Kinetic Steam Punk Fish

[Jarel Design]

Hello,

 

Richard here with a few questions.

 

First: I'm TOTALLY new to this program! Just discovered it last week! (Currently working on two client prototypes and haven't downloaded the trial version until I can create a block of time to spend learning (since the trial version is only for 30 days.), before purchasing 3Dcoat.

 

Background:

For over 25 years, I've been a special effects artist (Not CGI, but rather creating physical models and props), for films like The 5th Element, Star Trek IX, The Power Rangers etc... I'm also a prototype designer/developer (mostly toys), for companies like Mattel and Hasbro (Created most of the Batmobiles for Mattel. Speed Racer, Masters of the Universe, Max Steel, Spiderman, Superman, etc...) ALL created by hand! (No CNC!)

 

I now see it's time for a MAJOR change! I now have a 3D CNC router (27" X 27" X 7") and shopping for a scanner. I have my eyes on the Wolf, Axiom Dual 3D printer ($5k), and can see how combining these "new" tools with my background and experience with physical model making, sculpting, machining, molding, casting, vacuum-forming etc.,will change everything about how I create in the future!

 

My websites:

www.jareldesign.com

www.jarelaircraftdesign.com

 

If you go to the aircraft website, look under videos, scroll down to Dream Cycles; Salmon Flight, Copernicus and Trickle, click on the image and they will link you to Vimeo videos of a few of my kinetic sculptures in action and give you an idea of the approach I'm taking with this Steam-Punk kinetic fish sculpture.

 

My Kinetic, Steam-Punk fish project:

I've attached two images that will give you a rough idea of what I'm going to create. On the side view concept sketch, note that all body segments and fins will be articulated with LOTS of external moving details that are not shown. There's a second image with a "see-through" view of one of those body segments which is want I'm hoping to create in 3Dcoat.(I exaggerated the curvature to illustrate thatt here are not many straight edges, but there are flat plates.)

 

After watching the sketch video tutorial where the user imports top, side and front views and then "fills" (?) with clay, I couldn't watch enough tutorials! This is EXACTLY what I'm hoping to apply to create my sculpture! LOL! I also LOVE the concept of working with Voxels!

 

Given what I've shared, what I know (most importantly what I DON'T know!), Could any of you please give me a "general idea" as to how/if this project can be created using 3Dcoat? (I'm hoping to achieve building this in the voxel room as I totally "relate" (fits my creating previous works by hand), to what I've seen in the tutorials and the ability to add separate features.

 

NOTE: I'm only asking for  'general ideas" as to how one would go about creating these components: (Would it be easier to build physical, scan and import? Begin with vector line drawings? Create top, side and front views like the car/sketch tutorial, creating and using multiple cross sections (front and back with a side AND bottom view (four cross sections?),?)...Anything that will help me feel more comfortable that 3Dcoat can be used for the purposes I'm hoping for.as i have yet to download the trial version and what i "think" this program can do, has been burning a creative hole through my head! (I can't sleep!) LOL!

 

Honestly, I'm only asking for "general ideas/explanations" at this point, as I'd consider myself fairly "Computer Illiterate" (I've had to go online just to learn the meanings of many of the terms you guys use here while creating your fantastic pieces of art! LOL! , But I'm tenacious and willing to do the real work to learn!

 

Thanking you in advance,

 

Richard

 

PS: Threw in a few images of my past works. Hope you enjoy!

 

 

 

[benk]

Richard: No doubt you will get a wide variety of responses to your query. To me the virtual world of building objects is not terribly different from the real world of building objects. It often comes down to what tools and techniques you like to use, how much time you have to spend and what your goals are for the object. Like you I have spent many years making real things in the industrial/medical design world and in education and am a relative late adopter of digital tools (by the way I am in your age group as well). For me the real advantage of the digital approach is the ease of iteration and adaptation of components for re-purposing for other projects. In broad general terms I think your fish project could be modelled in about any package, whether a solids modeller or surface modeller. The choice of that package is somewhat dependent on user preferences and some technical considerations...for example solids modellers tend to more useful for engineering/mechanical projects.

