philnolan3d Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yay! Sadly I. Have a crazy deadline on Monday so I'll have to wait to really play anyway. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I like this monthly update better than weekly ones. You need to download less data I agree! It gives them more time to focus on what they are doing, too, instead of worrying about some weekly deadline. Plus, we get more stuff per build than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't think Andrew considered it a deadline for the week, since it wasn't always every week, sometimes it was every two weeks with no explanation given or needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 As long as we move ever more closer to a stable, feature rich, bug free application, weekly, monthly doesn't really matter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't think Andrew considered it a deadline for the week, since it wasn't always every week, sometimes it was every two weeks with no explanation given or needed. I wasn't talking about what Andrew thought, felt or otherwise. I was meaning the imposed "deadline" that some users have in their minds, such as yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Ah yes, the users do tend to imagine a "deadline" of sorts. After getting it so frequently they are bound to expect the same will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsthary Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hi guys! new feature preview! hope you like it http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/can-you-belive-it/ Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Polygoon Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Awesome, looks great! I really like that shader too. Is that available? Would be nice to work with at night in the dark, which is when I do most my work. Can the back ground be made black also? Or can we already do this? In any case, nice work. Look forward to giving it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 24, 2011 Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Very cool! I like shader too though I think I'd prefer it in blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Spiraloid Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hi guys! new feature preview! hope you like it http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/can-you-belive-it/ Cheers very nice! can't wait to try it out. does LC support the merge and carve tools yet? -b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member kay_Eva Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hi guys! new feature preview! hope you like it http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2011/09/24/can-you-belive-it/ Cheers Aiiighghghghghghhhgh!!!! This is unbelivable So, I could import a mesh through applink and just combine it in real time with this and plus a whole lot of other things. My mind is BLOWN AWAAAAYYY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member LorenzoS Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 That looks awesome, farsthary. Looking forward to the next build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wailingmonkey Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 very impressive, farsthary!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Rich_Art Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Yeah Looks great.. :-) Peace, Rich_Art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 3D-Coat seems to be the only commercial application interested in developing this technology. Congratulations on successfully implementing its functionality and pushing digital sculpting forward! The extremely low res does worry me though (its also there in all the liveclay:fusion video's without exception). Im certain its performance related but it does make me wonder whether its your intention to make this work throughout all the brushes or will there be specific brushes/tools for when you want to merge or create holes? I could imagine this being "on" all the time on a mesh of higher resolution then what is shown here could slow down considerably. Also from what I read in the paper about it this system actually works with a fixed resolution throughout space, not unlike voxels. Since the video was sped up (please stop doing that it makes it impossible to judge performance) it was hard to really see whether there were area's with higher resolution but to me it seemed there were not. Do you plan to extend this system so it will support local tessellation? Also wanted to say that the tangent smooth brush you showed on your site has me very excited! That is forward thinking to also include reduction into the brush itself. Depending on how its implemented this is the true way to freedom when it comes to resolution (you will surpass Sculptris in that aspect). There are more brushes this could be applied to like clay, flatten and (perhaps in the future) polish. A proper implementation of this philosophy would mean that you don't ever have to use the subdivision/reduction tools on their own and can just assume the resolution of the surface will always be adjusted (up AND downwards) to make the tool act as you would expect. I have written about that (in a very cryptic form) almost two years ago; if you do this properly you will make a very long standing dream of mine come true. I'm certain you have thought about this long and hard but I just want to give one more example on why this makes me so happy. It will make the smooth brush predictable regardless of the topology it is used on. Try smoothing a spike pulled from a surface into nothing with normal mesh sculpting. It is impossible as the resolution will intensify as the spike gets more smoothed up to the point the tool will no longer have an effect. Even Zbrush suffers from that. Voxel sculpting however does it perfectly because it really did smooth volume away (by removing voxels). This has