tokikake

Ah OK good news it happen when I apply UV sets and I can not keep to work with the scene, because I only get broken view. but once I save the scene as different name, then re-load the scene. (re-open the saved file), it seems up-date all correctly. (though I should not need to re-save and open, but anyway save and re-open seems solve this issue. so it seems up-date bug (3d coat fail to show real up-dated mesh and textuers with some functions, and keep it untill I close it, change room not solved issue for me)

1. I bake textures for mesh which have 4UV tile with 7 retopo-groups to paint room. (I sculpt a little in sculpt room) with use treat materials as retopo groups. 2. It generate one paint object, 7 UV sets and 7 materials for 7 retopo groups, in paint room (and normal map) correctly. (it is OK, I hope to use 7 material groups to paint) 3 I remove retopo mesh, and sculpt mesh (do not need any more), then work in paint room only, (add some decal stamp and set color with change layer) 4 . In UV room, I modify and merge UV tiles of same UV set on to one UV tile. (so 7 UV sets now change as 4 UV tile) 5. I apply UV sets, after that remove un-used UV sets. then confirm I set UV set correctly for each UV tile. 6. then change room as paint, usually 3d coat ask ,you change UV ,so apply it or not. I apply it. (update UV sets for paint mesh) as above pic, it break my glossiness and Normal which I painted already. (I do not touch any setting about layer, or layer blend, then I think 3d coat miss merge some textures when I merge UV sets as tiles.

Unfortunatelly with test again, No... I suppose, usually 3d coat can manage all painted textures when we change UV in UV room. then I tried the way, (Just change UV set along with UV tiles in UV room) after all, it could keep only about color. my normal or glossiness had broken enough for simple UDIM mesh. (Do not know reason, maybe I need to report as separate issue..) after apply new UV sets, then confirm up-date for paint room mesh... test with 2021 40 this time I only work in paint room and UV room (after bake mesh to paint room) , So at current, I think we can not safety modify UV sets (for material to for UDIM tile) without break textures which we already painted (in paint room) Most safety way should be, just use UV tile as UV sets, (may better forget about custom material groups, but just work with UV sets = UV tiles I think (until 3d coat will solve this issue for UDIM as true meaning) Or if we need to keep material, use it as UV sets, but can not modify UV sets later after paint them = need to generate with material groups not UV tiles I just test and see how it work, but if the workflow is not stable, I can not use it real case, or just get break materials after paint much.

OK now I got clear answer from Andrew (thanks) "The "Update paint mesh with retopo mesh" takes needs same amount of textures (same amount of UV sets) before and after. It just opens a new mesh and applies to him the textures. So, decreasing the amount of UV sets may not work. This is the base point of this function. But what you may do. Try to merge UV sets into 4 using the UV room. Select islands, move to other UV sets, apply." So that means, at least if I need to improt multi tile UV (like 3) mesh with materials (like 10), the work flow may change. 1. import multi materials (10 materials) and 3 UV tile (1001 to 1003) mesh , with option "treat retopo group as materials" 2. after sculpt as I need, bake them. 3 It generate mesh, as 10 materials with 10 UV sets in paint room. 4 paint mesh with 10 materials (so I can easy select each material part, hide, or mask etc) 5 after finish painting, not need merge retopo groups, but in UV room, merge 10 UV sets for each Tiles >> 3 UV tiles. then update 6. Then export texture and objects as 3 UV sets. (so 3d coat can generate texture for 3 UV tiles, not for 10 materials. === Though I still hope to avoid the step 5, ideally,, as future request, 3d coat should treat 10 materials with 3 UV sets in paint room. then export as 3 UV sets. without modify UV sets when generate textures.

One more about this scale issue when I pick model with 3d primitive tool (it offer ratice or free adjust tool when I add model, then I prefer to use it when add model) it change default size about same poli model. if I do not use this tool, 3d coat show the retopo model size, when I added but If I use 3d primitive tool, 3d coat seems auto change the mesh default size. (It is not so serious but I do not hope ill. do not know why 3d primtiive tool need to change model size of default) Though I do not think it is serious. it may better just keep the size which I save as default. (then we may adjust it if we need it )

It happen when I use 3d primitive tool, but choose model from retopo model. eg if I activate add/splilit and add model from retopo model, it not happen (but 3d coat ask snap to voxel or not) so when test, activate 3d primitive tool (with change scene scale) ,then select model from retopo model. the size change afrer I apply mesh. it seems not happen if I select other tool. then add model from retopo model window. do not know the detal reason thoguh. (can not guess) and I do not know all case which tool combination may cause this scale issue.

