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pmG's* Dare To Share � * $10 *Challenge


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What you don't know is if the company is in a bad state, this could well be an elaborate plan to make interests on the grabbed money and this bar will only meet her goal when the interest compensate the loss between the real price and this "discount". And if they are in a REALLY bad shape, they could well make the bar never met the goal, refund everyone and still make substancial money... and hope that some ofthose who tried the demo and got familiar with the software buy a full price license afterward.

This whole operation is either a genius marketing plan with a good intent, or huge scam...

I hope this is the first one, I bought one license nonetheless.

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I started off thinking it was a small gamble one worth taking, but by the time that bar got to 50% all if any fears subsided and the realisation that their brilliant marketing strategy was working made me feel I had spent my money wisely. I purchased 2 pro versions, one for use and one for safe keeping. It couldn't have come at a better time, with my recent purchase of Lightwave 10, the use of Messiah, Lightwave and 3D Coat will leave me no excuses. It is high time I pulled my finger out and started doing some serious s**t.

What ever their reasons I am glad they have done it and I congratulate them for a an outstanding campaign. :clapping:

Messiah has spread like a wild fire throughout the CG community, I wonder if there will be a write up about it in 3D World Magazine

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Brilliant marketing?....Messiah is spreading like wildfire in the CG Community?....will it be in 3D World magazine?

It's a good opportunity for many to "give it a shot" where they wouldn't have before, but I don't know that it was a financially "brilliant" marketing plan for the Messiah Team. It might seem "brilliant" to those of us on the receiving end, but it could also backfire and dry up their sales for the next year or two. Only time will tell. Personally, I think a simple (time limited) price drop to 50% off or something, instead, would've sparked a good deal of interest...from those who honestly would use it. With it being so cheap, I'd guess that less than half of the people who bought in will actually ever use it. Most are probably doing so "just in case" they do get around to it.

I don't even know yet, if I will use it, as I really like the CAT rigging/animation system in 3ds Max. It has some bugs that Autodesk has yet to fix (they are doing a core re-write on it), so that's why I'm thinking that Messiah might be a good backup option. Nevertheless, Messiah does look like it could be a very nice Posing and Rendering solution for 3D Coat users.

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It is possible their sales where already starting to dry up and that could be what sparked this campaign. Sales are all about the numbers and it would be interesting to to see what their target was, I'm sure there was a lot of table talk before their big release.

Lets say only 50% of their new client base continue to use Messiah over the next year and 25% incorporate it Messiah into their workflow, this will almost guarantee sales at upgrade time where there might not have been before. There will also be immediate smaller sales in memberships, tutorials and resources.

Would they have ended up with the same figures on a 50% off sale, possibly, but their name is well and truly out there now and forum conversation will continue for many days, even weeks after the target has been reached. Lets just hope release runs smoothly, there are still many ways this fire can get out of hand.

I had never heard of Messiah before this and neither had many others. Great Marketing.

No doubt it is a risk they have taken and I hope it pays off for them, I for one am grateful for the opportunity they have given me and many others with smaller wallets than mine.

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I don't think this sale financially hurts pmG one bit. In fact, I would say to the contrary. I bet they're making as much money, if not more than they usually do just from the shear volume. Even at $40 a pop, 2500 sales would rake in $100k. Based on the buzz I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if they're selling even more copies than that. Considering there are only three developers, they could probably pay their bills to float them over the next year of development. By then it's "upgrade" time. Even if only 10 or 20 percent of the new users upgrade, they've significantly increased their user base. Not to mention that an infusion of new users of this magnitude means growth in things like plug-in development, which can bring in and hold even more users.

So not only do they make enough money to keep themselves going for another year or so, but they also have a larger user base for upgrades later and an energized community. This is just as big a win for pmG as it is for their users. A week ago messiah studio was quietly being used in the industry and only a few knew about. Now you'd be hard pressed to find someone in the 3d community who hasn't heard of messiah studio. All in one week, without having to pay a dime for advertising. One of the most brilliant internet marketing strategies I've ever seen! :)

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+1 Dele

I think it's great too. I've wanted Messiah for a long time, but didn't want to take the large financial plunge. Upgrading would be a different story though. I am likely to upgrade software I've bought, and it's easy to be loyal to a company that offers a great deal like this. I really think this will help their sales now, & in the future.