 

I tend to use 3DCoat more for organic sculpting projects rather than hard surface work. That is not to say that it does not excel at hard surface work, I just happen to more comfortable using solids modellers or a surface modeller like Blender for that kind of work. 3DC is a very deep program and can do many things and adapt to many work flows. Bottom line is you just have to jump in and spend some time with it and/or another program (I would recommend Blender...but caution, it has fairly steep learning curve).

 

In terms of work approaches, as in the real world you can start in 3DC with as much preparatory info as you like. I am sure in the real world you built from "napkin sketches" as well as detailed plans. If you are more comfortable working from reference images/orthographic projections, 3DC has the capability of establishing reference views and reference grids in all planes of projection (no doubt you have seen this in tutorials).

 

If you like to develop things in a more constructivist approach, the boolean functions in 3DC are tremendous. Reductionist tools like cut-off and carve are also very effective. Once again it kind of comes down to how you like to work in the real world.

 

Sorry to be so general and perhaps unhelpful. But I think there are about as many ways to make an object as there are people to make it. Hence there are a jillion tools out there to make with. So I would recommend getting the 3DC trial (as well as others)  and play around with it. I didn't break it, nor did it break my computer when I trialed it.

 

Good luck and happy modelling,

 

Ben

[Jarel Design]

H Benk,

 

Thanks for your input. Although "vague" and not exactly what I was hoping for, You got me to look at Blender a lot closer!  =D I was impressed, but it didn't 'resonate" with how I work (Voxel manipulation in 3Dcoat at least made me "feel" like I was in the "real world" and therfore, I felt more comfortable as I shift from the real world to digital.

 

With all its button commands, I can see where the learning curve for Blender might be a lot steeper for me than 3Dcoat? Not sure, but that's part of why I never got into 3D digital modeling before. I am really computer illiterate in terms of I need to "see" what I'm doing. Blender does not seem as "intuitive" for the way my brain "works/thinks" as 3Dcoat.

 

I guess my question asking for input regarding using 3Dcoat to create my fish, was to gain an understanding, enough to decide to invest my time to learn a program. If i know it can be done and gain an understanding as to how, I think this will help me to decide which route to go. (I KNOW there are a LOT of people out there that will suggest that I not stick to just one program and that there are multiple programs that will do different functions better than others.

 

I just can't see myself trying to learn multiple programs. My brain gets so clogged up with info and I get easily confused.

 

I don't mind the work involved in learning a 3Dprogram (I'm committed to venturing into the digital world!), but steep "learning curves" or having to learn multiple programs really push me away. I'm already vested in learning Vectric's Aspire, Vcarve Pro and 3Dcut for use with my 3D CNC router. Aspire is similar to 3Dcoat, in that the work is done on a projected 3Dview of the model being created and I can "keep up; keep track" of what I'm trying to accomplish.Still, for me, what most people on their forums consider "easy", is still hard for me.

 

After watching quite a few Blender tutorial videos last night and this morning, my head is spinning! I wished that I had started working with computers a very long time ago! Even basic computing with Windows and keeping track of files, I get lost! LOL!

 

Anyway, I'm still hoping for some input on my original post regarding how I can create the shapes for my fish. (BTW: This fish project was selected only because there's no deadline, it's something I've wanted to create for a long time and I think what I need to learn to create it will move along with many of the other projects I will be creating in the future: Mostly toy vehicle design and modification and prepping models for 3D printing and transfer of files to my CNC router.

 

Because i can build so quickly in the real world, I can see myself building simple (card stock and clay), physical modles and using a scanner (sort of like 'training wheels") to create STL files to import and begin modification, clean up and detailing to lessen my learning curves regarding creating from scratch. (That's also why I'm asking about creating the shape of the fish body sample using 2D drawings (Top, Side, Front & back)), hoping that that would also create another form of "shortcut" to get from concept drawings to 3D modeling..

 

Hope all this makes sense? (Still keeping Blender in mind as i can see it's power and inclusion into my style of building, I was just pushed back by the multiple command keys I'd have to remember.) LOL!

