Jump to content
3D Coat Forums
3dioot

autoload presets?

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone,

I am playing around a bit in 3D-coat and ran into an issue.

I have loaded artmans presets (thankyou) but It seems there is no way to load these automatically on startup.

I can save lots of things like workspaces, page layouts (what is the difference) and presets but how can i enable them to be the default at startup?

Right now its very inconvenient. Even If I update a preset I still have to save the presets and load them in by hand next time.

Please tell me im missing something obvious here like "save as default"?

Thanks

3dioot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try adding just one other preset,then delete it and restart 3DCoat...I think that works.Not sure but mine load on startup since I did that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thankyou Artman that worked.

I have to say your post in your own sketch thread made me think (a lot). I miss the old days where the tech was new and we were all figuring things out expecting it to mature at some point. Much like the first community with sculptris the atmosphere was great and lots of work was done as "tests". I really want to get back into that positive mindset. Not just with 3D-Coat (I own a license to Z so Im not tied in any way) but with art in general.

However In my recent doodling with 3D-Coat since you shared your presets I ran into so many bugs and crippled workflows it sickens me. And now I have to perform a workaround just to get my presets saved as default? How basic can things get? I do not understand how users cannot take offense at things like this that are basic to code but so incredibly important to workflow. (and dont throw coding complexity at me; saving presets is as basic as it gets)

I wish I could feel less disheartened every time I work in 3D-coat. :(

Thanks again for your life saving tip Artman.

3dioot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thankyou Artman that worked.

I have to say your post in your own sketch thread made me think (a lot). I miss the old days where the tech was new and we were all figuring things out expecting it to mature at some point. Much like the first community with sculptris the atmosphere was great and lots of work was done as "tests". I really want to get back into that positive mindset. Not just with 3D-Coat (I own a license to Z so Im not tied in any way) but with art in general.

However In my recent doodling with 3D-Coat since you shared your presets I ran into so many bugs and crippled workflows it sickens me. And now I have to perform a workaround just to get my presets saved as default? How basic can things get? I do not understand how users cannot take offense at things like this that are basic to code but so incredibly important to workflow. (and dont throw coding complexity at me; saving presets is as basic as it gets)

I wish I could feel less disheartened every time I work in 3D-coat. :(

Thanks again for your life saving tip Artman.

3dioot

well if you make yourself presets they will always be there at start up...the problem is only when user load presets from a file.

I'post it on Mantis when I wake up...Andrew will fix that easily.New preset storing is pretty new and user feedback on the topic is not big.

As for bug and crashes...Andrew fixed 90% of the ones I reported on Mantis and fixes are gonna be probably in next build...

When new build is out just report to me what sort of crashes/bugs you encounter using my presets and I can make videos now really quick to show Andrew issues...(or do it yourself if you feel like it but it is really easy for me now)

...this is Beta testing here.... we need to help Andrew reproduce and fix those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Artman,

Thanks for the feedback and suggested route to take.

But here is the thing. I used to give lots of feedback. But there is stuff that I only saw implemented four years later. Brush profile curves for example. Or the rotate gizmo rotating in screen space. I dont want to waste my time on suggesting stuff that is obvious to power users only to have it debated to death and then be implemented four years later. Also the clear, obvious, in your face nature of the bugs I encounter is shocking. I know you are trying to help (and you are) but you implied bugs are 90% fixed. And that bugs only exist in new features. Are you kidding me?

- How about freeform primites not respecting symmetry? Symmetry is not new? Neither are free form primites?

- Or how about having the smooth brush be local to each brush? I have seen the debate on this... And I cried at the time..

So lets say you have a brush that uses curve mode stamp? Or curve mode lasso? Hold shift and try to smooth. :( Having it share the same alpha as the main brush? So when I have a pockmark alpha that I brush on, when I want to smooth the edges I get to use the same pockmark alpha for smooth? These "choices" (its pure sloppiness and neglect in my book) are boggling my mind.

I was typing more but I don't want to go down that road. So are these bugs? Are they "features" (smooth brush). Are these things also "debatle"? Up to "user preference"? Should we vote on having smooth crapping out or should we just fix it? Or maybe we can put some real thought into it and decide to give the user options to decide what is shared among brushes?

Maybe have a checklist for what attributes to share amont brushes?

-radius

-falloff

-depth

-smooth

I would love to have my radius and smooth shared among all brushes. Would mean the world to me to have these, what most packages would consider basic, options. However now I made the fix for the current "feature" into a feature request. Which can be put away as "user preference", "low priority", "Andew is just one person" or.. most likely.. "I prefer to create a low poly modeler instead".