I found new issue, when I put models from poly models (which we store retopo model) 3d coat change scale after apply it. And I think it change with current scene scale setting (it not happen about other versions) I suppose the new problem caused with after bug fix for 38 - Bugfix Scene Scale I understand it remove problem (I report about them) some curve generate mesh change scale after apply (from which I see as view temp). Now it break when I add 3d model from poli models ^^; (it effect some user setting to import mesh I believe include me ) 1. add model from poli models window (test with one cube) 2. we may adjust scale etc,, then decide from current view size. I content with the view size. 3. click apply, now it change scale (I suppose it seems mutliple with scene scale setting, ) I hope this problem will be solved, but please do not loop problem (seriously hope). eg slove about poli model , but return curve generate mesh problem about size. (I seriously do not hope to report same things again)

hm, yes I suppose I can set hot key to open start up file as you described. but how you set up those to simply load start up file when you launch 3d coat, auto open the scene? to make it work, I need to make new start up scene. (yes I already have them) it is not problem at all. but at current, . I do not know how I assign the hot key to open specific scene As you said, I suppose I can set hot key to open new file (as any mode) from start up menu, but to choose which file I use, Maybe I need to set up xml then add new file image follow the linked way as start up option. , after that set hot keys for the action from start up menu, then use ths short cut key, when launch 3d coat? As my view, I really think the start-up menu is most useful for new user who need to understand how 3d coat work for each room. and it may show how 3d coat work basic. but just start without start up >> select room as tab, which you hope to work, then do things (import files or use offered primitive, as I need is more simple for me. I do not know reason why we prefer to use start up menu just choose room which we work (I already know each room usage) Then after save real scene for keep working, we need not use any start up menus to continue working. (select room or select file or generate Tile etc) . just need open file command. Though I know how make batch, but I really not hope the way is how 3d coat set start up files. (use setting xml then add short cut or use original batch) Just offer function to define start up file is good for any aprication. (without hasttle around manuall setting file tweaking ,and avoid user miss overwrite when save safety) The main reason I request is because there seems no good reason, 3d coat change my scene scale and measurement unit, voxel per unit setting every time return to factory default,(mm and scene scale as 1.00, voxel unit as 1.00 when I open new I really bother about it, (I had requested about it ) So If 3d coat keep to return as default only about those setting, I may hope 3d coat offer simple stable function, after user set those option, just save as start up file, 3d coat auto open when launch and use it as start up file with file> new it solve my issue. or I may ask Andrew , why you still change my setting for new file again.

sorry duplicated (Edit)

Yes I understand, it change with work-flow, some user never think it is problem even though you temporally get it, with your workflow 3d coat may not generate them. anyway I report what I saw with real case and I think it should be annoying. 1. Start with new scene, then model in retopo room (for test just append new primitive as retopo group). 2. I save it as working.3b scene and close 3d coat. 3. I open the saved scene later to finish model. 4. When I open the working.3b, it generate empty mesh / surface which named as "working" in paint room. (if you check it you notice it or you do not notice it, or you can ignore them about this stage. 6. After finish modeling, and unwrap, I bake the current modeling room mesh >> it generate the working model in paint room). Then I see, another "working" object / surface (with any real data) in paint room, with real working object and material. 3d coat auto generate scene name object and material for paint room when user open saved scene if selected scene data not include any model name in paint room. Once 3d coat generate these orphan data for scene , it remain in paint room untill user manually perge it. (but after all when you save the scene without other model in paint room but only remain model in retopo/sculpt ,3d coat auto generate orphans again when we open it >> kind of looping Once it is generated, Bake real mesh then generate new object in paint room, or save and re-open not auto clean up these orphans at least about recent betas. (do not remember how 4.9 work though)

Yes it may not problem if I save scene after bake some retopo mesh to paint room with new file. (or open new file, import PPP mesh in paint room first then save the scene, the scene not auto add them. But I use the empty saved scene as my start up. (then it auto add empty object material) then I will import reference mesh or model > Retopo >= perpixel, I got un-necessary surface and object (empty) in paint room every time once 3d coat generate them. I had experienced got 2 same name mesh in paint room as if I duplicate mesh without intention.