 

Thank you again!

 

=D

 

Richard

[TimmyZDesign]

Hello there Jarel Design!

 

Here are some suggestions to get you started on your steam punk fish project in 3D-Coat.

(I'm including a lot of embedded images in this post, so if your internet connection speed is slow, it might take a moment to load the images because they are being pulled in from a Dropbox url.)

 

1. You need to place your ref image into 3D-Coat. See the image below:

 

 

2. Then go to the Retopo Room and double-click on the "pill-shaped" model in the Retopo Models panel. It will import the model into the viewport. Use the transform gizmo to place it in the right position, and then click on Apply:

 

3. Next you want to scale the model a bit so that it is more similar to the shape of the fish. To do this you need to select all the faces. Then use the transform tool. Click and drag on the side scale button on the transform gizmo to "squeeze" it a bit:

 

4. Next, go to the Sculpt Room and select the Import Tool. Choose "pick from Retopo" to get the model you just made out from the Retopo Room and into the Sculpt Room.

Also subdivide it before clicking on Apply.

 

5. Now use the Pose Tool to reshape the model to better fit your reference image:

 

6. You probably should switch over to orthographic view now, so you can view your model exactly from the side:

 

 

7. Now use the CutOff Tool to cut the model to better fit your reference image. Make sure you use the "Close Spline" Stroke Mode in the Stroke Mode panel (press the "e" key on your keyboard and choose the "Closed Spline" mode) to draw out the spline shape which will be used to cut the object:

 

8. Also switch to Top view in orthographic mode and cut up the model to better look like a fish. You can use symmetry, the Move Tool, and the Sym Copy command (in the Geometry menu), and whatever else it takes to end up with the right shape as viewed from above.

 

View from top before:

 

View from top after:

 

9. I also used the Pose Tool again to make the fish a bit fatter in the middle:

 

10. Next use the CutOff Tool again from the side to cut out the interior section so that you can put the gear thingy in there:

 

11. Then use the Primitives Tool to pick a gear primitive, place it with the transform gizmo, and then alter the Tool Options to make the gear the way you like. Also you can add other primitives and start building the mechanics in there:

 

12. So far the fish looks like this (I temporarily turned off the reference image to have a better look at it):

 

13. If you are wondering how to make the metal panels all over the fish body, then you can create the panels in the Retopo Room with the retopo tools (like the Add/Split Tool to create polygons, and the Brush Tool to slide the polygons around over the surface of the fish). When you are done, you should have made one of the panels like this:

 

14. You can use the Shell Tool to make the panels have thickness:

 

15. You can add some extra edge loops to hold the shape better (after you subdivide it later on):

 

16. Then go back to the Sculpt Room and use the Import Tool to import the panel:

 

17. Why not change the shaders a bit so the model looks like metal?

 

18. To put screws on the panels, you could make a screw head in the Retopo Room:

 

19. Then click and drag the Retopo layer into the Models Panel:

 

20. Now go to the Sculpt Room, double-click on the screw head in the Models panel, select "On Brush" in the Tool Options, and now you can use your brush to click and place the screws onto the model's surface. You will probably need to adjust the settings like "roll" and "shift Y" to get it to place correctly on the surface:

 

 

Basically you can just use these techniques over and over again to complete the whole model. Then finally you would export it as an STL, and then import that STL file into your 3D printing software, or your CNC software, so that you can convert it into a real-world object.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

[Jarel Design]

TimmyZ,

 

Holy Smokes!

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I NEVER would have imagined anyone going through so much trouble as to take my drawings and instruct me how to create it as you have!!!!

 

(All I was "hoping for" was a "yes or no" as to could it be done... NOT How to do it!)  WOW!!! =D

 

I cannot possibly thank you enough! (Goosebumps here! I'm usually the one helping others. In between projects I do a lot of volunteer work with students exposing them to "my world", but more importantly, how I got to a place where I could follow my dreams and (by example and story), sharing that any dream (no matter how impossible they may "seem"), can totally become a reality if they really want it. To be on the reviving end of your kind of generosity just has me stopped in my tracks, taking in your help! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!)

