Reputable Contributor digman Posted August 2, 2014 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) I noticed that the linux beta version is 4.1.08 instead of 4.1.10A, is there some particular reason for this? thank you The Linux beta 4.1.10A has not been released yet. Sometimes Linux betas are a few days to a few weeks behind. This is more true when alot of major features have been added. Andrew lets the Windows beta testers have a run at it first to see if there are major problems. He has to paid another programmer for each Linux build. Edited August 2, 2014 by digman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 2, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) (...) hope that we will be able to use existing logins and/or Mantis will be more tightly integrated into main site. Having 2 more sub sites is IMO not the best solution , it dilutes content (hope you know what I mean). This ^^. Three sites with different logins seem at least strange to me. Can't login information be transferred from the forum? --- Also, I've been wondering why there's no link to Mantis in the forum's main menu. Trello, now that it has been added to the bunch of 3DC sites, could use one too. Edited August 2, 2014 by ajz3d 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member thinkinmonkey Posted August 2, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Nice idea, but I just see the Paint list and I think there is no edge padding feature for lowpoly painting, I don't know if I'm wrong because it's very late here and I'm tired. How is it possibile to add features in those lists? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I saw this ZBrush video several days ago, it was made by Chris Whitaker: At about 3:10 the artist defines a 3D pattern and a few moments later he wraps it around a tammy with an amazing ease. Could this feature find its way into 3D Coat? It's probably called somehow, but my adventure with ZBrush ended around early version 3 several years ago, so I have no idea what it's called. Also, note how smooth the surface of the sculpture is. Especially the face - and with no additional smoothing - meaning no effort and frustration from the artist. I understand that this is subdivision-based sculpting and 3D Coat is triangle-based, but maybe it's worth to at least consider drifting towards quad's direction? Even if this would be a new feature? A feature for a tweak room maybe? This 3DC's room is dormant. No improvements to it has been made in ages. Well, at least not since I became a member of the forum. Edited August 3, 2014 by ajz3d 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolyHertz Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 ajz3d: That's the micromesh feature. It replaces every polygon on a surface with a seperate mesh (should be square in proportion) and stretches it based on the proportions of the polygon its replacing. Never tried it on a triangulated mesh (don't think it'd work) but works great for creating extremely detailed surfaces over a quad mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Micromesh it is then. Thank you PolyHertz. This is one AWESOME feature I most definitely lack in 3DC. Especially when sculpting-in fabric patterns into clothes. I tried to sculpt-in a gabardine pattern once, but after several attempts (with alphas) I resigned. The quality and performance of that operation was below acceptable level. And the seams were way too much visible. Edited August 3, 2014 by ajz3d 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Updated to 4.1.11 - Symmetry polished to work in all modes. - Symmetry dialog is now popup and dockable. - Step symmetry - Split tool fixed - Blending modes corrected for better compatibility with PS - opacity of layer transferred correctly from PS to 3DC - Tangent space/triangulation options introduced into Preferences. This requires some additional work to understand what setting are best for each external software. I will publih test files very soon to check on different software. - a lt of mantis problems fixed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Aabel Posted August 3, 2014 Member Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I saw this ZBrush video several days ago, it was made by Chris Whitaker: At about 3:10 the artist defines a 3D pattern and a few moments later he wraps it around a tammy with an amazing ease. Could this feature find its way into 3D Coat? It's probably called somehow, but my adventure with ZBrush ended around early version 3 several years ago, so I have no idea what it's called. Also, note how smooth the surface of the sculpture is. Especially the face - and with no additional smoothing - meaning no effort and frustration from the artist. I understand that this is subdivision-based sculpting and 3D Coat is triangle-based, but maybe it's worth to at least consider drifting towards quad's direction? Even if this would be a new feature? A feature for a tweak room maybe? This 3DC's room is dormant. No improvements to it has been made in ages. Well, at least not since I became a member of the forum. Micromesh is ok, for what it is it's kinda meh, but it's really the best that can be done with a polygonal based solution. There are