Member shawnlau Posted January 5, 2011 Member Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 This is more of a technical question than a program use question, but I don't see a forum category for it. I'm running a 64 bit Windows 7 OS with 8GB of RAM. Whenever I start 3d coat (64 bit version) it shows me with about 3600 mb (~3.6G) of memory available. Looking at the performance manager ( CTRL-ALT-DEL) I see this for memory : Total: 8151 Cached: 3321 Available: 6588 Free: 3351 After reading up on it, I found that Vista OS's ( Windows 7) use a "Super Fetch" system and caches certain frequently used thing in memory but relinquishing the memory if needed. I assume thats why the Performance manager shows 3G free while 6G is available. My question is why doesn't 3d Coat see the available memory and just the free memory? Could I have my system set up wrong? Will 3d Coat go into the available memory if if I start working on some high rez models? Thanks. Aside here : I purchased the program today. I had been trying it for a couple of weeks, but the $350 price tag was a bit steep for me. I don't know if its something new or I missed it before, but I was extremely happy to find a $99 version for hobbyists, non-commercial use. I wish more programs were as reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted January 5, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 This is more of a technical question than a program use question, but I don't see a forum category for it. I'm running a 64 bit Windows 7 OS with 8GB of RAM. Whenever I start 3d coat (64 bit version) it shows me with about 3600 mb (~3.6G) of memory available. Looking at the performance manager ( CTRL-ALT-DEL) I see this for memory : Total: 8151 Cached: 3321 Available: 6588 Free: 3351 After reading up on it, I found that Vista OS's ( Windows 7) use a "Super Fetch" system and caches certain frequently used thing in memory but relinquishing the memory if needed. I assume thats why the Performance manager shows 3G free while 6G is available. My question is why doesn't 3d Coat see the available memory and just the free memory? Could I have my system set up wrong? Will 3d Coat go into the available memory if if I start working on some high rez models? Thanks. Aside here : I purchased the program today. I had been trying it for a couple of weeks, but the $350 price tag was a bit steep for me. I don't know if its something new or I missed it before, but I was extremely happy to find a $99 version for hobbyists, non-commercial use. I wish more programs were as reasonable. You can bump your pagefile size up (I'd make it at least double your RAM capacity). One other thing you can do is go out and buy a hi-performance flash drive, and when you plug it in select "Enable Readyboost" when the window pops up. Windows will automatically treat it as another pagefile and use it for random read/write calls (where the flash memory is faster). It will help speed up a lot of other things in Windows, as well...including boot times and program loading. If you do that, make sure it's not just your average flash drive. They aren't all created equal. The average one transfers data between 2-5Mbs, while the hi-performance models (still pretty cheap) are around 30-33Mbs. The one I have is the Patriot XT 16GB (you can get one for around $30). This is not a substitute for RAM in anyway, though. It's not going to allow you to go past your RAM limit without some slowdown. It just adds a bit of a boost here and there, and lets you get a little closer to your RAM limit before you start to notice a performance lag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Grandmaster B Posted January 5, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 Windows reserves memory for many things but frees it automatically when it is needed by applications, you should not take the numbers too seriously tho. With 8GB you should not run into trouble too soon. As a general rule, when you increase the resolution in voxel mode the new memory usage (shown in the dialog) should not exceed the number 3D-Coat reports as free. When the real RAM depletes and windows starts using page (disk/flash) memory for active applications it is going downhill with the performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted January 5, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I would also either cache any layer that you are not actively working on or right-click and save those layers out to a .3b (3D Coat) file...then delete the layer. You can merge it back in whenever you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted January 31, 2011 Member Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 You can bump your pagefile size up (I'd make it at least double your RAM capacity). Thanks for that tip. I doubled mine and noticed a nice increase. I still have much to learn about PCs and Voxel sculpting, and really appreciate all the help here in the forum. You mentioned increasing it "at least" double your RAM. Just to be clear, I have a DDR2 SDRAM memory 6144 MB...so that means doubling the paging size would be: 12288? ...and how will I know if it is set to give the optimum performance? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted January 31, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks for that tip. I doubled mine and noticed a nice increase. I still have much to learn about PCs and Voxel sculpting, and really appreciate all the help here in the forum. You mentioned increasing it "at least" double your RAM. Just to be clear, I have a DDR2 SDRAM memory 6144 MB...so that means doubling the paging size would be: 12288? ...and how will I know if it is set to give the optimum performance? Thanks again That is correct. You don't really get "optimal performance" with a pagefile. It is just a tool Windows uses as "Virtual Memory" to keep your application from crashing when it starts to run out of RAM. It dumps a lot of non-active data from RAM and holds it temporarily, so that it can be fetched a lot faster than having search through your directories all over again. One little thing that might help is getting a High Performance USB flash drive (like Patriot XT), and plugging it into a USB port and allow Windows Vista or 7 to use it in the feature called "Readyboost." It treats it as another pagefile, but will read/write to it only if it's random calls, not long, sequential files. Flash memory is much faster for the first, whereas Hard drives are usually faster at the latter.You'll be surprised how often it lights up (showing activity). It loads programs faster and bootup times faster. Nevertheless, you can use the Split tool to divide your model into sections so you can cache the parts your aren't working on, and save quite a bit of RAM doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 1, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 You don't really get "optimal performance" with a pagefile. Gotcha. But I was wondering, since the pagefile size can be changed, how will you know at what setting of the pagefile you are getting the most benefit from it? I doubled mine, and saw a noticicable increase. But I wonder if inceasing the size even more would help even more, and if so, and how would you be able to tell how much it helped, if at all? I am going to get one of those Patriot XT Flash drives. Sounds like a good investment. First I need to get a Graphics Pen Pad. I'm thinking of the Bamboo Pen. They have another one that has a touch feature where you use your finger to do things along with the pen...is something with that feature a good idea when using 3DCOAT or is the pen enough? Do you have any recomendations? Thanks again for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted February 1, 2011 Report Share Posted February 1, 2011 I've heard it said before that twice the size of your ram is the optimum size for the page file, more or less will be slower however for Vista and 7 I've also heard that Vista automatically handles this and and your best bet is to just leave it alone. This page even puts that in bold text. That was just the first Google result. I think the pen is fine That's what most people use, the I don't know much about that touch feature but most of windows linux and mac is designed with small buttons for clicking on with a mouse or pen. The Bamboo is a good choice for starting with. Before the Bamboo they made the Graphire, I have one of those that I keep in my laptop bag for art on the go. hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 8, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I've heard it said before that twice the size of your ram is the optimum size for the page file, more or less will be slower however for Vista and 7 I've also heard that Vista automatically handles this and and your best bet is to just leave it alone. Thanks, that's good to know. I'll leave it at twice the size then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted February 8, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I would HIGHLY recommend getting a 3DConnexion SpacePilot to use (it also works with 3ds Max, Maya, Softimage, C4D, Blender, Lightwave 10 layout, etc) as well. You can get them ridiculously cheap on EBay, and it will pay for itself in no time. It is the No.1 reason I don't use ZBrush or Mudbox (I bought a seat of Mudbox last year but still never get around to using it for this reason alone). 3D Coat is the ONLY sculpting/painting application that supports 3DConnexion devices. http://cgi.ebay.com/3DConnexion-SpacePilot-USB-SPACEPILOTPBR-/190499584090?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5aa8f85a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Wow I was looking at the SpaceNavigators because the Pilots were so expensive. This is the older model of Pilot but for $70 I just may go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 8, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I would HIGHLY recommend getting a 3DConnexion SpacePilot to use (it also works with 3ds Max, Maya, Softimage, C4D, Blender, Lightwave 10 layout, etc) as well. You can get them ridiculously cheap on EBay, and it will pay for itself in no time. It is the No.1 reason I don't use ZBrush or Mudbox (I bought a seat of Mudbox last year but still never get around to using it for this reason alone). 3D Coat is the ONLY sculpting/painting application that supports 3DConnexion devices. http://cgi.ebay.com/3DConnexion-SpacePilot-USB-SPACEPILOTPBR-/190499584090?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5aa8f85a Veeery interesting...I never heard of those. Thanks for the link. I'm looking at a joystick and a bunch of buttons on it. Can you tell me what it does exactly? For example, what is the joystick used for/how does that work. What are the buttons for... Can this be used along with a Bamboo Pen? I just bought one of those by the way...It's so awesome! The ability to use a pen instead of a mouse for 3D work is truly amazing! This would only cost alittle more than my Bamboo Pen and it seems like a good investment...i just need to know more about what/how it works. Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 8, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I was looking at those PATRIOT XT Flash Drives... What GB memory would you recommend for use in 3DCOAT? I see them starting at 16 GB, then 32GB on up. I have a: Windows 64 Bit 6GB Installed (RAM) memory DDR2 SDRAM MEMORY 6144 MB Intel Pentium ® Dual Core CPU Integrated Intel GMA x4500 Graphics solution Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted February 8, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Veeery interesting...I never heard of those. Thanks for the link. I'm looking at a joystick and a bunch of buttons on it. Can you tell me what it does exactly? For example, what is the joystick used for/how does that work. What are the buttons for... Can this be used along with a Bamboo Pen? I just bought one of those by the way...It's so awesome! The ability to use a pen instead of a mouse for 3D work is truly amazing! This would only cost alittle more than my Bamboo Pen and it seems like a good investment...i just need to know more about what/how it works. Thanks for the tip. Yes, you can use your pen as your mouse and with your other hand you navigate around your viewport with the SpacePilot. It's like holding a your model in one hand and painting/working on it with the other. It's very natural and speeds up you entire workflow as you don't have to stop...navigate....brush...stop...navigate, etc. etc. As for the Flash drive...16GB should be plenty. I think you can hold off on that for a while and maybe put that money toward the 3DConnexion device. You'll see what I mean once you're able to start using it. You will seldom need to reach for the keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 9, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Yes, you can use your pen as your mouse and with your other hand you navigate around your viewport with the SpacePilot. It's like holding a your model in one hand and painting/working on it with the other. It's very natural and speeds up you entire workflow as you don't have to stop...navigate....brush...stop...navigate, etc. etc. As for the Flash drive...16GB should be plenty. I think you can hold off on that for a while and maybe put that money toward the 3DConnexion device. You'll see what I mean once you're able to start using it. You will seldom need to reach for the keyboard. ???...!!! Wow Thanks for that info and ad video link. This looks like a very useful device. I'll be getting the one you have in the link for $69.12. Around the same price as the BAMBOO PEN I just got...nice! I really appreciate all the help. As Jarvis Jones has said..."COAT ON" !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Unfortunately that auction ended, but the guy said he had more than 10 of them so I'm planning to ask him about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 9, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Unfortunately that auction ended, but the guy said he had more than 10 of them so I'm planning to ask him about them. I'll ask also. Must...have...SPACE...PILOT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted February 9, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 This one is even cheaper...$49. I bought from the same retailer and you have an option to get a warranty for it. I think it was around $10 or so. Space Pilot on Ebay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Voxelman Posted February 9, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 This one is even cheaper...$49. I bought from the same retailer and you have an option to get a warranty for it. I think it was around $10 or so. Space Pilot on Ebay I'm going to go with this one. Used is used...I'll take a chance on paying this low price and save the extra $30 I would spend on the same one that is priced higher. Just in time for my Tax Return Refund...lol. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted February 10, 2011 Report Share Posted February 10, 2011 I might go for it as well, he's got a few of them for the same price. Edit: Alright I did it, just gotta wait for shipping. I hope it's in good condition. I didn't buy the one linked, I picked one of his others, as a courtesy to Voxelman. Thanks for the link Don. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Bob Morane Posted February 11, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 This one is even cheaper...$49. I bought from the same retailer and you have an option to get a warranty for it. I think it was around $10 or so. Space Pilot on Ebay What the ... Unfortunately, access to this particular item has been blocked due to legal restrictions in some countries. We are blocking your viewing in an effort to prevent restricted items from being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases, we may prevent users from accessing items that are not within the scope of said restrictions because of limitations of existing technology. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope you may find other items of interest on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted February 11, 2011 Report Share Posted February 11, 2011 That's strange, it works fine here in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Colwax Posted February 12, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 That's strange, it works fine here in the US. That US eBay link for the Space Pilot works here within Australia too... @Bob, ...could there possibly be some form of a "location setting" within your Browser or Anti Virus that's stopping you going there? regards Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Bob Morane Posted February 12, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 Or maybe some limitation set for EU. It wouldn't be the first time some online market would prevent EU people from accessing some items Cheapest one i see is $100. Oh well, i might put this on my "save for" list, but probably not before i have upgraded the rest of my hardware. 3DCoat really makes me notice the limitations of my 32bit machine's RAM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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