kitsune0
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Posts posted by kitsune0
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Im not talking about voxel mode but surface mode which still works on triangles. Since I often work on voxels directly, I never noticed or needed this kind of workflow but I need to work on base meshes that have been built into 3D Max with quads. Its subdividing into surface mode which gives me an useless mesh which would require hours to repair and smooth all vertex stars and knots while in other app like ZB or Mud I dont even have to bother about that. Im not requesting any feature nor am I saying that 3DC isnt a great software. It simply that I didnt know that 3DC doesnt work on quads directly and trust me that I have been working on 3DC for a couple of years. So that litte lack of "ability" just breaks my workflow and makes my latest works harder hence why switching to ZB. Not like I like ZB anyway but no option since Mud its so limited. Anyway thank you guys for the reply but there is not much to do about this.
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You can add to the thread by describing your 'work around' for importing triangulated(?) models that wont give you quads.
No, my main problem was that I was trying to import quads into 3DC so when subdivided each quad is split in four like ZBrush or Mudbox. But it seems that 3DC cant do that as every model imported get triangulated. It seems that, by a huge coincidence, every model that I imported composed of quads had all the internal edges of each quad oriented to the same direction which gives you, when subdividing, a perfectly smooth mesh exactly as if each quad were divided into four little quads. Since the mesh I tried to import had arbitriary edge orientation (turned edges) when subdivided the mesh gets full of knots and the subdivision result is very far from smooth. Basically this makes 3DC practically useless for subdivision sculpt workaround where you can start with a low poly base and keep subdividing as needed because that will always give you knots and vertex stars. The only way of getting a somewhat smooth mesh its through voxelizing the mesh first which kinda works but you cant start sculpting on a low poly base mesh. Voxels just works in a different way and I like to start with a low quality mesh where I have total control and subdivided only when needed after sculpting bigger details. You can have different quality on voxels but due their nature, isnt well suitable for importing low poly meshes. So, basically, due the workflow and the kind of meshes that I have to do, Ill be forced to use ZBrush whre this kind of workflow its totally possible and less painfull. Would be great if 3DC had a sculpting mode where you can preserve all quads and work only in quads like ZB and Mudbox and just switch to triangles when your model is finished and you need to use Live Clay for aditional details.
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Ok my problem have been fixed as I found some workaround about this. I would like to delete the threat but I dont see any option for it. If thats impossible simply mark it as solved and sorry for any inconvenience.
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So Im getting this weird issue.
When I hit the subdivide button either through surface tools, commands, geometry menu or even below voxtree, my model gets subdivided but like if I imported a triangulated model so quads arent splited into 4 quads like it should and instead triangles are splited into several triangles. This is totally messing my model making it full of knots and vertex stars.
The thing is that I never had this problem before and I have been working with 3D Coat quite for long time. I didnt change either update 3D Coat recently so I have no idea what have changed since the last time I used the application. I have though that maybe I have exported my model wrongly form 3D Max but thats not the case. The model have been exported to FBX and OBJ but that doesnt make any difference. In fact, if I subdivide the model through the import tool (both with normal and flat subdivision) it gets properly subdivided into quads. I have tried with older models that I have sculpted before and these arent working either. Am I missing something? Its there any option to control how 3DC subdivides the models that I coul have accidentally changed? I didnt include any screenshot as I find it irrelevant. I can tell that the same happens with the included models library too and that I am using 3DC 4.5.23. The models are, of course, in surface mode. Any help would be greatly apreciated, thanks.
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Daz Studio may be changing the triangulation of the model when importing which may result in those artifacts. You can try to display edges in both, 3DCoat and Daz, and see if the orientation there match.
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Thanks for the tips, really appreciate.
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Like I said, don't use the Res+ tool, or that button Carlos pointed to (which is a shortcut to Res+ tool). The problem you describe occurs at sixth iteration of the Res+ when it's used to increase the resolution of a VoxTree layer that is in surface mode.