I don't feel it would matter If I would start to give feedback again/filling out mantis reports. Im afraid it would just frustrate me with little to gain. Do you have a different opinion? You are a longstanding user yourself. :)

3dioot

Addendum

And we simply must have a rapid2 liveclay version. No way around it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Artman,

Thanks for the feedback and suggested route to take.

But here is the thing. I used to give lots of feedback. But there is stuff that I only saw implemented four years later. Brush profile curves for example. Or the rotate gizmo rotating in screen space. I dont want to waste my time on suggesting stuff that is obvious to power users only to have it debated to death and then be implemented four years later. Also the clear, obvious, in your face nature of the bugs I encounter is shocking. I know you are trying to help (and you are) but you implied bugs are 90% fixed. And that bugs only exist in new features. Are you kidding me?

- How about freeform primites not respecting symmetry? Symmetry is not new? Neither are free form primites?

- Or how about having the smooth brush be local to each brush? I have seen the debate on this... And I cried at the time..

So lets say you have a brush that uses curve mode stamp? Or curve mode lasso? Hold shift and try to smooth. :( Having it share the same alpha as the main brush? So when I have a pockmark alpha that I brush on, when I want to smooth the edges I get to use the same pockmark alpha for smooth? These "choices" (its pure sloppiness and neglect in my book) are boggling my mind.

I was typing more but I don't want to go down that road. So are these bugs? Are they "features" (smooth brush). Are these things also "debatle"? Up to "user preference"? Should we vote on having smooth crapping out or should we just fix it? Or maybe we can put some real thought into it and decide to give the user options to decide what is shared among brushes?

Maybe have a checklist for what attributes to share amont brushes?

-radius

-falloff

-depth

-smooth

I would love to have my radius and smooth shared among all brushes. Would mean the world to me to have these, what most packages would consider basic, options. However now I made the fix for the current "feature" into a feature request. Which can be put away as "user preference", "low priority", "Andew is just one person" or.. most likely.. "I prefer to create a low poly modeler instead".

I don't feel it would matter If I would start to give feedback again/filling out mantis reports. Im afraid it would just frustrate me with little to gain. Do you have a different opinion? You are a longstanding user yourself. :)

3dioot

I was talking about 90% of the bugs I reported....not 90% of all bugs in the app.

Also Im not talking about suggestions to improve the app(even if I still do some) it is a bottomless pit :

Im talking about : crash/freezes/explosions...that kind of stuff. Lets hunt all those down for a while. :brush:

If you make yourself brush presets and uncheck storing of Radius/smooth they won't be stored so they will all share current value.

(personnally I use much stronger smoothing values for my blockout brushes then for small details for example..so i like "local" smoothing but fortunatly we can have both now.)

I bought 3DCoat for what it allowed me to do when I tested the 30days trial...nothing more.

I tested 30days...it allowed me to do what I needed...i bought it. :)

I didn't buy 3DCoat in the hope it would become something else....

I still have that old build and I can still use it to do whatever I bought it for in the first place.

The beta testing is just an extra on the top...if it is something that is somehow a strain to you then,it is not healthy relationship.

I enjoy the fact that I can participate and see this app grow .I'm just a hobbyist...so there is no production deadline hanging over my head.

I remember when there wasn't even a vox tree ....and I never thought I could be doing what I'm doing now.

I've accumulated tons of unfinished characters/tests and Im very excitted because I think that with next build i will able to finish them all....

I have suggestions and requests and streamlining ideas to feed Andrew for years...but I would not like somebody to tell me to finish my sculpts in a specific order ...sometimes I just start a new character and leave the older one sitting even tough I exactly know which and how many flaws there need to be fixed...its probably the same for Andrew.

Sometimes I have the feeling users here regard fixes on Beta builds as "customer support"(me included) ...I guess we all got addicted to those weekly releases...me too,I have a hard time to go back even 5 builds...there is always a new feature that is too cool. :rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said Artman.

I'm more than satisfy with 3DCoat and i will buy all the next update till i will not be satisfy , if something wrong report it to Mantis, and if it block you send an e-mail to support, Andrew is a very kind guy.

He already fixed some stuff that i post 2 day ago, just try to have this with other packages.

At work we use to deal with autodesk , foundry ,avid , adobe,and many others... they clearly are not that fast (especially Autodesk) , some of them don't even consider any suggestion.

