Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 27, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 (edited) Actually I'm finding that if you're not setting up an autopo for animation and its necessary edge loops then just using it without painted density maps or edge flow splines at all, and leaving it totally to find its best solutions automatically to be the best solution. Painted maps and splines for edge flow seems to force it into creating distorted meshes as it tries to accommodate the overly exaggerated polygon density differential between areas of high and low detail This is a 60k autopo with no density maps or edge loop splines http://i.imgur.com/uSkTcQD.jpg I've spent well over 100 hours testing version 7 and above autopo since it came out and this is teh best solution by far that I've gotten since it came out. If you must use painted density maps then I say dial it way down....like down to 1.1 or even 1.05 or something, not just on the initial setting as you start up autopo but also in the autopo wizard when it asks you to paint your density map and offers you a differential of 2.00. Dial both of those down Also, I seem to be getting a much faster autopo with less crashes and hang ups using it without splines or painted density maps... Edited September 27, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member manticor Posted September 27, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 My first test came out best on female body sculpt at 10k res .minor strokes for face . After that test all others had a problem with shoulder area where it seemed to pull the armpit mesh down to make wings . Gonna run some more tests tomorrow but on the whole in most areas it not far off zremesher quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted September 27, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 7b is not right for me.Over 30 mins to do a head then it just hangs the computer.Went back to 6a and completed it in about 20 seconds.It all seemed fine at first,I did a few hanging ropes,they took a few minutes but came out fine.But my really simple pointy hat just would not work .And my head model just goes crash crazy.Going to have to leave it for now,its way beyond my comprehension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 If Coat hangs with some model - please send it to me via Help->Send to support, it will help a lot to move this tool to release state asap. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member mercy Posted September 28, 2013 Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 OpenSubdiv is a quad-based subdivision routine. Andrew would have to scrap everything he's worked on for the past 5 or so years to switch to a quad-based sculpting toolset. Might be nice at some point, in the Tweak Room, but there is so much on his plate already, I don't see how he's going to try to fit this into the toolset any time soon. That's why it would make sense to bring more processing power to Pilgway = hire another programmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 28, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 If Coat hangs with some model - please send it to me via Help->Send to support, it will help a lot to move this tool to release state asap. Thanks!! I attached a file, horn is not captured at all unless a curve is drawn also it hangs sometimes indefinitely. Hanging seems random and not setting related. Im aiming at 1000-2000 polys,this is the value you should use when testing this file,any higher polycount would be absurd for such a simple object as Im trying to get lowpoly autopo for game models. horn.zip some results are very good,some not so good...it still feels experimental a little.Usable,,but experimental. Which means it require multiple trys/experiment to achieve good result,,,,so not so good in production environment. It stll better than Mudbox routine but still not as good as "one click" result of zremesher.Of course it does not need to be as great as zremesher (but that would be cool because it feels you are close to this level)its just that some users wont have time to try/guess/experiment with it and might stop using it after a few unsuccessful attempts. But overall its very impressive improvement in such a short tme(yes,in reality it is not that long time for such a complex task...pixologic probably set an entire team on it for 6months+....so its very great progress from you in a short time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted September 28, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Exactly what Artman says! If I can isolate a dodgy bit I will try and send it.But I completed the task in 6a and I want to get on with it.My whole file is rather large at the moment...maybe to big to send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted September 28, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 I put 7b back on and tried "Artmans Horn" ( snigger) It took 15 mins to do a really bad job.( 45 secs in 6a to do quite a good job) This was with no guides or density,by the way. My models behaved the same. So rather than bombarding Andrew with my models ,I will see if anything is figured out with "The Horn" them maybe apply the same settings etc to mine. On another note...not being a techie.I keep reinstalling versions over each other to test...can I install two versions of Coat side by side without breaking anything? It would make comparisons a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted September 28, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 And by the way Andrew...I've really enjoyed my "Coating" this week (6A) Everythings gone great ,Artmans brushes are really nice to use also! ( retopo is just a necessary evil we have to endure....for now anyway.....10 years in the future we will look back and laugh at what we had to do....) Anyway...I can paint my "Scarecrow" today.....then the next task is to figure out his straw stuffing coming out everywhere....I have a plan..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 28, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 I put 7b back on and tried "Artmans Horn" ( snigger) It took 15 mins to do a really bad job.( 45 secs in 6a to do quite a good job) This was with no guides or density,by the way. on my side i get pretty good result in 7B with no guides/density,,,but the tip of the horn itself on the armor is not captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted September 28, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Did you treat it as a "hard surface" retopo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 28, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Did you treat it as a "hard surface" retopo. No,I haven't played much with that setting as I have a hard time understanding which angle value i should use,,,,anyway,i seem to get very good results without it even on hs objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 29, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 No,I haven't played much with that setting as I have a hard time understanding which angle value i should use,,,,anyway,i seem to get very good results without it even on hs objects. Now that you mention it I definitely wish Andrew would discuss this parameter in depth here with us and explain exactly what it's doing and what we should be aiming for with it. I can only guess at its function and how it will react when i tamper with the default settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 I downloaded the latest version, then I duplicated Andrews strokes exactly. My retopo still looks messy. Though I can see it's starting to look better, but some ereas look stretched and others like the forehead just look messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 29, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) I downloaded the latest version, then I duplicated Andrews strokes exactly. My retopo still looks messy. Though I can see it's starting to look better, but some ereas look stretched and others like the forehead just look messy. autoretopo_test2.jpg This is what I was talking about above. The polygon density differential settings. 