Test with 2021.39 (I think I have seen same issue with other 2021 versions) If I save scene which not have any paint objects , retopo mesh, sculpt mesh. (empty scene), but change some setting and save the scene , 3d coat seems auto generate Paint object and empty Surface materials with saved scene name, when I open the saved file next time. I did not see this issue about 4.9 1. open new file. go to paint room. 2. Just save as empty.3b or test.3b 3. shut down 3d coat to confirm. 4. run 3d coat, open empty.3b or test.3b 5 3d coat add empty/test paint object, and empty/test surface materials. as if there are such paint object. (i do not know when it is added) ==== I think even though I add reference mesh in retopo room or add primitive and save as scene, 3d coat generate the new paint object with surface material (without any real poligon) as the saved scene name.

Yes thanks I did not notice it. it worked. (I did not understand the option meaning) ^^ but if now I use it, I can not set start up file, with Silas linked way. so I hope to request, option save as start up file = I can keep my settings about scene or voxel or measure unit , and when I open new it use my setting ^^ (but not overwrite the start up file, without intention when save) or set default file path in user preference. (how manage it to avoid overwrite, do not have clear idea ^^;)

maybe I suppose it can be added as option. (as for me default behavor is not matter) As blender, it work as described. (I can save as start up file, but it not show any real file name, then I do not think we can set start up file path.. I do not see the option as user preference,) and other soft wear can set start up file.in user preference, but It not have menu save as start up file. so I guess mixing way is most flexible. (can set stat up file path, and can save as start up file) As start point, anyway I may hope "new file" keep my scene scale and unit related setting ^^;

I see, yes it is important (never overwritten without user intention). what I though was, the start up file need to be open as auto duplicated file. then original start up fiel scene, never be over-written, untill we save as start-up file again , when we save as start up file, current start up file will be overwritten. And I supposed it need to work like this... 1. open new file >> 3d coat open auto duplicated user saved start up file which set in user preferecne. at same time 3d coat not show file name. 2. import mesh , add, generate etc then when save , 3d coat request to input name, as same as when we start with new file.(current way) 3. if we return factory setting, 3d coat clear path for start up file. I may check the way to add the start up file for splash scrreen thanks (hope it may not so complex). (actually I may hope we have option not show splash scrreen when run 3d coat, though I seldom use it,,, ^^; )

Why we do not have option which can save file as start-up file which we set scene scale and measurement Unit settings etc, and once we save the file as start up file, 3d coat auto open it with File>new ? Set start up file option may need in user preference too. (so we can save multiple start-up file, and change it from user preference) Though I save the file which change scene scale or measurement units, as custom start up file (just save as usuall 3d coat scene file), but everytime serch it and open is annoying.

Thanks I could confirm it solved with recent betas for duplicate retopo groups, and clone . About both case, 3d coat not generate un-necessary retopo groups. just add one more retopo groups for duplicated mesh. (test with 2021.39)

test with 2021.39 I, in Retopo room, change view as Front with orthographic . then top menu>view> activate show 3d Grid. 2. top menu>view> only check Grid placement as "Auto placement" 3. view > Grid density > select custom 4. view > Grid density > Customize grid it open setting window for Grid. just click OK. (no need to change setting), 3d coat immideately hide Grid . like this The reason is, when I change grid setting, (open the setting window) and click OK, 3d coat auto-un-check for Grid placement option. which I activate as "Auto placement" (so now 3d coat not place any Grid from view, then I lost grid in view, to return it I manually check the grid displacement setting again) it seems only happen about "Auto placement", if I checked other XY , XZ, YZ, placement, I do not see this issue.

Then I have some assumptions and guess (just a guess) why it not worked. but if it only work for one UV tile and multiple materials. then not work for UDIM with materials (not same counts though each material locate in one UV tile. not use multi tiles) I may avoid to merge retopo groups. = I need to export each textures for each materials (as Silas said, I may need to merge same UV tile texture for different material in 2d editor, or I generate un-necessary maps. (though as data do not know it effect much, but 6 tile with 10 materials may show clear difference, for the exported texture counts..) If so I may prefer, not separate as material but just devide as each UV tile as start point. = it lost material group to easy fill / paint for each sections...then hope it will be implemented. so the option becom more useful (but ideally, I may hope separate material and UV set, as we said often..as future request, then we can use 7 material with 4 UV tile UDIM (4UV sets).. without edit retopo groups ..(it is additional work I feel)

See these pic please, though if I miss still something. I justi mport this UDIM mesh in retopo room, and bake it to paint room. then paint with use each material. (yes I test with 2021.39 2021.38 only need to toggle the option, as described already,, but to confrim i download 2021.39 and test these so these pic is about 2021.39 use same scene. (and confrim I correctly set True about "use Materials as retopo groups " then it work when import and bake to paint room. not problem) 1. 1. 2. after I paint mesh, I change retopo groups along with 4 UV tiles. (7 retopo groups >> 4 retopo groups, do not change UV at all. ) 3. then I used "update paint mesh with retopo mesh" keep same option. just to confirm all retopo groups correctly located on each UV tile with the number. so tile1_a and tile1_b merged as 1001. (so now I get 4 retopo groups) 4. then I check textures in paint room.. it break textures . though I do not know if I still miss some important option.. but I keep same setting = "Treat materials as retopo object" , then about this case I do not use sculpt room any-more. so texture break happend when I use up-date paint mesh after I arrange (merge) retopo groups for uv tiles.