much better options that would be well suited to 3d-coat. Mesh quilting comes to mind as does this. There is a lot of power to still be tapped in volumetric modeling. The mesh smoothing in Zbrush is far from no effort. Getting a refined surface that maintains its structure and artistic intent takes tremendous effort in Zbrush, though I will say it does seem to be harder in 3d-coat, particularly in surface mode! I am still having difficulty getting to the same level of surface refinement in 3d-coat that I achieve in Zbrush. Edited August 3, 2014 by Aabel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Also, note how smooth the surface of the sculpture is. Especially the face - and with no additional smoothing - meaning no effort and frustration from the artist. I understand that this is subdivision-based sculpting and 3D Coat is triangle-based, but maybe it's worth to at least consider drifting towards quad's direction? Even if this would be a new feature? A feature for a tweak room maybe? This 3DC's room is dormant. No improvements to it has been made in ages. Well, at least not since I became a member of the forum. I didn't re-watch the video (it's been around for a while) but it's pure dynamesh if I recall correctly. Meaning it's partly quad but no better than pure tris with proper algorithms. What's missing in 3dc is a proper smoothing algorithm, we have like 4-5 of them, only strong smooth (Raul addition under TSmooth tool) is really effective (but you can't change its effect to have control)... If Andrew took a look at it and adapted it to be controlable like regular smoothing is, that would change everything. Try it, you'll see, it literally eats the surface but the surface under it is as smooth as a subsurface sculpt. What I would Highly recommend is put that as a shift/ctrl+shift option and add curve control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 One thing I don't understand with the new sym system. All the pieces are here to make it solid. Except they don't work together. We still have no saving of symmetry params PER OBJECT. Something zbrush had since 2.5... I want to make symmetrical shoulderpad for a character on one side: I activate z sym and work. Now I move to the torso, I obviously don't want symmetry on Z axis only X axis: I activate X and deactivate Z. Then I want to work some more on the shoulderpad: I need to reactivate Z and deactivate X... Why the symmetry settings can't be saved per object in the 3b file ?? This is even worse as soon as you have symmetrical work to do on objects not on the same plane: you need to pick the sym plane manually creating all sort of shenanigan on the proportions everytime you change your object selection ! You even put this request on resolved without fixing it... I didn't bother to put it back on track, last time I did that you never looked back, the same as the few dozen of requests/adjustements (not new tools just small changes) and bug reports lost in the 4.0 mantis project and those before... These boards will disappear, and the bug reports along with it,that's a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 One thing I don't understand with the new sym system. All the pieces are here to make it solid. Except they don't work together. We still have no saving of symmetry params PER OBJECT. Something zbrush had since 2.5... I want to make symmetrical shoulderpad for a character on one side: I activate z sym and work. Now I move to the torso, I obviously don't want symmetry on Z axis only X axis: I activate X and deactivate Z. Then I want to work some more on the shoulderpad: I need to reactivate Z and deactivate X... Why the symmetry settings can't be saved per object in the 3b file ?? This is even worse as soon as you have symmetrical work to do on objects not on the same plane: you need to pick the sym plane manually creating all sort of shenanigan on the proportions everytime you change your object selection ! You even put this request on resolved without fixing it... I didn't bother to put it back on track, last time I did that you never looked back, the same as the few dozen of requests/adjustements (not new tools just small changes) and bug reports lost in the 4.0 mantis project and those before... These boards will disappear, and the bug reports along with it,that's a given. Im currently working on a character using multiple symmetry settings in 4.1.10B and it remember settings correctly per object. I have object in X,some in Y, some in Local Space ,some in Global space some On,some OFF and 3DCoat remember each settings for my objects when I select them. I don't understand why its not working on your side Edit:Andrew,It seems to stop working after a while.... actually I can't seem to make it work more than like 5 seconds ..... Objects start borrowing symmetry setup of previously selected object. It stop working sometimes after navigating or just minimizing/maximizing 3Dcoat...or maybe its random. but there is definitly a problem here. Beat,Im the one who put this issue as resolved ...sorry,it really did work when I tested it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 One thing I don't understand with the new sym system. All the pieces are here to make it solid. Except