2 is way to high, even 1.4 is too high. Dial it down or at least feed it more polygons...up the polygon numbers. Edited September 29, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 29, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) All this is fine and dandy but it avoids the main point of the 7A and 7B updates which is autopo for hard edge. Tonight I was working out some little ideas I had about 3d coat's hard edge tools and seeing how far I could push it then suddenly I got the idea to throw them into autopo to see how it would deal with it all. http://i.imgur.com/4PEDw9B.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5mjYfD5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/cJ7mjUZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iwUGE8F.jpg I personally find this to be a really impressive performance and I did a Skype screen share with an engineer friend who is a really cynical critic of all things 3d and he was blown away by it. I think 7B is awesome...not perfect but awesome. This took two or three minutes on an 8 core Xeon rig to run the algorithm on it. That's slick. Edited September 29, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 29, 2013 Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 This is what I was talking about above. The polygon density differential settings. 2 is way to high, even 1.4 is too high. Dial it down or at least feed it more polygons...up the polygon numbers. I will try less but I had the density set to 1.2, which is I believe what was suggested earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 29, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 @L'Ancien Regime:I dont know in which field you work but imo the polycount you are using in your tests is far too heavy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 29, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) @L'Ancien Regime:I dont know in which field you work but imo the polycount you are using in your tests is far too heavy.... Actually I was reading an article on Pixar and Toy Story and Woody is 90k polygons. The toy characters are all about 60-90k polygons in Toy Story. "It is important that an individual model be efficient and so characters such as Woody from Toy Story result in a workable model which is 30,000 faces. McQueen’s car represents some 70,000 faces, but there is another important consideration. If one moves to focusing on background props and elements the multiplying effect can be even more impactful" http://www.fxguide.com/featured/pixars-opensubdiv-v2-a-detailed-look/ Just for the sake of argument here's a drop from 60k to 30k http://i.imgur.com/KDePtHu.jpg In all fairness it is topologically a pretty complex object so here it is in 100k polys http://i.imgur.com/hDOJXw4.jpg No more than 3 minutes to cook out. Edited September 29, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 29, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 http://i.imgur.com/KDePtHu.jpg I just think an object like the thin hard surface object in your picture should get captured by autopo using 1000 polys....30k for such a simple object is still way too much...What I mean is if user needs to set 30000 polys to get this kind of shapes properly captured the routine is not really doing its job properly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 29, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 In all fairness it is topologically a pretty complex object so here it is in 100k polys http://i.imgur.com/hDOJXw4.jpg absolutly not,its extremely simple topologically,there are very few plane changes ,few parts and its mostly flat.......it does not require all those useless polys on the flat surfaces.Flat surfaces should be as sparse as they can be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 29, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/KDePtHu.jpg I just think an object like the thin hard surface object in your picture should get captured by autopo using 1000 polys....30k for such a simple object is still way too much...What I mean is if user needs to set 30000 polys to get this kind of shapes properly captured the routine is not really doing its job properly... Which competing automatic topology tool will do that? Where can I go to buy it? Link? Edited September 29, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 29, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 29, 2013 Which competing automatic topology tool will do that? Where can I go to buy it? Link? Look how thin and complex that jacket is ....2297 polys....not a single hole...its very complex topology with a lot of plane changes and sharp sections...very thin too. actually,Im very close to getting those kind of results in 7B,its just not perfect yet... but Im not worried,Andrew will find a way.Anyway all the progress that has been done cannot be undone..so it can only get better and better now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 30, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is pretty damned good .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Marc Wakefield Posted September 30, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is nice. I have tried a few tests in 3DC with purposefully thin surfaces and am getting welding of vertices and holes. Any Ideas? Cheers, Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 30, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is nice. I have tried a few tests in 3DC with purposefully thin surfaces and am getting welding of vertices and holes. Any Ideas? Cheers, Marc I tried with a capein 7B and i got surprisingly good result...I used 2000 polys for the whole cape. Unfortunatly i didnt save my file but I'll make other tests in next update. Of course result was not as great as zremesher picture above but it was pretty good,no holes...no weird mess, Maybe object is too thin,trying using extrude from voxtree rmb menu to beef it a little bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 30, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is nice. I have tried a few tests in 3DC with purposefully thin surfaces and am getting welding of vertices and holes. Any Ideas? Cheers, Marc Auto-Retopo is not a good option to rely on for thin objects. Manual Retopo is really the only way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Marc Wakefield Posted September 30, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 I sculpted a quick bat wing to test it on and made it as thin as I could get it so I could give it a bit of grief. The higher polygon count version looked OK with very few errors. The low poly version was a mess. I am sure Andrew will get it all working perfectly though, I have faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 30, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 I sculpted a quick bat wing to test it on and made it as thin as I could get it so I could give it a bit of grief. The higher polygon count version looked OK with very few errors. The low poly version was a mess. I am sure Andrew will get it all working perfectly though, I have faith. Make a copy of your bat wing and beef it with extrude from voxtree rmb menu using a value of 1/1.5. Then snap back the autopo result on the original wing using snap button. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted October 3, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Here is a really annoying bug...Multiple cameras...I like to set up a main camera to view my layout,I choose my framing early on and generally stick to it for the final render. Now its easy enough to set up the camera.But its a bit of a mine field going back to it .You seem to need to be using the exact ( or similar) tool you were using when you saved the camera...and even be in the same sculpting mode ( voxels or surface) Otherwise you get an almighty crash! Why cannot just the camera positions be saved? It seems to save most of the other things as they were in to scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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