By the way we have one license of 3D Coat, i hope to get more there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I was talking about 90% of the bugs I reported....not 90% of all bugs in the app."

Haha.. Good :D

"Also Im not talking about suggestions to improve the app(even if I still do some) it is a bottomless pit :"

I disagree. There is a difference between expected functionality/quality and "nice to have".

"The beta testing is just an extra on the top...if it is something that is somehow a strain to you,is not healty relationship."

You are correct its not. Here is the thing though. I bought v3.0 and upgraded once. It is only now with liveclay that we get brush profile curves and presets. Both were promised for V3.0 and most certainly would be in by the next version after that (and after four years they are in beta and presets arent even saved properly). Are you feeling me?

Liveclay is the promise I bought four years ago. Perhaps voxels are just too hard (performance, technology wise etc). But dynamic tesselation certainly is not. We have proof in the form of sculptris. 6 months single developer unpaid. Certainly a company that charges $349 for its software and hires a developer to work on it exclusively would be able to blow it out of the water!?

"If you make yourself brush presets and uncheck storing of Radius/smooth they won't be stored so they will all share current value."

Thanks for the tip. Brush radius is allready going to save me a lot of grief. It still leaves alpha and curve mode though which have the biggest influence on the smooth behaviour. :D I'd prefer general options but this will work too.

"I remember when there wasn't even a vox tree ....and I never tought I could be doing what I'm doing now."

So do I. ^_^

"but I would'Tt like somebody to tell to finish my sculpts in a specific order"

There is a factor missing here. I think its called money. It changes things. ;)

However I think there is a lot of truth in what you said a few lines above. You bought it for what it was. In hindsight I did not because I -thought- that gui/workflow/quality level were a given for a paid product even if I did not see it in the current version (hint hint). I was wrong in that assumption.

I still love the tech and the fact that Pilgway dares to go for solutions no big guys are willing to invest in. I only know of freestyle and dynatopo as software that is in development that uses the same tech. Ah well enough talk. Soon Ill be in France for vacation with no PC near me. Time for rehab. :D

3dioot

PS

Actually I think I bought V2 to support Andrew during voxel sculpting and upgraded to V3 when that became the official release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pixo,

Sounds like a user review! :D

I have personal experience with autodesk. We use one of their products at work.

I guess I should give mantis a try then. Ill start with a simpel bug and see how it goes. :ph34r:

Love your art btw.

3dioot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will not be disappointed , just let's try like Artman said to make the soft clean of bugs.

Nothing will change if we not report it

About the core function, i found it already advanced enough to do proper assets,here we use it to do serious work in pre-production asset design for feature film. (ok i should admit that the color management is awful) .

I would love to replace Mari with 3D Coat but still there's missing production features, i found the painter better the problem is just the way to import/export textures with the color management.

By the way thank you for your compliment 3dioot .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@pixo

It's companies as yours needing features and other user requests over the years that helped advance 3DCoat because Andrew listened. He has good listening ear...

Once reason Per-Pixel painting was added is because game artist said they really needed it...

Maybe you will get your color management sometime... :D

@3dioot, yep, I had some of the same problems, The present system for brushes is new and still somewhat buggy. These will get ironed out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope Digman, at least i'm strongly bothering Andrew for that :D

Anyway i know it will happen with a scripting language integration ,there's no other choice for 3D Coat if he wants to be massively use in production .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@pixo

Your welcome. Sometimes the line between bug and feature request is blurry though. It would be great if all functionality was allready in and it was a matter of bug fixing. How do you bug fix the feeling of a brush though? ;)

@digman

We shall see. I hope your right.

3dioot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I fixed this, but you may avoid reloading right now using trick:

- Load presets

- add new preset

- delete newely added preset

ps: LC development was very slow for 5 months because Raul had to return to Cuba (visa ended). He will get back soon - if all will go without strange problems, then he will get back at the beginning of September. Hope it will boost LC development. Also, don't expect too many from me. Even if I work quickly and doing a lot every day, I am getting very many requests, but may not do all of them, I am doing only requests that are superurgent or are by the way or are bright and easy to implement at this stage. I am dropping what is hard now, but I am noticing and remembering some of them if it becomes more easy at some stage - I am implementing. Also all depends on how much peoples want something. I may not hire many programmers (actually we have 2 but me + freelancers sometimes) because it will only slow all process because of I will become teacher, project manager, otherpeoplesbugfixer but not instant leastner and implementer. I have hard experience in this. Or I should change development model a lot, take Autodesk style. Generally I have idea to make 3DC half-opensource - licensing is closed, everything else - opensource. But can't tell terms, it is just idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick question Andrew:

Why is there no "stable branch" team ?