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I don't think this sale financially hurts pmG one bit. In fact, I would say to the contrary. I bet they're making as much money, if not more than they usually do just from the shear volume. Even at $40 a pop, 2500 sales would rake in $100k. Based on the buzz I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if they're selling even more copies than that. Considering there are only three developers, they could probably pay their bills to float them over the next year of development. By then it's "upgrade" time. Even if only 10 or 20 percent of the new users upgrade, they've significantly increased their user base. Not to mention that an infusion of new users of this magnitude means growth in things like plug-in development, which can bring in and hold even more users.

So not only do they make enough money to keep themselves going for another year or so, but they also have a larger user base for upgrades later and an energized community. This is just as big a win for pmG as it is for their users. A week ago messiah studio was quietly being used in the industry and only a few knew about. Now you'd be hard pressed to find someone in the 3d community who hasn't heard of messiah studio. All in one week, without having to pay a dime for advertising. One of the most brilliant internet marketing strategies I've ever seen! :)

Again...when you're on the receiving end and it benefits YOU, it's very easy to reason why it was..."BRILLIANT!" However, you don't really know that it is...you just know that you like getting a good deal. Don't we all. This "could" be a desperate....not brilliant...risk. You don't know. Neither do I. Claiming a give away "brilliant" just because more people will know about and jump on a give away, doesn't make it so.

It's like going on a week-long hiking trip deep into no man's land and take only a day's worth of supplies, assuming that there will be some small shops to resupply along the way. Is that brilliant? This give away will effectively KILL sales for the next year or two. Practically anyone who would have bought between now and then will have already jumped on the give away. It really is tantamount to exchanging a years salary (dispersed in weekly installments) for one month's salary in a lump sum. How you can spin that as genius is beyond me.

Maybe it will serve their purposes and maybe it won't. But to to call a give away "BRILLIANT" marketing, at this point, is rather ridiculous.

Suppose you tell a prospective client that you'll do the first job free...and then they tell a bunch of their buddies that you're giving away free work. They all gladly decide to take you up on the same deal. You THINK you just scored a BUNCH of new clients...even though you've effectively consigned yourself to slaving away for an extended period of time, while losing your shirt and unable to pay the bills.

...But there will be a BIG payday just around the corner, right? Then as soon as it comes time to score on all those paying gigs, you find that the same companies that took your offer for free work, no longer need/want your services and/or go elsewhere.

Now, just how BRILLIANT is that? You got all that attention you wanted, but for the wrong reasons and now you're reaping the wrong results. In this case, only time will dictate whether it will pay off or backfire.

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I've had some of those clients at work and outside of work, all fine and dandy until they have to start paying then they just disappear or become disgruntled because you have to start charging.

All we can do at this point is wait and see what happens.

Maybe they are all rolling in money and have decided to give back to the community at large :blink:

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Again...when you're on the receiving end and it benefits YOU, it's very easy to reason why it was..."BRILLIANT!" However, you don't really know that it is...you just know that you like getting a good deal. Don't we all. This "could" be a desperate....not brilliant...risk. You don't know. Neither do I. Claiming a give away "brilliant" just because more people will know about and jump on a give away, doesn't make it so.

It's like going on a week-long hiking trip deep into no man's land and take only a day's worth of supplies, assuming that there will be some small shops to resupply along the way. Is that brilliant? This give away will effectively KILL sales for the next year or two. Practically anyone who would have bought between now and then will have already jumped on the give away. Yeah...that's totally genius. It really is tantamount to exchanging a years salary (dispersed in weekly intallments) for one month's salary in a lump sum. How you can spin that as genius is beyond me.

Maybe it will serve their purposes and maybe it won't. But to to call a give away "BRILLIANT" marketing, at this point, is rather ridiculous.

Suppose you tell a prospective client that you'll do the first job free...and then they tell a bunch of their buddies that you're giving away free work. Then they all take you up on it. You THINK you just scored a BUNCH of new clients...even though you're busting your tail while losing your shirt and unable to pay the bills in the mean time. But there will be a BIG payday just around the corner, right? Then as soon as it comes time to score on all those paying gigs, you find that the same companies that took your offer for free work, no longer need/want your services and/or go elsewhere.

Now, just how BRILLIANT is that? You got all that attention you wanted, but for the wrong reasons and now you're reaping the wrong results. In this case, only time will dictate whether it will pay off or backfire.

