Reading all these wows here... I can't understand. These tools are practically useless. Yes Andrew, performance of sculptris makes it a useful tool. Miles ahead, sorry to say this, but it's true. The new build, exporting decimated meshes under voxels palette: improved somehow but I still get non manifolds. I have to smooth two three times for not having them. It's a random issue. In general it works after 3-4 tries with slightly different decimation factor. In any case I loaded 20-30 M voxels and performance was excellent again. A nice build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted August 28, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Confirmed on the mesh exploding. Win32 non-cuda, newest beta. Waiting to test 64 bit Linux version when it is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Thanks for responding Andrew. The mac build works fast and it's stable. LC works as in Phil's video. Terrible stretching that can't be fixed. Too many edges on vertices, this is dangerous. Reading all these wows here... I can't understand. These tools are practically useless. Yes Andrew, performance of sculptris makes it a useful tool. Miles ahead, sorry to say this, but it's true. What terrible stretching that can't be fixed? I haven't seen any of that in my tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Rich_Art Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 No problem here win7 64bits Cuda.. Peace, Rich_Art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 What terrible stretching that can't be fixed? I haven't seen any of that in my tests. Joking now, right? Here a capture from the app you don't like. Same tool. Watch how smooth remeshing works... and some insist that Sc is slow. Ha, notice how many calculations may be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Those are all easily fixable with a few strokes from the Smooth tool and/or Reduce tool. I did the same thing here, no stretching. I have noticed a couple of spots where SnakeClay tears a hole in the mesh. Actually it looks more like one triangle poly is missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi all So summarizing.. what are the reported bugs/suggestions? 1- rename (can be easily done) 2- some stretching in tube and snake tool? 3- invert behavior? (I don't see an actual invert behavior for Snake, in that sense is not a symmetrical tool, Tube invert works fine, Wrinkle? I can think something of because the current invert behavior is not the intended ) please, feel free to explain me the issues. Cheers Farsthary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 4. is the triangle holes I mentioned above, I see them frequently. They always appear at the start of a snake stroke. DX 64 Cuda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Oh, I saw the first hole here .... I will see what that happens.... thanks I think it may happen with bigger brushes and relative low detail subdivision and/or fast move, because faces may fall outside the influence radius before they have time to get correctly subdivided... I will need to impose some restrictions and improve this situation The speed of stroking has a great influence in the output quality of snake, slower stroke gives smoother results while too fast you get easily stretching problems... this may happen because of the way it is handle that event currently .... a current workaround may be to use a slow/moderate speed and avoid too fast stroking. definitely I need to work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Stressing sculptris I got stretching problems too, though is more robust the method :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Yes, I also tested sculptris just now and found very similar stretching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi all So summarizing.. what are the reported bugs/suggestions? Hi Raul, may I bring up something new (but LC-related)? It's good that Liveclay now works with Stamp-Mode - but it doesn't work nicely as no refinement takes place. My suggestion would be: The longer one holds LMB in place after the final size was set by draging the more the LC-resolution refines. For Stamp-Mode with movable brush I would suggest: The longer one keeps the Brush in its initial position before starting to move the Pen the more refined the Resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted August 28, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi all So summarizing.. what are the reported bugs/suggestions? 1- rename (can be easily done) 2- some stretching in tube and snake tool? 3- invert behavior? (I don't see an actual invert behavior for Snake, in that sense is not a symmetrical tool, Tube invert works fine, Wrinkle? I can think something of because the current invert behavior is not the intended ) please, feel free to explain me the issues. Cheers Farsthary These are just my experiences and opinions they,by no means,summarize what others may have come across as issues. Comment on WrinckleClay: -I dont see relation between WrinkleClay and Sculptris Crease brush. Crease brush does nice pinched extrusion/indent,it dig in/out the mesh and is optimised to work well with Lazy option(soft stroke/interpolate/Lazy mouse/Steady stroke...whatever we call it). Wrinkleclay does a very little extrusin/indent effect. Its a good pinch brush but personnaly,as a sculptor I wasnt able to do any wrinkles with it. Missing : -Invert tool action checbox...holding Ctrl a long time is a strain so checkbox is necessary. Lowpoly problem: -On my side,it seems brushs works very well now except when using very lowpoly mesh. See image: It does not happens on my higher res tests....again,its just me here. Feature requests: (some not related to Dynamic Tessaltion but maybe you can help...like you did with radial symmetry): -a Flatten/Polish brush (a brush that smooth and average/flatten surface at the same time). It must have strength/depth slider and work well with small radius in narrow places that have a lot of different normal directions. It must be able to average very well inside brush radius in narrow complicated surfces. Try Polish D brush in Zbrush demo if you can. It does not have to involve dynamic tesselation -A Crease brush. Not like WrinkleClay...I mean try Sculptris Crease brush and copy the effect.I mean literally copy it. it has to gives same effect with same radius and brush movement on mesh. Or try Dam Standard id Zbrush as Beatkitano suggested its more or less the same principle. A soft pinch mixed a sharp extrusin/intrusion that is compatible with alphas and works well with 3DCoat "interpolate "(formerly known as soft stroke..) We use that all the time for skin wrinkles,clothes armor damage(slashes in metal ect...) - a "distance" setting added to interpolate...we need to be able to make more precise,longer strokes.Interpolate right now feels like a big wiggly lasso,even with high values Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 At least you