 

After watching a few tutorials from other 3D programs last night, I had already decided that the most important feature for me was finding a human interface that made sense to me and that I could probably learn more easily than others. I decided to buy 3D coat! With all that I've seen and what you've shared, it just "resonates" as a tool I can "easily" (relative), learn. LOL!

 

I'm going to have to go back and slowly read and study your post... So much info and a fantastic starting point for me to learn more!!!!

 

THANK YOU!!!!!!!

 

=D

 

Richard

[Jarel Design]

Just re-read your post!

 

THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!! SO much more info than I ever hoped for! You gave me some tools that will not only get me started with this project, but a set of methods to create anything!

 

I'm going to print your post so that I can follow closely as I learn!..

 

Thank you again TimmyZ!!!

 

(From the bottom of my heart!)

 

Best always,

 

Richard

 

PS: I still have to complete my projects before I download the tutorial and try out what you shared, but I think I'll keep this thread alive, not only to share my progress and probably ask more questions, but also to help others that might be in my situation wondering if something like this can be done, especially by a "computer illiterate newbie"!

 

OK... back to the "real world" completing my projects while imagining how much faster I could be doing this work, once I become familiar with 3Dcoat! LOL!

[TimmyZDesign]

I'm glad to help Richard, and happy you found my suggestions useful!

 

After thinking a little more about your project, I realized that maybe you want to make actual moving parts (like moving interlocking gears and mechanical parts that really fit together and actually work), and if that's the case, then 3D-Coat isn't a good tool for that kind of thing. I mean, it can make artistic things just fine, and to some degree you can make working mechanical stuff, but it is not intended for serious engineering of mechanical parts. So therefore I would recommend that you make most of the artistic parts of the steam punk fish in 3D-Coat, but then you should make the mechanical parts with engineering CAD software. CAD software will allow you to make very precise measurements for all the parts, which will insure that they fit together more perfectly after they are milled or 3D-printed. In the end you would combine the artistic 3D-Coat stuff with the CAD stuff to create real world moveable models.

 

For CAD software, I would recommend using Autodesk Fusion 360. Although not as easy to use as 3D-Coat, it still is pretty easy to use. Autodesk gives out free licenses to new small biz, indies, freelancers, and hobbyists. Or you can rent it for a very reasonable monthly price ($25 per month on annual subscription, or $40 on a strictly per month basis) if you run a bigger business.

 

There is also Onshape (made by the same people who made the famous Solidworks), and it is very similar to Fusion 360. There is also a free small biz/indie/freelancer/hobbyist version of that too.

 

Essentially all I'm saying is that it makes a lot of sense to use a CAD tool in combination with 3D-Coat, and since you can get excellent ones literally for free, then why not?

 

Here is a video demo of Fusion 360:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-GBpUZ3piY

[Jarel Design]

Hi TimmyZ,

 

Again, thank you for your suggestions! Ironically, Fusion 360 was one of the first programs I started researching! =D It looks, like I will eventually add it to my CG3D 'tool chest" for "mechanical" work...

 

You were right about this fish being mechanical! Electric powered with steam (ultrasonic generator), and sound effects to emit metal/clanking sounds. Supported by the post on the bottom leading down to an "antiqued" wood base and attached to a second wood control box. (Attaching sketches of another kinetic sculpture concept for another coffee table style art piece representing a Jules Verne styled "perpetual motion machine". Internals will all be electronic, but appearance and experience will be one of a device created in the late 1800's..

 

I plan to incorporate the power of 3D programming with "old world" skills gained over 25 years of doing this all by hand. I plan to produce "limited editions" of these pieces using molding, casting etc... Connecting the mechanical components to the organic lines of this fish piece will (at least for now), be accomplished by fabricating mechanical components and the designing and building (by hand), the interfaces to tie them all together.