Though I don't fully agree with you, I can see your point. They will have to focus more on retention rather than drawing in new users for a while here. If they make enough off of this deal to float them over the next year, I would think they'd do just fine though. Having your company name plastered all over every 3d forum out there, and mostly in a positive light at that, is not a bad thing either. If people enjoy the application it may even drive new sales up next year, on top of upgrades. I agree, we will have to wait and see just how well this bold move works out, but my initial gut feeling is still "Brilliant". :)

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pmG used an unusual "pay little now and get the big package later" scheme about ten years ago when the program was just a plug-in for LightWave 3D. Their offer was if you buy a second plug-in seat now, when the full package is developed, you'll get it free. I was one of those that bought a second seat when I had no need for it at the time. We waited about a year, I seem to recall, but they developed messiah:studio and when it was released, we got our free package. That's why I'm assuming that this new deal is legitimate, and have bought in for $40. The goal will be met, and we're going to get our licenses.

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Upfront, I have owned Messiah for over 2 years now, I upgraded to V5 back in November, I do not qualify for the rebate. My interest is not that I got something for a great deal because, I did not, what you purchased for 40.00 dollars cost me 249.00. Ya know what, I think the move was great for them, does it bother me I had to pay a higher price for an upgrade than everyone else paid for the full version... a little. In the long run, this is going to have a better effect on the community and me, so I am completely for the move.

Where your theory falls apart is who are your customers, you say you sell something to people who purchase it only because you are giving it away... If you had not offered to do the work for free, would they have even purchased the service. You are not gaining a customer, nor are you gaining clients, you merely found work to do for the time you were doing this. Here in the case of PMG, the situation is different, yes, there are people purchasing software that would not have otherwise, and they are likely not to upgrade. But look at all of the animators, studios, schools, students, hobbyists and professionals you just placed the software in their hands. You went from an industry secret to a recognized product. They just need to make enough of an impression on them that they upgrade when it comes time... A gamble yes, but some company's can afford the risk, from what I have read on the forums over the last couple of years, this maybe the case with PMG

In effect, this has the effect of getting the name out to a large part of the 3d, VFX, and animation industry; how much would a marketing campaign like that cost? From what I have gathered from the forums over the years, these guys create wonderful animation software and do work as contractors in the industry. The software has been evolving based on much of the work they need, now they have in effect put the software in the hands of LOTS of animators throughout the world, they are going to get LOTS of opinions, suggestions and ideas on how to grow the software.

From what has been said on the forums by the likes of Weg, Ulven and others, the company has been seeing a growing user base of the last few years, they believe the software has never been as popular... so one can conclude, if they can weather the next development cycle and get most of the new users to purchase the next upgrade, they will do fine. If you can afford to do something like this, it is an amazing reward to risk ratio of return.

I doubt this marketing strategy will be followed by others, it is far too risky, the return on risk ratio is just too great, in the case of PMG, I think they are going to be fine, the core base is there, it is not going to go away, they were making money before (if I belief Weg and the others) and they will continue to make money. Whether they jump to the next level and beyond is the question, if they do not, it will be interesting to see how all of the new customers respond. PMG has escalated itself into the next level, do they burn out and settle back where they were, or do they start to prosper and grow in leaps and bounds? That is the real question here.

Just the opinion of a very curious bystander, in the interest of full disclosure, I did purchase a second license, I own 2 laptops and I am always traveling, this will make it easier for me to use Messiah whether I am on or out of the house), I will probably only upgrade 1` of the licenses each upgrade cycle, the older version will still have plenty of functionality for me :)

As I said, this is just my opinion, but I have seen similiar thoughts around the web the last week, so I am comfortable this is more likely the case.

Thanks for letting me have a say :)

Rich

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I'm still on the fence, but don't want to miss out if it's good!

What features does it have that blender doesn't for instance?

Also, how does its features compare with motionbuilder? Does it have this:

thanks

First thing I can think of is the renderer. I know that's why I bought it. A 40US quality renderer with unlimited nodes that I can connect to lightwave.

Btw for messiah users out here, how do you setup the rendernodes in messiah? I hope its not as painstaking as lightwave screamernet.

I have bnr pro, does it support messiah 5?

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First thing I can think of is the renderer. I know that's why I bought it. A 40US quality renderer with unlimited nodes that I can connect to lightwave.

Btw for messiah users out here, how do you setup the rendernodes in messiah? I hope its not as painstaking as lightwave screamernet.

