Contributor artman Posted February 28, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Question: Is anyone bothered by the fact that cut-off tool output mechanical cutting ? There's no substance to the edge that result from a substraction with this tool. It's "useless" unless you do a smooth all or local smoothing with shift. Cut-off is an awesome tool but it suffers a terrible lack of edge output parameter (something like a "bevel" or even a simple relaxing value). its an issue with cutt-off and booleans in surface mode. Andrew made them super-sharp... Its great because you can make a crazy spline-based cut on a 2k mesh and its gonna be super clean. Like if the mesh was 5 million polys. But its also its weakest point and why I prefer voxel cutting/booleans....its smoother,more forgiving,you get all kind of nice bevelling effects ect.. all the crazy HS stuff we see on facebook nowadays by guys like Fuad Quaderi are ALL in voxel mode. Those guys never jump into Sf mode and its a shame because imo its where the gold truly is as far as freeform sculpting goes.It would be great to be able to do booleans and cuts with beveling in sf mode that somehow emulate the smooth and various outputs of voxel mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted February 28, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Question: Is anyone bothered by the fact that cut-off tool output mechanical cutting ? There's no substance to the edge that result from a substraction with this tool. It's "useless" unless you do a smooth all or local smoothing with shift. Cut-off is an awesome tool but it suffers a terrible lack of edge output parameter (something like a "bevel" or even a simple relaxing value). You can't bake anything anything that looks ok with such hard edges. It doesn't bake well at all, and for sculpt it looks so precise and "machine like" it doesn't work on any object (even for 3d printing and product modeling: there's nothing in the world that can have this physical sharpness, except maybe razors :/) It's really a shame cause this tool could be a major "shaper" asset, we already have awesome "add" tools with removestretching and even voxels but there's nothing that can be as organic (or man-made looking) for substractions. Something that you can't find anywhere else at the moment (zbrush clip curves are limited and buggy if you don't mask a lot and slicecurves require lot of extra work with polygroups and capping/splitting etc) I wholeheartly agree with this input by Beat. A much needed feature is a beveling input slider for surface mode boolean operations. Also voxel booleans could use some improvment on the edges after a cut. They tend to be a little raggy. To see what I mean do a cut on 1 million voxel object from several angles. Zoom in to the cut and where the new edges are on some cuts can be somewhat messy and zaggy. Higher voxel count objects hide the raggy nature better but it is still there. A new reordering routine of the edges after a cut could really improve the quality of the voxel boolean cuts as well. Edited February 28, 2014 by digman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Do you mean... Panel Loops equivalent ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted February 28, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 Do you mean... Panel Loops equivalent ? No, just the same thing as cut-off without the triangle tightening at the cut. I know Andrew did that to have clean hard surface cuts, but sometimes it's not in the user's best interest (and you need to use smooth all with relaxation which affect the entire mesh (and lose overall definition) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted February 28, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Ok, I will bring this up one more time. The freeform pose cage still does not work like one would expect. I just choose the hand to tranpose it and it gets all stretch out of proportion because of the falloff routine that we have no control over. I used the 2 X 2 cage. The new regular 3D gizmo for the regular pose tool works like one would expect and I can transpose the entire hand. Having falloff between the control points for the freeform cage is not a bad idea but without the user being able to control it, the tool becomes very very limited. Again proportional fallout like you have in a 3D modeling package is what we need or something that is similar to that which would work for both voxel and surface mode. Linux version 4.0.15B non cuda 64 bit. Edited February 28, 2014 by digman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member rshaw Posted February 28, 2014 Member Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 i was expecting _no_ falloff within the cage, the hand moving as a unit, and the falloff occuring between the cage and the forearm in digmans example picture, so you could , you know, _pose_ the hand, without mangling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted March 1, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 (edited) i was expecting _no_ falloff within the cage, the hand moving as a unit, and the falloff occuring between the cage and the forearm in digmans example picture, so you could , you know, _pose_ the hand, without mangling it. Yes, at one time this was what it was like but the falloff between control points was added. Falloff is not bad but without user control from "0" no falloff to "100" full falloff it has become very very limiting as stated in my other post... Edited March 1, 2014 by digman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted March 1, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think it would be great if there was an interactive slider for adjusting the falloff on the selected area in the pose tool. Rather than a button that you need to press over and over to get more smoothing, it'd be great to adjust it in real time to make the selected area more smoothed out or sharper. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted March 1, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think it would be great if there was an interactive slider for adjusting the falloff on the selected area in the pose tool. Rather than a button that you need to press over and over to get more smoothing, it'd be great to adjust it in real time to make the selected area more smoothed out or sharper. I'll share a script in a moment that will let you automatically smooth Pose selection with n-steps. It doesn't give interactive feedback, but I guess it's better than clicking your mouse to death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member otsoa Posted March 1, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I think it would be great if there was an interactive slider for adjusting the falloff on the selected area in the pose tool. Rather than a button that you need to press over and over to get more smoothing, it'd be great to adjust it in real time to make the selected area more smoothed out or sharper. Ya ! I was thinking the same thing last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted March 1, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 Multi smooth pose/freeze selection: http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15813 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted March 2, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Interesting...I just tried to bake using a cached vox layer and then did the same thing without it being cached. The bake without it being cached looked a lot better, whereas the cached vox layer bake was splotchy. Andrew: If this could be looked at and perhaps easily fixed (uncache vox layers on bake option) or some other more performance enhanced way, I think you'll find less complaints for bakes. I usually don't cache my volumes, but I've got some crazy high rez stuff going on for a project and caching the vox layers while I retopo'd sped things up, of course. However, I didn't know the bake would be affected. I'm using Version 4.0.16A. Edited March 2, 2014 by alvordr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted March 2, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) One thing I've noticed is happening in 4.0.16A is that it doesn't always bake symmetrically well: I'm not sure why. Oh...and thank you, Andrew for getting the "Delete all used layers" button in the Paint room working properly! Edited March 2, 2014 by alvordr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member mercy Posted March 3, 2014 Member Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 Wow, that Globally Uniform UV-unfolding looks fantastic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member fuzzzzzz Posted March 3, 2014 Member Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) I planned and promised several very important additions for paint room, but can't start them till 4.1 not released. hey Andrew, before you release 4.1 i would like to see in retopo room 1. duplicate retopogroups ( without to snap on the voxel/surface object) 2. expand/contract the selection Actually as you are talking about 4.1 there is an improvement i would like to see with voxtree panel. let me explain shortly : Working into the voxtree is really painful sometimes. 3. multiple voxlayer selection when you have to reparent lot of small objects, like teeth. note : with the multiple selection we could also rename/merge several layer at the same time. Right click > merge selected , to prevent that by mistake we forget to unhide a layer before to merge with multiple selection it would be easier to hide/unhide or enable/disable the ghost mode. That would be greatly appreciated when it come to save time during production Nicolas Edited March 3, 2014 by fuzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Updated to 4.0.16B - New method of unwrapping - GU (globally ungorm unfolding) along with ABF, LSCM. It was not intended to be new feature, but idea appeared during fixing the crash in unwrap procedure. There are comparison images: http://pilgway.com/files/GloballyUniformUnfolding.gif http://pilgway.com/files/LSCM_ABF_GU.gif http://pilgway.com/files/ExtremeTest.gif - Crease clay completely changed. Now depth defined by depth slider and strength determined by slider. Each has pressure curve. Adaptive details algorithm specially adopted to procuce cleanest result with Crease clay. - several mantis problems fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted March 4, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Pro:Crease is really nice, finally clean-tight strokes. Cons: I need to crank depth to 500-800 to get enough "extrusion". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted March 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Thanks! Maybe you work under very light pen pressure? Because under mouse with that degree all will just explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted March 4, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Yeah probably (yes mouse always have a blown out effect in 3dc). But still. I'll wait to have feedback from Artman but I'm pretty sure he'll say the same. It's in those situation a simple multiplicator could benefit everyone: keep light pressure curve for extra progressive effect for those who want it (the general brush sensitivity is just that: nice but too "general" ^^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted March 4, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I get good effect by blowing the curve a little and using 175....but 1-100 is definitly not enough. 1-250 maybe 500-800? weird I dont need that much high values... But for very small strokes I need 200....otherwize it feels like really weak wrinkles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted March 4, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 It's more about 400-500 actually, 800 was with steady stroke messing with the pressure. But it's a bit weak. I've set my tablet to use a progressive curve and I'm only at the next tick from center toward firm. So it's not extreme. @Artman don't forget I like very hash creasing, so I tend to push pinching and I therefore need a bigger extrusion to have a significant impact. Also, we talked about it: I like to go bold on those creases This is the result of 400depth, 1.5 details, 1. smoothing, 1. strenght, with a mouse. It doesn't look extreme to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted March 4, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I'm only at the next tick from center toward firm. So it's not extreme. ok,thats the reason...Im using default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Can someone reproduce this crash? 1. Open 3D-Coat 2. In Startwindow: Select voxel sculpting 3. Select the smallest default voxel sphere (1st one) 4. Switch to Retopo room 5. Click on UV->Mark seams -> crash! Happens in version 4.0.16B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted March 5, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Can someone reproduce this crash? 1. Open 3D-Coat 2. In Startwindow: Select voxel sculpting 3. Select the smallest default voxel sphere (1st one) 4. Switch to Retopo room 5. Click on UV->Mark seams -> crash! Happens in version 4.0.16B Yep. In my case it's since 16A. Not everyone is experiencing this though. http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1431 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member stusutcliffe Posted March 5, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 No seams to mark? So why do you need to do that?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted March 5, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Can someone reproduce this crash? 1. Open 3D-Coat 2. In Startwindow: Select voxel sculpting 3. Select the smallest default voxel sphere (1st one) 4. Switch to Retopo room 5. Click on UV->Mark seams -> crash! Happens in version 4.0.16B Confirmed. Also if you turn off create edge loops when using the Autopo routine under the vox tree tab in the voxel room 3DC crashes as well. I used the smallest default voxel sphere to test... Edited March 5, 2014 by digman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 yes, reproduced, thanks, will reupload soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted March 5, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 No seams to mark? So why do you need to do that?... In order to show that the bug is not scene dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted March 5, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 One of my voxel layers I was working on just a moment ago has disappeared! I was sculpting some stuff on it, then I switched to Photoshop to create some masks. When I switched back to 3D Coat I have noticed that I cannot sculpt on my layer anymore. The brush circle didn't show up, like the surface wasn't there. But I could still see the surface with my own eyes, in the viewport! So, thinking it was just some minor visual glitch I saved the scene and restarted 3D Coat. Imagine my surprise when I saw that my VoxTree layer was empty. For what it's worth, before I switched to Photoshop I had ExtrudeClay brush selected and mask visible in the viewport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted March 5, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 The same occurred to me but restarting gave back the Vox Tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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