Picking a version every X, stabilizing it (no feature addition, just stabilizing things).

I understand bug fixing is no fun, so why don't you delegate ?

We don't have a stable version to go back to since 3.7.0.

While it doesn't look that bad from a standard software release cycle (looking at autodesk/pixlogic for instance) it's like years in 3dcoat development cycle !

The way dev is working right now is nice for quick iteration, the problem is everything gets broken increasingly. I'm discovering more and more stupid bugs. These days I can't switch between presets with hotkeys sometimes without freezing/crashing 3dcoat... And this is just a simple example. The bugs/stability has been so random these last few builds I wonder how people use them. Maybe I'm an isolated case, but the number of bugs on small/simple things is so impressive I don't think I'm the only one encountering them.

Thoughts ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delegating bugfixing is almost impossible. On my experience usually I am fixing bugs of others but other may not fix my bugs properly. It was on my previous job too.

Regarding stability - I look&fix mantis reports regurarly. May be I am wrong, but I have no feeling that all is so broken. I will gladly fix all that you will clearly report in mantis or via support. Forum become big and fixing forum reports becomes too random...

Currently my dev cycle is:

(1) respond support requests, bugreports

(2) look and fix reports from mantis until I am able to reproduce and fix it. When I am not able to move in this direction

(3) do something that I feel good at this stage - mostly move to V4 (I have set of what should be done, it should be done some day). Do it until done or until getting urgent requests by (1) or (2)

So generally fun is not so big deal, just trying to keep some balance between 1,2,3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I compile a thread with everything I find with videos/gifs showing the issue and provide scene files (if possible). Will you look at it ? (mantis is nice but I'm sure most of my reports will get diluted, I can still find some of my older bugs reports in there).

I'm asking because I've made simple threads like that, with all the functions that aren't saved (not hard to add an entry to an xml file and parse right ?) and nothing came of it (and It's just bug reports I've tried with other things more profound, I hope you didn't forget).

Like you I hate to spend time for nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@BeatKitano:I just made a Mantis search based on username (yours) and all major issues posted by you have been fixed.

So ,I think you can confidently post new ones and expect them to get fixed. :)

3DCoat freezing while switching presets will probably get fixed soon,maybe Andrew is not able to reproduce yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@BeatKitano:I just made a Mantis search based on username (yours) and all major issues posted by you have been fixed.

So ,I think you can confidently post new ones and expect them to get fixed. :)

3DCoat freezing while switching presets will probably get fixed soon,maybe Andrew is not able to reproduce yet.

Yeah they're all fixed. Except they've been considered fixed.

I still have the cutout cardboard effect on gl version (and I'm not the only one as I redirected a few users to that bug report). I don't remember everything I posted there as I've not wandered there for a long time seing a lot of my input were ignored (which is fine for me now), I'm sure I can find a few bugs not really fixed but "resolved by time"...

That's why I asked about the thread, because everything is there, it's trackable.Visible. Mantis is moderated and since the will is to eradicate bug some are closed without actually being fixed

(and I don't really blame the mods btw, since a lot of users are actually posting there and not tracking their bugs to change status when fixed hence the HUGE dissolution factor.)

At the current time I kinda agree with Andrew about autodesk way: there's no other solution (for me) than lock the current builds for a long time and fix "everything" since he's stating that he can't communicate well enough on his coding habits/mindset for a multiprogrammer bugfix hunt..

Btw (and I've not updated since 2011):

mantis.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the current time I kinda agree with Andrew about autodesk way: there's no other solution (for me) than lock the current builds for a long time and fix "everything" since he's stating that he can't communicate well enough on his coding habits/mindset for a multiprogrammer bugfix hunt..

I think he is more saying "would you rather like the Autodesk way" as a thing he doesn't want,

I mean as it would induce a massive slowndown in devellopment speed and also a near total radio silence in communication with users.

But ,personnaly,its only my opinion here...I think it would be not that bad of a thing.

Andrew here is a devellopment scheme I propose(just for fun :) ..):

1)Fix urgent support emails

2)fix mantis issues

3)hunt for hidden issues by working 30 minutes each day on a character (not artistic...just need to be complex,using a lot of 3DCoat tools)

(it will allow you to see that 3DCoat is not so stable as you think it is...it will also allow you to witness bugs without trying to reproduce other user stuff.)