noticed stretching problem phil. Now after some testing: Behavior of LC tools is much more stable on dense meshes (starting on a 4M voxel as base) It took me some time to figure out what the three parameters of the tool means. Not quite logical, the smoothing value I mean. But I tried hard to increase density in some areas. This can be achieved using very small brushes. @ farsthary what is missing is the opposite of a reducer tool. It's a remesher, right? It could be nicely combined with smoothing. What you tried in sculptris isn't the way we work there. You used the grab tool, you should increase tessellation full and avoid to make it with a single stroke. After this, use the reducer (remesher) + and - See? it's this remesher the key. We could just increase density in some areas and perfectly work with the surface tools. We don't always need dynamic tessellation. In fact you could provide just a remesher, nothing else. Joking a little but it's the most important. Another important is the ability to directly import an obj to surface mode, can we do this or I missed something? Exporting directly from Surf mode, after LC operations is perfect. From voxels, not always (non manifolds in many cases) The main build is OK, well done. sorry artman, posting the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi Good news! I have solved Tube issues now it just behaves as build up and is quite good, no more stretching if you fall outside to the pen influence, now is quite safe Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted August 28, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Another important is the ability to directly import an obj to surface mode, can we do this or I missed something? Exporting directly from Surf mode, after LC operations is perfect. From voxels, not always (non manifolds in many cases) Check "import without voxelizing" in merge tool. Point will maybe be reordered on export tough,so you cant load them back as a subdlevel in mudbox/zb(Im not sure),but Uvs will be lost if they are any that Im sure. BTW Dynamic Tessalation always produce uneven topology,you have noticed by now. It seems you are expecting good topology out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 @Michalis I see your point, to get a remesher effect, simply use LiveClay brush without deform, just set the deform curve to cero and you will get the remesh effect, on the other hand a global subdivision command can be easily added for surface mode, in early alphas it was implemented already.... @Artman I may have some good news upcomming for you, the flatten smooth may be similar to a new TangentSmooth tool that will be soon included, it does quite good from clean topology, to no shrinkage smoothing/relaxation up to full shrinkage relaxation/flattening And about a full Crease, yes, I can work on this too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 simply use LiveClay brush without deform deform? where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 deform? where is it? he means with 0% depth, I use it like that all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member run Posted August 28, 2011 Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 Some of the improvements for the Copy tool aren't working for me. Specifically, shader and color do not copy from the background layers at all. Is anyone else having this issue? Any chance this ability is dependent on newish NVidia drivers? I've also seen some oddness with the "copy surface only" option. The background layer (a cube) was rotated and scaled (in world rather local space, so more precisely, skewed) and the copy result had strange black areas and ridges. Sorry didn't get a screen cap of this. I suspect 3DC is having a hard time determining the normal of the transformed bg layer and that's causing trouble. And finally, at the risk of seeming greedy, a feature request. It'd be nice if we could ghost bg layers. It would make seeing what your working on, particularly with Copy, easier. Sadly shader opacity doesn't seem to function between layers or we could use that as a workaround -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 28, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 he means with 0% depth, I use it like that all the time. Oh, it doesn't work on the mac build. 0 means 10%. I was curious about this, the first I tried. In any case this function should be in ctrl+reducer tool. It belongs logically there. artman, thanks, I forgot this. Unfortunately when importing, it badly moved symmetry. Where did this came from? Sometimes sculptris is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tom K Posted August 29, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 please, feel free to explain me the issues.Cheers Farsthary I have a suggestion concerning the new snakeclay tool. The brush starts out perpendicular to the surface it starts the stroke on, but then never changes. It would be better if it could adjust it's orientation to maintain perpendicularity to the direction of the stroke. The way it works now, if you try to pull a snake out and turn a corner, the snake flattens out because the brush doesn't turn with it. Thanks, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member LorenzoS Posted August 29, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I have a suggestion concerning the new snakeclay tool. The brush starts out perpendicular to the surface it starts the stroke on, but then never changes. It would be better if it could adjust it's orientation to maintain perpendicularity to the direction of the stroke. The way it works now, if you try to pull a snake out and turn a corner, the snake flattens out because the brush doesn't turn with it. Thanks, Tom +1. I'm expecting that feature to be added in a near future build. As it's natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted August 29, 2011 Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi guys, thank you for the support here, but don't forget our official bug reporting system. If you have isolated a bug, post it there please. It helps the development a lot(!) to orgnise all problems. We don't expect you post all your issues there, but post reproducable bugs into the system. This applies to LiveClay bugs too. -> Visit the bug reporting system. Best wishes and thank you very much! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted August 29, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 I already reported that 0 depth value on brushes means 10% on OSX builds. In voxels/surf/LC modes. LC made me notice this. Otherwise, why to use 0 value? A new OSX build please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member PoopaScoop Posted August 29, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 29, 2011 Anyone be nice enough to tell me where the livetools are hiding? Under Voxels and in surface mode I currently only have the typical tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts