Jump to content
3DCoat Forums

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

I agree that we need to wait in line, AbnRanger...which is why things like the one below getting resolved when it did (Priority: normal, Severity: feature) gets fixed before other, more severe and older issues stand.  Seems like that's what you've been saying all this time.

 

http://3d-coat.com:8081/mantis/view.php?id=986

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

My beef here is not what 3D Coat can't do...but on fixing/refining what it already does....which is a LOT more than it's competitors.

 

There is a lot of merit to that statement.  I was thinking about this tonight, as I was working on a project and found that some of the problems I have even with the "stable version" of 3D Coat shouldn't be there, and (in part) only differs slightly from betas in that they have some added features and a few fixes.  This is likely just semantics, but I feel that a stable version means everything works as intended without crashing, aside from unknown bugs that pop up here and there, through usage and/or testing...but that should be minimal.  As AbnRanger has pointed out, there are sliders that don't appear to do anything at all, even in the stable version and some things that haven't been fixed for a very long time.  Otherwise, it's just another beta that's not unlike the betas we have now, save for a few point versions that cause super critical problems.  Am I off the mark on this?

Edited by alvordr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

 This is likely just semantics, but I feel that a stable version means everything works as intended without crashing,

Issues that generate crashes are most of the times fixed in priority by Andrew above anything else.(unless he is not able to reproduce.)

 

Please specify which crashing issues in current stable build you are referring to.

Thanx.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+100. I just sent Andrew an e-mail and a work file about the inconsistent results. One UV map (Body) on the same model, exported a displacement map correctly and the other UV Map (Head) completely blank. Me and Digman recently discovered the Texture Baking tool is the same way...pretty broken.

 

This is why I get so frustrated and upset, sometimes. Here I am wasting hours trying to find out why something as simple as object scale is out of whack (after reporting it for YEARS), or exporting a displacement map isn't working and then end up have to waste time trying to work around it. While at the same time, we have folks asking for 2D Grid gizmos, EPS file saving/exporting, lattices on materials, etc....all the while, we have a LOT of broke stuff....features that simply don't work...sliders that don't...well....SLIDE! Inconsistent tools throughout the entire app (there is a Transform gizmo/tool in the Voxel tool panel, Pose tool, Primitives tool, Retopo Room and the Tweak Room, and not a single one of them is the same. This causes totally unnecessary confusion and adds to a new user's learning curve. Not good. Not good...at all.

 

Heck, we even have entire ROOMS (Tweak Room) that are fossilized and dilapidated.

 

Andrew and Raul, I do appreciate all the hard work, but please...before you consider yet another feature addition, ask yourself if all the known things that are broken....are FIXED. All the nice features in the world don't matter if you are having to fight with the application to finish your work.

 

Now, Merry Christmas to everyone. :D

 

The 2D Grid is important. Just like any other tool or function in 3DC. The 2D Grid before, was incomplete, bugged really, and damn near unusable, and certainly not reusable. Nor could it be used for professional scenarios. Now it can. Consider this; Each little feature in 3DC like the 2D Grid that is incomplete, not finalized, and buggy getting these kind of finishing touches, one section or one tool at a time. It might not be ideal, but it's more realistic.That said, I'm the one, specifically for me and a client on a project, that requested the 2D Grid enhancements. I couldn't be more thankful for it. It's one tool that is now fixed, in a long list of things that need fixed and no longer needs attention. So if it happens one tool or function at a time, I'll take it.

 

Anyway, all I'm saying is, it's a small team operation, as much as I would like to see it, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect a huge pass in huge areas of the program to fix bugs. Even with Raul they can only work on one thing at a time (in this case sculpting tools for LC and surface mode).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

The 2D Grid is important. Just like any other tool or function in 3DC. The 2D Grid before, was incomplete, bugged really, and damn near unusable, and certainly not reusable. Nor could it be used for professional scenarios. Now it can. Consider this; Each little feature in 3DC like the 2D Grid that is incomplete, not finalized, and buggy getting these kind of finishing touches, one section or one tool at a time. It might not be ideal, but it's more realistic.That said, I'm the one, specifically for me and a client on a project, that requested the 2D Grid enhancements. I couldn't be more thankful for it. It's one tool that is now fixed, in a long list of things that need fixed and no longer needs attention. So if it happens one tool or function at a time, I'll take it.

 

Anyway, all I'm saying is, it's a small team operation, as much as I would like to see it, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect a huge pass in huge areas of the program to fix bugs. Even with Raul they can only work on one thing at a time (in this case sculpting tools for LC and surface mode).

Well, I wasn't aware that it was buggy. Hadn't seen anything on that. Don't get me wrong. I can see the new gizmo's usefulness, and Paint Layer groups, too...but if folks can't get their work done and are fighting with the app at every turn, that, to me, is far more important than new additions

 

On a slightly different note, I found the issue of the paint-drying slow movement in the Tweak Room. Tested it on a lower poly version in PPP mode, and it worked fine. But on the same model in MV mode...slow as frozen molasses. Seems that it is one of those parts of 3D Coat that never got Multi-Threaded...just like the sliders in the Paint Room. Seems like most every function in 3D Coat that isn't multi-threaded, is dreadfully slow.

Edited by AbnRanger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

...and also, I noticed that "REPLACE GEOMETRY" is an option for PPP mode, but not MV mode. Also, when importing a mesh into the Retopo room, 3D Coat ALWAYS crams multiple UV maps into the same space. Now if 3D Coat separates them when importing into the Paint Room, why not the Retopo Room. This just forces the user to do more work....unnecessarily.

 

One can also dial down the opacity on a retopo mesh...so the different colors aren't so blown out. But no such option exists in the UV room. CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY. CONSISTENCY......

 

Andrew, would you please make this a major focus from here on? Please? If you add it in one room, why not add it everywhere where else tools/functions exist? The Transform tools should be the next major task. Making them 100% consistent across the entire app. basic Transform operations are the most fundamental element in any 3d App and yet there isn't a lick of consistency between them, from room to room or tool to tool (ie/ transform gizmo and options in Voxel Room with Transform tool, Pose Tool, and Primitives tool).

 

This video is focused on Blender's UI, but the common UI design principles are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO applicable to 3D Coat as well.

 

Edited by AbnRanger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this moment we are testing Andrew and Raul work over LC and RC, general sculpt feeling and to stop holes in geometry.

 

Is a small team, they can only work on one thing at a time.

 

Any high tone used to post here cant change the reality.

 

Ty for your overall vision over the software but please, we need to focus and help finding bugs in one area at time.

At this moment they are working in LC and RC + holes.

We find bugs in LC and RC + holes.

 

ty

 

----

to keep order there is 2 thread to speak about, to let betatester users to talk here about V4 Beta (experimental)

 

Features request priorities - share ideas for improving the program

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15127

 

Limitations in existing 3D-Coat features you would like to see resolved.

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15125

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Issues that generate crashes are most of the times fixed in priority by Andrew above anything else.(unless he is not able to reproduce.)

 

Please specify which crashing issues in current stable build you are referring to.

Thanx.

 

Hard to say, but reports were sent as they happened.  If you have access to them, have at it  :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

At this moment we are testing Andrew and Raul work over LC and RC, general sculpt feeling and to stop holes in geometry.

 

Is a small team, they can only work on one thing at a time.

 

Any high tone used to post here cant change the reality.

 

Ty for your overall vision over the software but please, we need to focus and help finding bugs in one area at time.

At this moment they are working in LC and RC + holes.

We find bugs in LC and RC + holes.

 

ty

 

----

to keep order there is 2 thread to speak about, to let betatester users to talk here about V4 Beta (experimental)

 

Features request priorities - share ideas for improving the program

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15127

 

Limitations in existing 3D-Coat features you would like to see resolved.

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15125

I know they can only work on one area at a time, but a focus on CONSISTENCY is something that needs to be part of every thing they do. I just gave a bunch of examples of where you find INconsistencies throughout the app. There is inconsistency in the LC/Surface mode tools as well. Two different tools with the SAME name? Reconstruct. How much more confusing can it get, for a new user? It makes my job 10 times harder....having to explain....embarrassed in the process, that there are two tools in the same workspace, with the same name....yet work differently. :wacko:

 

I cannot over-emphasize the importance for consistent options/functions across the app. Cause many of us have mentioned it before, only to fall on deaf ears.