Thank you but, which button should I use? I have started using 3D Coat recently but I didnt know that were different ways of subdividing the mesh. I know that same button appears on the left panel as well as hitting space bar to see shortcuts and its also on the geometry top menu. Which button or option should I use? Also, would cleaning memory have any negative impact in the workflow? Im not sure if you can go back and forward through subdivisions levels like Mudbox but the last I heard is that you cant so not sure if cleaning memory would kinda make it impossible to go back if were the case. Thank you.
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I went up as high as eight subdivision levels with import tool's subdivide button and 9 levels with subdivide tool. After that, it simply wasn't worth to wait for the result as the geometry was already so dense, that working with it didn't make any sense.
The advice I can give you is that if you're subdividing your surface with the Res+ tool - then stop! Use this tool only for increasing resolution of voxel volumes. For subdividing surfaces use the mentioned Subdivide button (available in the Import tool), or the Subdivide tool.
You said that want to go as high as 10-15 subdivisions with your low-poly mesh. I strongly discourage it. Do you realize that the polycount of a simple 6-sided cube at 10th subdivision level reaches 12 582 912 triangles, and at 15th level - 12 884 901 888 (almost 13 billion triangles)? If your initial low-poly model has even a mere 10 or 20 faces more then... Well you get the picture.
Why do you need so much global resolution on your mesh anyway? Are you aware that surface LiveClay tools are capable of real-time local subdivision? My suggestion is to subdivide your mesh only a couple of times and let the LiveClay tools do the magic.
Why would I want to do something isnt really the topic here. I dont think that only 6 subdivisions is really that high if you are really sculpting small details. The point here is that, if you look to the screenshots, the cube breaks in the 6th subdivision. OBVIOUSLY, my workflow doesnt include a cube, that was just an easy example for people to test if it does crash. Take into account that must be in surface mode to "break". Due the workflow Im using, I cant use liveclay plus liveclay always leave a lot of weird vertex that translates to dark spots on meshes (probably vertexs with more than 5 edges). I know there are some tools to clean the mesh but still, searching a different way of doing something that should work in first instance isnt a "fix" and just a workaround. I would like to know why it does happens and why it gets sorted if I clear memory after the 5th subdivision and if is a common bug that happens to everyone or if is tied to something else because I installed all versions since 19 to 23 and in all of them happens :S. Thanks for the reply tho.
Are you using this tool ?
Yeah that one. Sometimes I access it through the left panel or using space bar.
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Hi !
The default cube at 6th subdivision could have 150M polygons... you need a bigger scale in the scene to get better results.
No, this cube have only 300K triangles after the 5th subdivision. And the scale have no effect, it still breaks when adding the 6th subdivision.
Ill explain a little more because I think you are not getting what is happening here.
It doesnt matter which mesh you do, in surface mode, after the 6th subdivision it breaks. It is ibviously a bug because if I convert the mesh to voxels and back to surface I can start subdividing again another 5 times. I can even use the resample option and keep the same amount then I can start subdividing again but only to the 5th subdivision. In this example I use a cube but Im actually sculpting a very low base mesh that may need probably around 10 to 15 subdivisions. As you can guess, it have no much sense working on something so low poly that it breaks after the 5th subdivision. Even 3D Max can handle that easily and even Mudbox. I dont see why the scale of the scene would affect the subdivision not breaking. Anyway I tried increasing size of cube but the problem persist. Its either a bug or I am really doing something wrong or that just dont know about limitations on this software. BTW my PC can handle that without problem if you wonder.
This is how it looks after 5 subdivisions. Is not that dense or big deal at all...
EDIT: I noticed that if I clean memory I can start subdividing again. Still, I dont think that mesh should simply break.
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So, as the title says, everytime I try to subdivide the mesh several time, it breaks.
For example, I create a simple cube from the library in surface mode. I subdivide fine till 5. Once I click subdivide one more time, the mesh breaks and appears with a lot of artifacts.
It happens with 3D Coat 4.5.19-21-22-23.
Here it how a cube looks after the 6th subdivision.
I also changed from OpenGL to DX but the problem persist.
Subdivision working on triangles and not quads
in SOS! If you need urgent help for 3DCoat
Posted
Intersting the threat its suggesting me similar topics here that never were answered. It seems Im not the only one :P
http://3dcoat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18069