an effect on more tools then just smooth and was one of my major likes for voxel sculpting. Now by smart coding you create that benefit for dynamic tessellation sculpting. Absolutely superb! I know it might look weird that I spend two paragraphs on something so "basic" while you just made the first steps towards topology freedom but creating a great sculpting package is not only about implementing the newest technology. Its just as much about having vision and realizing what things are important. I really hope that having you as the main coder for the sculpting segment of 3D-Coat you will put as much skill and effort into the brushes themselves as in the other area's. And im not talking about creating a hundred of them. Im talking about a small set of core brushes that are perfectly tweaked and fit into a flexible brush configuration system. The lack of this has been part of the problem of 3D-Coat up till now. Don't let the technology you are developing right now go to waste in the end. I beg of you. On a related note. Was this the update for the weekend or will there be a beta released today so we can actually get a hands on with this new technology? I'd love to "feel" it and create some simple sculpts with it. Much like in the old days when voxel sculpting was still brand, brand new. (good times) 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 @3dioot I love to read your notes. I fully support all you said. About resolution issues. A dynamic tessellated mesh at 3-4 M is more than enough. I tried to import a ~1 M sculptris mesh and worked using the few LC tools, I was able to go very high on resolution, where sculptris simply can't and more importantly maintaining great performance. Smooth-increase, smooth -reduce is sometimes helpful. Smooth could be an option for many tools, parametric adjustable tools then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Also from what I read in the paper about it this system actually works with a fixed resolution throughout space, not unlike voxels. Since the video was sped up (please stop doing that it makes it impossible to judge performance) it was hard to really see whether there were area's with higher resolution but to me it seemed there were not. Do you plan to extend this system so it will support local tessellation? Our approach is not related to the article you referring. It was just inspiration source - why not to do like this but for not uniform geometry? Our method allows non-uniform geometry density without problems. Algorithm is completely different. It will not be included in nearest update, it is still too raw. And it works without slowdown, essentially faster than voxels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Agreed on smooth+reduce poly, could be an option though, because in certain case you want to retain polycount for the neighbor areas. "This brush provide a wide range of smoothing/relaxation options, with no depth it improves topology but does not shrink the mesh, as it maintains the original shape as much as possible and all relaxation happen over the surface, with depth it perform smoothing with a user controlled shrinkage factor, very useful for clean topology and/or more fine tune of the mesh than the standard Smooth" Directly from his site (research ftw). When i talk about a great brush system it includes being highly configurable. My hope is that the ability to reduce and the amount it applies will be a standard option of the brush system. This means I can use it in combination with any brush; even ones I create myself. Currently in 3D-Coat many (way too many) brushes are "isolated" and (seem) hard coded. For example you have Rapid and Rapid2. One of them is "smooth". Its ridiculous. If you take a look at Zbrush it shows a much more elegant approach. Everybody thinks that the clay brush is wildly different from the standard brush. But this is simply not true. If i would copy the standard brush and change its brush setting I could make it a perfect clay brush. I only have to change three settings for it. The brush sampling, the brush offset and finally enable buildup. Tadaah; perfect clay brush. If i put a square alpha on it I will have claytubes. If i dont I wont. Its perfect. In stark contrast 3D-Coat does not allow to turn on buildup per brushes. No, instead it has a hardcoded brush for it called, wait for it, "buildup". Its such an incredibly poor way to go about it I cannot wrap my head around it to this day. I just hope Raul does appreciate the importance of this. We shall see in time. 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Our approach is not related to the article you referring. It was just inspiration source - why not to do like this but for not uniform geometry? Our method allows non-uniform geometry density without problems. Algorithm is completely different. It will not be included in nearest update, it is still too raw. And it works without slowdown, essentially faster than voxels. Awesome! @Michaelis It almost feels like I did not leave. "parametric adjustable tools then." Yes please. 