4)relax and spend time with family instead of adding new features

(because adding features always generate new bugs...I know it is not supposed to

but I've been testing 3DCoat long enough to assure you IT DOES.)

I think 3DCoat got enough new features for a full year...heck,we have vertex paintings with layers,with friggin specular,cutting/posing throught multiple objects,shader baking,retopo groups,ptex....

adding new features won't increase sales...stabitily,rock solid stability will...

+massive SHOWCASING of feature that are already there....(its a blessing that Abnranger is making some videos)

but with rock solid stability more showcasing will come...showcasing is the key to hype 3DCoat and generate more sales.

But if people try the app and encounter bugs...its pointless to add new features.

(performance IMO is already good enough)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely agree with the above. Everything.

Like everyone else I've lots of feature requests, but 3dcoat is at a point where I can completely forget my wishes just to have a fully functional app.

If 3dcoat was working the way it's meant to work I wouldn't mind missing a few features that I think are really lacking in 3dc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed with Artman, sound reasoning.

You are correct at times new features break things and bugs that were fixed get broken again. I seen this happen several times, a little discouraging as you might have spent some time making a detail Mantis report, then working through Andrew's questions about the bug. Andrew finally being able to reproduce the bug, then waiting for the version to be updated.

A new feature is added and then "OH NO'" the bug is back... :blink:

I do think though Andrew has a few features he wants for version 4, but once those are added stop all new feature development... Raul is coming in Sept, if there are no gitches so LC should get some TLC...

Inform the community when feature development has stopped for Version 4 and then we can properly test and report to Mantis till the bugs are squashed. I took a Mantis break,but will pick up soon again.

Autodesk way, I know Andrew does not want to go that route... though at times I myself have asked for a closed beta with 2 versions, the official and the beta for new features but Andrew just does not have the time to do that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Andrew

Thanks for the fix.

"Hope it will boost LC development"

Weird way to put it. I "hope" so too.

"Also, don't expect too many from me."

Don't worry. Im not expecting anything from you... My only remaining hope is Raul and even that was very hit and miss during the time he was still working for Pilgway. We will see what happens when/if he returns in september.

"Or I should change development model a lot, take Autodesk style."

Why don't you try it. Im certain paying more for less will make your licensees more forgiving towars the current state of 3D-Coat.

@artman and beatkitano

Hi Beatkitano! :)

Im not going to reply in depth to your discussion. Did enjoy reading it though and no I dont mind it happening in this thread (at all).

------------

The problem I have with reporting "bugs" is that most of them are -obvious- workflow issues that are not complicated at all to everyone using the app for 10 minutes. Here is one which also shows the complexity with reporting.

Transform does not respect masking.

So.. are you gonna fix this or say "this is how its supposed to work and i should use pose instead"? Pose is freaking horrible because it wipes out your existin mask. Complained about that four years ago. Still not fixed. It also has lots of bugs with tweaking the mask during pose mode (extreme slowdown) and even with freaking curve modes. So.. Is this a bug? Would you fix it if I would report it?

Would be priceless to me if I could use masks I "premade" and afterwards select the transform tool to transform it. The way pose tool forces you to do stuff now in a certain hierarchical order is really slow and limiting.

---------------------

Also NO. 3D-Coat is not feature complete.

Liveclay is just in the baby stages. In my few hour testing I found a few obvious thigns allready.

There is no good standard brush like draw for surfacetools. LiveClay is horrible (yes throw your opinion at me how much you love it I dont care). Its not stable. Its not clean and predictable. Its not fast.

There is no good clay brush for liveclay. Rapid 2 needs to get a liveclay version. This is vital. And it needs to have options. I want to be able to adjust brush profile.

Creaseclay is promising but has horrible problems. It has not enough options and at the moment the pinching gets totally out of sync with depth at higher values. I personally think there is more value in implementing a bit of inflate instead of pinch. Better topo and cleaner stroke. Take lessons from sculptris. Really do it.

Build brush that is used by Artman for the sharp preset has serious, serious issues when the stroke is made on surfaces that are more parallel to the camera angle. Its very, very bad and easily reproducable.

This is after a -leave-. With only a few hours playtime. No its not finished. No its not feature complete. And yes; I expect it to be finished for V4. And if it truly gets finished (would be a first). I would pay for the upgrade. :)

3dioot

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×