they don't work together. We still have no saving of symmetry params PER OBJECT. Something zbrush had since 2.5... I want to make symmetrical shoulderpad for a character on one side: I activate z sym and work. Now I move to the torso, I obviously don't want symmetry on Z axis only X axis: I activate X and deactivate Z. Then I want to work some more on the shoulderpad: I need to reactivate Z and deactivate X... Why the symmetry settings can't be saved per object in the 3b file ?? This is even worse as soon as you have symmetrical work to do on objects not on the same plane: you need to pick the sym plane manually creating all sort of shenanigan on the proportions everytime you change your object selection ! You even put this request on resolved without fixing it... I didn't bother to put it back on track, last time I did that you never looked back, the same as the few dozen of requests/adjustements (not new tools just small changes) and bug reports lost in the 4.0 mantis project and those before... These boards will disappear, and the bug reports along with it,that's a given. My fault. I checked and fixed. I will upload build 4.1.11A soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 dont worry, is reopen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member JoseConseco Posted August 3, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I didn't have time yet to try new symmetry. But can someone confirm crash when adding simple primitive sphere in surface mode in voxel room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I don't have that issue (win version though).On the other end I get a huge amount of "missing tris" aka holes on primitive I sculpt into place (no conversion from outside geometry responsible then). Most of the time it's harmless as it's fixed with close holes command. But they keep reappearing randomly at times and sometimes the command freeze 3dcoat. Anyone else get that ? If that can help: I recently reintegrated flattenclay and TSmooth (strong) in my toolset, could be the cause. Thanks Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I didn't have time yet to try new symmetry. But can someone confirm crash when adding simple primitive sphere in surface mode in voxel room? No crash here....works fine (I used the sphere primitives from primitive tool0 But if symmetry is on 3DCoat will freeze od course ( because it is trying to merge 2 completely overlapping objects...which is impossible in 3DC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 No crash here....works fine (I used the sphere primitives from primitive tool0 But if symmetry is on 3DCoat will freeze od course ( because it is trying to merge 2 completely overlapping objects...which is impossible in 3DC) Which shouldn't happen btw: Activate symmetry on a layer, Import/merge a zbrush or whatever mesh in 0 <in that axis>, get a crash ? Not cool. Either ignore symmetry or display a warning before committing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member JoseConseco Posted August 3, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 +1 to BeatKitano. Anyway add primitive tool seems buggy, but not always reproducible. I mean sometimes it fails even on empty layer (so it shouldn't have boolean intersection problem), sometimes it crashes 3dc. Just second ago it crashes on cylinder tool, now it work ok . Hard to reproduce but annoying since this is so basic tool. This is about surface mode. Voxel mode works ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Updated to 11A to resolve symmetry storing issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted August 3, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 It seems to be working now. Thanks Andrew, an ooold bugger now gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolyHertz Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Import layer opacity seems to mostly work now, but it's very often just slightly off on the %. ie. 57% become 56%, 19% becomes 18%, etc. The problem with hitting a 'wall' when painting seems to be solved too, though it wasn't in the release notes --- Btw, the new symmetry system is nice, but it doesn't solve one of the long standing symmetry issues; painting on a symmetrical meshe with non-symmetrical UVs will result in the paint only being applied to the uv cluster where the paint started, for instance (brush stroke started just outside the eyes area): Example mesh: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4210886/triHead_symeye.obj Edited August 3, 2014 by PolyHertz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 new pref settings any help is welcome ------------------------- Layers groups -parent and childs- Clone with sym, clone instance with sym dont respect parent Sym options but all children sym options, result its a mess. http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Stakycake Posted August 4, 2014 Member Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Hello, When could it be possible to use the new symetry system for Mac users ? The Mac version is a lot of steps behind. Thank you Staky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Daniko Posted August 4, 2014 Member Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 After