Edited by AbnRanger
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

At this moment we are testing Andrew and Raul work over LC and RC, general sculpt feeling and to stop holes in geometry.

 

Is a small team, they can only work on one thing at a time.

 

Any high tone used to post here cant change the reality.

 

Ty for your overall vision over the software but please, we need to focus and help finding bugs in one area at time.

At this moment they are working in LC and RC + holes.

We find bugs in LC and RC + holes.

 

ty

 

----

to keep order there is 2 thread to speak about, to let betatester users to talk here about V4 Beta (experimental)

 

Features request priorities - share ideas for improving the program

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15127

 

Limitations in existing 3D-Coat features you would like to see resolved.

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15125

 

Carlosan,

 

Please don't take whatever I've said here as a push against the dev team, as sometimes we users are just having a conversation to get to a point in the forums in one direction or another.  We all know the software isn't perfect (I rarely know one that I would consider "perfect").  Holes are an issue that I wouldn't wish on anyone, regardless of whether or not they're using SM or VM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I updated to the latest beta last night.  I found what I think is a consistent bug in the Voxel Room and would like to know if anyone else is having the same issue.  If I tell a layer in the VoxTree to merge to another, I have to do it twice for it to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Updated to 4.0.12C

No changes in functionality, but there are very eesential bugfixes. Seems previous build was very slow.

There is still no slider for remove stretching (still discovering if it is really helpful), level of details maintained on the level of 11A build. But the algorithm of subdivision replaced with new one. LC tools maintain painted color correctly. LC become well compatible with booleans like CutOff (there was serious problems before).

Generally RS should work instantly, without lags, LC - based tools should work faster as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also - regarding bugfixing, hiring, consistency....

Good bugfixing requires better qualification than just writing code. So not sure who may easily fix my bugs. It is totally nontrivial task that requires deep understanding of whole code. Othervice I will have to fix bugs that appeared after non-competent fixing bugs...

Consistency. Some features are possible in one mode and are very hard to implement in other. Like replace geometry. That is the reason why voxel and surface toolsets are so different So complete consistency is not looking like easy trick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

-Speed is very good. :)

 

-Still issue with RS and rapid creating jumping/weird snapping topology on default male bust side head.

Sometimes jumping vertice even jump inside the mesh.

post-1195-0-73289500-1387735290_thumb.jp

 

-Smoothing  with Shift key while using a RS enabled brush will result in RS action after smoothing...not sure it is ideal or wanted.

 

-Powerful smoothing is still broken and act like a crazy reduce tool on my side.

post-1195-0-78440900-1387735367_thumb.jp

 

-Here is picture of explosion using proxy mode (decimated) doing some changes with move brush on a LC sculptedmesh.

post-1195-0-44271500-1387735144_thumb.jp

-also Proxy mode (degraded) gives very low polycounts that do not correspond to 2x,4X ect proportions...

 

Edit: also considering the only users who seemed to request for more resolution using RS were myself and JoseConseco...I guess slider to increase res in RS is probably not vital as a feature at the moment as the most majoriy of users prefered the older resolution better.Also more important issues/bugs seem to be still present.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Here is another example of very nasty RS behavior on Default male bust side head.

Its really like some weird snapping because if I relax the topology i can see eveyrthing is ok,topology is nice ,its just that vertices

seem to be jumping/snapping for no reasons out of their way.When they jump inside the mesh it becomes a bump that is impossible to smooth,but most of the times they will only jump across the surface and not inside mesh.

post-1195-0-53207900-1387736102_thumb.jp

 

( I tried various things like :various falloff values,disable rotate along stroke,change normal sampling values...to no avail.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Is it just me or is the curves tool completely broken during these last few betas?  I can't get anything but a very thin line, no matter how huge the points of the curve are.  Well, that's not exactly true...I can make the tubes a bit larger in certain areas, but the points have to be super mongo huge to get that result.

Edited by alvordr
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Is it just me or is the curves tool completely broken during these last few betas?  I can't get anything but a very thin line, no matter how huge the points of the curve are.  Well, that's not exactly true...I can make the tubes a bit larger in certain areas, but the points have to be super mongo huge to get that result.

Works fine on my side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...