I have bnr pro, does it support messiah 5?

Can't Answer your question, but just as a side note if you use Butterfly Net Render Screamernet is basically a 2 click set up.

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Can't Answer your question, but just as a side note if you use Butterfly Net Render Screamernet is basically a 2 click set up.

Yep that's why I bought bnr. Screamernet will just make you scream. Modo was a breeze to setup last I tried the demo. Same for backburner for 3dmax.

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You cannot do rag doll, but you could do something along the same lines with blending motions, not as sophisticated, but is that really a practical way to animate? It is cool though. But than how much does MotionBuilder cost? Messiah is normally priced at 599, for Studio (ignore the suggested retail price, they have not use that in years), MB is 3495, it comes with Maya...

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You cannot do rag doll, but you could do something along the same lines with blending motions, not as sophisticated, but is that really a practical way to animate? It is cool though. But than how much does MotionBuilder cost? Messiah is normally priced at 599, for Studio (ignore the suggested retail price, they have not use that in years), MB is 3495, it comes with Maya...

Motion Builder does not come with Maya, except with the EDU licenses...in which case it comes with Max and Softimage. Last time I heard MotionBuilder was around $10k

http://store.autodesk.com/store?SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&productID=185461300&pgm=12938000&ThemeID=1293100&Currency=USD&resid=TVlI5goBAlUAAAAtFAkAAAAB&rests=1297696998484

It's so expensive they don't even list the price on their own storefront nor do their resellers:

http://www.motionmedia.com/Autodesk-Motionbuilder-Standalone-p/adskmbslm.htm

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Motion Builder does not come with Maya, except with the EDU licenses...in which case it comes with Max and Softimage. Last time I heard MotionBuilder was around $10k

http://store.autodesk.com/store?SiteID=adsk&Locale=en_US&Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&productID=185461300&pgm=12938000&ThemeID=1293100&Currency=USD&resid=TVlI5goBAlUAAAAtFAkAAAAB&rests=1297696998484

It's so expensive they don't even list the price on their own storefront nor do their resellers:

http://www.motionmedia.com/Autodesk-Motionbuilder-Standalone-p/adskmbslm.htm

In the bundle you list, they have MotionBuilder and Mudbox included, they are part of the Entertainment Creative Suite, the one I found this morning they had only listed MotionBuilder. I have no idea what the prices for Maya and all of the other AD tools and apps are, nice to hear your version of their history though :)

Rich

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In the bundle you list, they have MotionBuilder and Mudbox included, they are part of the Entertainment Creative Suite, the one I found this morning they had only listed MotionBuilder. I have no idea what the prices for Maya and all of the other AD tools and apps are, nice to hear your version of their history though :)

Rich

It's not "my" version of anything. You said it comes with Maya...it DOES NOT. When you buy a seat of Maya, that is what you get...Maya. When you buy Motion Builder that is what you get. There is a "Suite" for either Max or Maya...but a suite is a different animal. Nevertheless, the point we are making is the same...Motion Builder will cost you some MAJOR coin.
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I heard it went up this morning, but I haven't seen it move today.

A more skeptical person might suggest that they're intentionally milking that last %5 or so, but not even I could be so skeptical. ;)

Keep spreading the word folks. Pitter. Patter. Twitter. Twatter. Whatever gets us to 100%.

BTW: I ordered my license this morning. Not sure what difference one license makes to the update, but I didn't see it move either. Could be manually updated.

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A more skeptical person might suggest that they're intentionally milking that last %5 or so, but not even I could be so skeptical. ;)

Keep spreading the word folks. Pitter. Patter. Twitter. Twatter. Whatever gets us to 100%.

BTW: I ordered my license this morning. Not sure what difference one license makes to the update, but I didn't see it move either. Could be manually updated.

Ditto that. No movement when I ordered either. :(

Just kidding. I'm not sad. I'm excited. :yahoo: It's like gambling on E-bay. :o

This marketing may not be brilliant but I'll say semi-brilliant. This appears to be a takeoff of the

viral marketing system developed by Groupon. I have been waiting for someone

to improvise the Groupon viral marketing idea for their own use. It appears to me that pmG has done it.

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I've been following the progress bar with interest. When you dig down into the html on the page, the bar is currently coded as <img src="images/ProgressR.png" style="height: 25px; width: 93%;"> - the number was 91% this morning, so it is definitely moving upward towards 100% :good:

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