updating to 4.1.11A, when i open up a voxel sculpt project from previous versions, the "Pick-Layer" key H doesn't work, unless i switch over to the paint room, use it once, and then switch back to the voxel room. Not really a big deal, but a workaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 ok, so where could we post feature ideas / suggestions now? Mantis seem to be for bug reports only ... BTW - hope that we will be able to use existing logins and/or Mantis will be more tightly integrated into main site. Having 2 more sub sites is IMO not the best solution , it dilutes content (hope you know what I mean). That is not correct. Mantis is used for bug reports and feature requests. Keep using Mantis for both. Only Chris and Vladimir can talk about if Mantis and the forum logins will be integrated. I don't know if that is in the works, but it's been on my mind, and will mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Hello, When could it be possible to use the new symetry system for Mac users ? The Mac version is a lot of steps behind. Thank you Staky It will happen in 2-3 days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 It will happen in 2-3 days. Thanks Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted August 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I created new topic - I need your help to understand best compatibility settings - http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16476 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted August 4, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 Micromesh is ok, for what it is it's kinda meh, but it's really the best that can be done with a polygonal based solution. There are much better options that would be well suited to 3d-coat. Mesh quilting comes to mind as does this. There is a lot of power to still be tapped in volumetric modeling. The mesh smoothing in Zbrush is far from no effort. Getting a refined surface that maintains its structure and artistic intent takes tremendous effort in Zbrush, though I will say it does seem to be harder in 3d-coat, particularly in surface mode! I am still having difficulty getting to the same level of surface refinement in 3d-coat that I achieve in Zbrush. Indeed, both papers look very interesting. Especially the one about mesh quilting - I think that it even was already mentioned by someone in this thread a couple of months ago. I wonder if those algorithms are patented or can be freely incorporated into software with their authors' consent. Seeing some form of quilting in 3DC would be ace. I didn't re-watch the video (it's been around for a while) but it's pure dynamesh if I recall correctly. Meaning it's partly quad but no better than pure tris with proper algorithms. What's missing in 3dc is a proper smoothing algorithm, we have like 4-5 of them, only strong smooth (Raul addition under TSmooth tool) is really effective (but you can't change its effect to have control)... If Andrew took a look at it and adapted it to be controlable like regular smoothing is, that would change everything. Try it, you'll see, it literally eats the surface but the surface under it is as smooth as a subsurface sculpt. What I would Highly recommend is put that as a shift/ctrl+shift option and add curve control. I see. But the sculpture the artist is working on doesn't seem to require any additional (unnecessary) smoothing anywhere except after laying down strokes. While in 3D Coat I constantly have to massage the surface in order to get rid of lumpiness that pops out in various areas. Normally I use Powerful Smoothing, which generally works okay, but sometimes the sculpture requires a lot of massaging and special attention, especially when smoothing areas near relatively sharp corners as they can get triangulated in an unwanted way. Here, for example, I cannot get rid of bumpiness on upper and lower lips. I can massage as long as I want and still end up in the same place as before smoothing. Area around hard corners can be smoothed out by slightly pinching them, but after this I need to pay attention not to get near them with a smoothing brush, because if I do, then lumpiness will appear. I tried the Strong smooth and yeah, it looks promising and probably would be perfect if it didn't eat surface like a hungry fox does chickens when it sneaks into a hen house. --- A question to Andrew: I noticed that tangent space normalization options disappeared from preferences window. Are they replaced by the new tangent space standard setting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 After updating to 4.1.11A, when i open up a voxel sculpt project from previous versions, the "Pick-Layer" key H doesn't work, unless i switch over to the paint room, use it once, and then switch back to the voxel room. Not really a big deal, but a workaround. H key only works in between layers of same type of sculpt If you press a surface layer... can pick any other sculpt layer but voxel If you press a voxel layer... can pick any other sculpt layer but surface confirmed, reported, ty ! http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view_all_bug_page.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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