I may need to check more simple case (maybe only I tile UV but have 2 or 3 materials as you suggested already) but as my main purpose, I need to work UDIM UV (4 tile) with 7 or 8 etc... so I hope if iit work already (I still not sucess) I may try rename material way.. (as my case,, I set retopo groups, like this tile1_a , tile1_b, tile2_a, tile2_b, tile3_a, tile3_b, tile4) then after paint in paint room , I simply move each tile_b mesh to the tile1_a retopo groups. so do not touch UV at all. in retopo room I only see one UV (name as default) but it located as UDIM way (4 tiles) by UV view. (I know it change in paint room. 3d coat generate 7 uv set for 7 material though) actually my first test, I made new retopo groups and renamed, so maybe I already test which you suggested. I already send mail to Andrew. then may wait reply. (sorry other user, I often add many topics related only one issue for this beta topic) and thaks kindly reply detail. === I could confirm even though I made new retopo groups and move same tile mesh on to the 1001 to 1004 (I name retopo group so), after up-date paint texture with retopo mesh. break textures. so it is not safe way to manage UDIM type UV. I still need to export duplicated texture, for all material groups (7) as same as before. (can not export only for each UV tiles (4)

Thanks yes I understand now, sorry to take time I just hope to use the new beta option (use material as retopo object) (because it was what I requested too, I remember you requested it too bofore in old beta topics,, did not you?) then confirm why I failed, yes as you and digman said, I need to un-check the option. and did not need to merge retopo groups but keep as one sculpt mesh. why I may hope to keep material groups (not each UV tile), I hope to paint easy in paint room.. at same time when I generate (export) textures we need not textures for each material but need for each UV tile (if it is UDIM type mesh) so ideally, in paint room we may hope to isolate UV set and material. then I try digman recommend way, (after paint texures as 7 mateiral, I change retopo groups as 4 (along with tile counts) correctly, (so each retopo group contain poligons only about each UV tile) then update paint mesh with retopo mesh (I expect it not break my Paint layer), but it actually change may paint in paint room.. so with UDIM type mesh, I may need to carefully use this option. when I use it.. I think. (I double test same thing, about both case, after I re-arrange poly groups along with UV tile (not material) and up-date paint mesh, 3d coat actually break my paint layer. (though material group and UV set up-date correctly) (though I may not call it as bug, but do not know why the procedure break my paint textures. so hope if someone can confirm it and ideally it will work for UDIM type mesh when I change retopo groups . with the linked scene. (sculpt and bake, then paint with material, and re-arrange retopo group as UV tile, up-date paint mesh) === And to test this new issue, actually I need not to bring retopo mesh in sculpt room but, just use paint room only. 1 retopo > perpixel to bring ritopo mesh . it keep all material.(retopo grouops) 2 about my case I have now 7 material group with 7 UV sets in pain room. 3 I paint some depth and color for each 7 material 4 In retopo room, I merge same UV tile retopo groups as one, (my case the UV use 4 tiles. then I gather as 4 retopo groups 5. Update paint mesh with retopo mesh. 3d coat show dialogue but I keep same option. (use material as separate textures) with keep beta Use material as retopo groups. 6 at least with my linked scene, it break most of painted textures (but material and UV set are up-dated correctly , now it only have 4 material with 4 UV sets (along with UV tiles which I merged as retopo groups)

Thanks you are perfeclty right. it worked with 4 UDIM tile and 7 material retopo mesh. I first failed it, because I keep to use Name correspondence for retopo object, but about this case (if I do not merge retopo groups for one sculpt layer mesh ), I should not use the option so it is my mistake. ANd actually it was reason (I merged retopo groups ) why I failed when I test first time. Then as you said If I did not merge mesh, then bake normal map, 3d coat could generate normal map for each 7 materials correctly (paint room mesh, have 7 materials with 7 uv sets). I suppose after I add some paint sculpt, return retopo room, merge some retopo object along with 4 UV tile (so I change 7 retopo groups (material) to 4 UV tile groups. and update mesh, then export textures with use UV set. 3d coat may export textures, for 4 UV sets. (it is way you described to not generate un-necessary texture... thanks much) === Edit there seems only one problem, after I paint textures in paint room > then return retopo room now gather retopo groups as UV tile (change 7 retopo as 4 retopo ) then up-date paint mesh. it actually break my already painted texrure. So I think at least for UDIM type mesh, after generate paint textures, I may better not re-arrange retopo groups. anyway if someone test with real scene. pick it and free test please with check each option and steps. I only see problem when I re-edit retopo groups (to merge 7 retopo groups (material) as 4 retopo groupo (UDIM tiles) and up-date paint mesh. it may not happen with more simple mesh, eg one UV tile wtih 4 materials. free test as you need,, (attached link scene already import retopo mesh, as 7 material group (retopo group) with 4 UDIM tile UV, and in sculpt room one layered mesh which pick from retopo room) with activate Treat materials as retopo groups. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-SP7YnvK2KMSAW30aiIDTsCVCwfK1-ZQ/view?usp=sharing

Thanks you take time. Your reply help me a lot. (I thought If I need to merge all retopo groups as One when sculpt layer is One(merged) for multi UV tile Mesh. or I need to keep separate sculpt layer with separate retopo groups. (devide by material groups) I confirmed when I import same obj (multi UV tiles/ UDIM ) to retopo room with the "Treat material as retopo group" option on and off, 3d coat change how generate UV sets for same mesh. (not only retopo groups) . It is related with this beta option but I can not confirm it is problem or need to report. I needed to know more clear work flow untill report about it. Then at current I could confirm If I use merged retopo mesh, and merged sculpt layer mesh, with activate "Treat material as retopo group", 3d coat failed to generate normal map. (only zero depth normal map are generated) so I need to de-activate the option when bake normal map. (still not test with your way. bake normal map as separate retopo groups and one merged sculpt layer) if this beta option are added only for work-flow (sculpt in 3d coat >> retopo with material groups >> bake maps) from your request, yes your work-flow and this option already work.. but there were some users who requested same thing when you requested about this. how manage material as retopo groups. the workflow is (I expected )not only for sculpt in 3d coat > retopo and set retopo groups as material groups > bake map. (though i think it is most usual work-flow for 3d coat user) so I hope this option should work for most of 3d coat work-flow.

I think I get one problem, if I activate "treat material as retopo groups" when I import UDIM tile mesh. so to report it (or I might miss use still) Can you test this scene, and tell me reason where is wrong, when I bake normal map (only bake normal) , generated normal map not contain any sculpt depth? I just import OBJ which have UDIM 4 tile UV and 7 material groups to 3d coat retopo room.. Then t I already merge all retopo groups as new one, then send it as one sculpt layer, test sculpt and bake normal map. (layer and retopo groups set same name) Now I can only atach 0.02 MB, so can not sent you PM with FBX and 3d coat scene. If you check the google drive 3b scene, and FBX and teach me reason, really apreciate, I think the problem is when I import UDIM FBX with use the option, 3d coat not generate multi UV sets, but just generate one UV sets, with separate retopo groups as materials. (though UV arrange is perfectly same which I check in blender) I expect, if it work still but I can not bake normal map (3d coat generate normal map, but it not contain any normal infomation which I sculpt) obj file https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-N8BOkoXae7pUebT9Tg-5n59YDYPehKG/view?usp=sharing 3d coat scene file https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-IZeKhgYcy9x0tiweQ-eGPo7sZmVVJkP/view?usp=sharing I remain UV and merged retopo groups. with sculpt mesh. then I aready removed paint mesh. (because it not generate normal map correctly) but keep sculpt mesh and merged retopo mesh. (adjust cage roughly ) === OK now I confirm to bake normal map, for UDIM tile retopo mesh, I need to un activate this beta option. or 3d coat can not generate normal map correctly. (about my test scene, I alreaady merge all retopo groups as one , so it is not relate with material any more. But (though I do not know reason,) if I do not use beta option, 3d coat could generate normal map for attached scene. if I activate treat materials as retopo object, 3d coat could not generate normal map correctly. I test with toggle this option sometimes, . and confirm. (as my case, I set "import UV tiles as UV sets" when I bake normal map. because UV arranged as multi UV tiles. if I keep activate "treat retopo groups as materials" 3d coat can not generate normal map correctly. maybe it only happen, when the UV arrange was UDIM type. so this work-flow is somehow complex when UV locate on multi UV tiles)