 

One of the challenges for me has always been creating gears (regular/round, linear (rack & pinion) as well as internal spline and even rectangular gears. I often cannibalize off the shelf products and tear them apart to incorporate parts for client prototypes.(Often done by most creating toy prototypes). Whenever I've come across gears, I've molded them in silicone and cast resin copies. (I have quite a "library" of gears I've created over the years. I plan to have gears available "on-demand" via 3D printing. I found a great little program ($26) for creating those gears and transferring the files generated to other software to extrude mass.

 

http://woodgears.ca/gear/

 

Seems like it will serve my purposes (again, "for now"), until I gain some experience using Fusion 360... (Always considering using "training wheels" like scanner and this gear program, until I get more proficient using 3Dcoat and Fusion 360... Just to get "up and running" to produce physical parts ASAP. I will ALWAYS be learning more and transferring my tasks associated with creating physical models and prototypes.to digital as time goes on.

 

The link to the Fusion 360 video tutorial was GREAT! I went on to view others (all saved as bookmarks for future study! LOL!) THANK YOU!

 

This step into the digital world for me is HUGE! I've always been put off by cost and learning curves. I chose 3Dcoat because the interface for me resonates with how I think. After viewing the Fusion 360 intro video, I can see myself learning that one relatively easily as well.

 

At this point I am so overwhelmed with the research I've had to do and in so many 'arenas". One of those has been about upgrading my current computer to handle these programs. My tech guy is not familiar with the 3D programs but understands their needs. I've been learning about minimum system requirements, upping it up a bit, but also trying to keep costs down because by the end of the year, my tech's going to be building an integrated circuit computer and will blow this one away (I'm investing into my current computer to serve as a fully functional back up. My only connection to my clients is through the internet and recently, I learned (the VERY hard way), that updating and performing computer maintenance was badly neglected. (I take care of my studio and shop tools on a regular basis and all machines operate like new (even my favorite 1938, belt driven South-bend lathe although most of my machines are state of the art, newer tools).

 

Anyway, my very old (too embarrassed to say), main computer crashed. My next computer (had for a couple of years but never transferred all my programs to move to my desk, also crashed and I was left with my laptop. I'm getting ready to hand over my current computer for upgrades so that I can install 3Dcoat and I guess I'll give it a go with the trial version of Fusion 360. Other programs I have are from Vectric that are set up to operate my CNC router, capable creating tool paths etc....

 

Again, I am such a "newbie" when it comes to computers, but I have learned so much in the past few months, that I'm starting to "get it"... What you provided me regarding creating my steam punk fish was DO invaluable! I was only hoping for some insight to help me decide on getting 3Dcoat. You went way over the top for me and I'll keep thanking you for that, for a very long time! (TOTALLY understand the place and purpose for Fusion 360 and that will be next on my list!)

 

Again,

 

Thank you!

 

Best,

Richard

 

[Gary Dave]

You remind me of an art director I used to work for, he would never do short responses, You could email him and ask him where he was going for lunch and you'd get a novel in return that starts at some teenage point in his life, all the way up to the current day.

[Jarel Design]

Totally laughing here (At myself!)

 

Yeah, you 'got me".... probably a mix of working at home alone (even though I'm a "people person"), and learning to communicate with designers/clients where it's imperative to be as accurate and detailed while communicating outside of images! LOL!

 

One time i was sent mechanical drawings with numerical measurements included (usually I receive really rough sketches).. This was for a Star Wars prototype... I began by building the main frame. When I sent update photos to the client he almost died! It was so much larger than it was supposed to be! (EVERY time I receive any numerical measurements from this USA based company, it's in inches. BTW: I had worked with this guy before and it was always in inches!) The drawing he sent me was intended to be sent to China where they work in metric. The designer did NOT note metric on the drawing!

 

So, yeah... I tend to be a bit 'wordy"... Especially in the morning when I spend most of my coffee time answering emails and researching whatever it is I'm trying learn at the moment...

 

And that, my friend, was me being short/less wordy! LOL!

 

JUh oh... Here I go again:

 

Just re-read your post again and started laughing out load all over again! I know "those types"... (Not me though! LOL! yeah, right!)

 

Thanks for the laughter this morning...

 

OK... I'll stop typing now... No! Really! (God! I'm laughing so hard my body is shaking!)  =D