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Updated to 3.5.25 (win now, osx+linux - couple days later) - LC updated. All tools are still in very beta stage. Some of them may be removed or essentially changed later. - I made possibility to paint over materials and masks directly in 3D-Coat -http://bit.ly/oY8ojw - I made realtime preview for Sketch tool. You will see summary volume immediately while painting. It works without any lag or slowdown. It is still not fully optimized, so painting over the really big images may be slow. It will be resolved very soon. - I made smarter edge picking algorithm for retopo room. If edge is under surface it will be picked. But bacface edges will not be picked. Simple illustration of change - http://bit.ly/o9U17Q - Autopo improved - manual strokes will only partially influence edgeflow - only areas close to stroke bound sphere will be affected. It is important because previously adding even one stroke was discarding all original curvature surface info. So correcting autopo results was really annoying in some cases. Now strokes will have local influence. - Transform gizmo issue fixed - http://bit.ly/n1ru6U - FBX export issue solved - http://bit.ly/qTkrlB - Important change: perspective center will be on the center of viewport, not on whole window center as it was before.http://bit.ly/owqPie - Smooth & freeze issue fixed - http://bit.ly/oXc5cQ - The problem of pose tool over non voxelized object resolved -http://bit.ly/pwIkv9 - Solved problem of incorrect showing of the symmetry plane in Voxel room. - Rendering issue solved - http://bit.ly/mZBzog - Pose tool with "Through all volumes" issue solved - http://bit.ly/qYZI1I - fixed: drawing with E panel modes was hanging sometimes on very close look to model. - fixed: grow & smudge brushes was incorectly working with masks and symmetry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 @Beatkitano That request goes back all the way to the voxel alpha days. Remember how we were promised falloff curves so we would not be so dependent on alpha's? Never got them then and they are still not here today. I'm just trying to look at Pilgway like its a new team formation, with new people (Raul) and from what it seems some new priorities and pespective as well. It looks like they are all setup to create the success for themselves that 3D-Coat should have become two years ago and I really hope they manage this time. As much for them as for myself as a digital sculptor. Im super excited and if things go well (we shall see) Ill fully support Raul, from the user/artist perspective just like I supported Andrew during voxel sculpting. 3dioot PS Seems this thread is on fire! Lets check out that new build after breakfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Excuse me, but where is local add poly ? Reduce works but not add. Not understood, please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3dioot Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Thanks for the new release. Its obviously very early day and with the new developments most of it probably has to redone anyway. Its obvious all of the brushes need a lot of refinement. I just have to get one thing of my chest. There are no less then 4 (four!) toy brushes in this release. (actually there are more but I don't want a discussion about their use at this point). A toy brush is a brush that's fun to try once and then you never touch it 90% of the time. WrinkleClay RopeClay SwirlClay TendrilClay Its still early days so why should I care? I care because it IS early days where focus should be on the things that matter. There is no "standard" liveclay brush in this release. Only a "clay" liveclay (which needs work). But there are four toybrushes! I know programming is a creative act and everybody needs their playtime. I just hope this does not become a trend. 3D-Coat has enough toys as it is. What it needs is great tools. 3dioot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor tree321 Posted September 24, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 It's nice to wake up and find a new build waiting for me.Thank you.Been looking forward to trying the new sketch tool improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Well, it's painful to say cause I know what it's like to have your work trashed by comments (most of the time it's a good thing though !) but you've said what I didn't in fear of hurting Raul and Andrew. Those brushes are cool but definitely not the first I would add as a starting point. You know it's funny it's whatI thought a few weeks ago and that's the reason I started a debate about ui, saying we would soon lack space for new brushes. I guess that only adds to the preset system argument ^^ Don't worry about amount of brushes and ui there. It is very raw as I stated in my announce. In V4 UI will be different - more iconic than textual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member renderdemon Posted September 24, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Testing a bit liveclay,it's really good(good feeling) But the brushes do holes in the mesh(it seems every time you pass on the same surface location,you always have a tiny hole) Without fixing the holes problems it's impossible to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Andrew, did you change the LiveClay brush algorithm ? I can't really tell if it's different from 3.5.24 since I've spent almost all my time on another sculpting software called Kara and I lost the touch with 3dcoat. It's faster now no ? BTW, if Raul read this: please add add-subdivision (lc brush at 0 depth) as an invert function to reduce. And a move "LC enabled" would be terrific, It's what I use the most in dyn tesselation softwares, it can get you pretty far. I think LC brush itself was not changed. He was working on different issues. I will point his attention on holes issue and on reduce issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor tree321 Posted September 24, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 New sketch is awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 24, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Im not able to download (cuda64)... It say file not found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted September 24, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 24, 2011 Right now to add local subdivision without changing your mesh use the inflate tool but set depth to "0" and use falloff in the inflate clay tool dialog box. I added the triangles after increasing the local subdivision. It works very well but having an inverse action with the reduce tool would be a better spot for that type of work. Back later with more testing results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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