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V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)


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Artman remade his presets and specificaly asked to NOT download his pack with this new release. Andrew changed many things in the brushes which make older preset incompatible.

 

Clay 2 is not in the base pack if I remember right, so yeah he does create artefacts. You'll have to delete those older presets because they probably won't behave properly and can cause subtle problems you won't spot until too late.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I dont have downloaded Artmans Pack, it is icluded now. But i have used it on 4.04 not sure if that causes that problems.

 

Clay 2 is not in the base pack? Maybe it is an old one that i have installed on 4.04. I miss the Mud presets too.

As far as i see, it is not reproducable, on a new model, i get no artefakts.

 

I try to fix my stuff and maybe delete some of the artmans presets until there are some fixes out there.

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Thanks for the reply.

 

I dont have downloaded Artmans Pack, it is icluded now. But i have used it on 4.04 not sure if that causes that problems.

 

Clay 2 is not in the base pack? Maybe it is an old one that i have installed on 4.04. I miss the Mud presets too.

As far as i see, it is not reproducable, on a new model, i get no artefakts.

 

I try to fix my stuff and maybe delete some of the artmans presets until there are some fixes out there.

If those preset come from an older artman's pack they may not work properly. You need to remove them.

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Hello Andrew! Hopefully you are reading this.

 

Would it be possible to interactively create poles on the mesh with the new autoretopology tool you are making? The poles are arguably the most important thing for creating good topology. If we could interactively create the poles (and automatically see the autoretopology update) then it would be an ideal autopo tool.

 

Here is an image to demonstrate what I mean by poles (in case I am not being clear):

 

WhatPolesAre.jpg

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http://t.co/f1PeHT45Zh

http://t.co/0XiTWcT3eJ

http://t.co/4YsbTrXhsM

Wow these latest Autoretopo updates are super cool!  After this comes SKETCH based Retopo! :D

 

Wow! That hard surface one is especially amazing! The edges are placed exactly along the sharp parts!

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TimmyZDesign, on 28 Aug 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:
....

Would it be possible to interactively create poles on the mesh with the new autoretopology tool you are making? The poles are arguably the most important thing for creating good topology. If we could interactively create the poles (and automatically see the autoretopology update) then it would be an ideal autopo tool.

...........................................................................

 

 

 

Agreed!! Love to be able to, say, put 5-star poles in strategic places (under arm -armpits, around legs at hips, eye-sockets, etc.)
and just let the quads fill in! Deleting areas that are unsatisfactory and then repeating...would seem to be a super-fast

retopo process...

 

 

.

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Hello Andrew! Hopefully you are reading this.

 

Would it be possible to interactively create poles on the mesh with the new autoretopology tool you are making? The poles are arguably the most important thing for creating good topology. If we could interactively create the poles (and automatically see the autoretopology update) then it would be an ideal autopo tool.

 

Here is an image to demonstrate what I mean by poles (in case I am not being clear):

 

WhatPolesAre.jpg

 

That is one slick idea. +1 to that for sure.

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Hello Andrew! Hopefully you are reading this.

 

Would it be possible to interactively create poles on the mesh with the new autoretopology tool you are making? The poles are arguably the most important thing for creating good topology. If we could interactively create the poles (and automatically see the autoretopology update) then it would be an ideal autopo tool.

 

Here is an image to demonstrate what I mean by poles (in case I am not being clear):

 

WhatPolesAre.jpg

I agree with this 100%. I think these would act like "Traffic lights," as it were, to help direct polyflow where the artist wants it. It may not be easy to implement, especially in an interactive manner. Perhaps this could be best achieved with some "pin-points" (similar to the points in the Points and faces panel) for these poles. To dictate whether you want 3 or 5 star poles, one would need the ability to create/initiate strokes from it (just like you can start a stroke from a vertex with the Strokes tool), to point exactly where the edgeflow needs to be directed.

 

I would like to see this work with the Strokes tool, in some capacity. Why? Because currently, if you create a 3 or 5 point intersection with Strokes, you will get a mess of overlapping vertices....if you get any geometry at all. This needs to be fixed, regardless. It's like 3+ point intersections confuse 3D Coat.

 

Currently if you try to intersect stroke lines, to create poles, you'll get a mess of overlapping verts. I also have asked Andrew about the ability to stabilize stroke creation with a "Rubber Band" function. Basically using a hotkey (held down) to invoke a straight line from the initial click point to the end of it. Another option that might make stroke creation even better, is enable the Point to Point functionality from the Path/UV Path tool to work within the Strokes tool. Instead of working only on the retopo mesh, it would work on the underlaying voxel obect/reference mesh.

Edited by AbnRanger
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I have never looked forward to any 3d coat update so much as the next one. The improvements to autopo are going to be awesome.

 

Beautiful hard edges, no more spirals, no more ngons...can't wait.

 

:D :D :D

+1

 

This is going to be a real time saver! Love it!

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Thumb loss is not really troublesome, the resolution is really low here. Symmetry not PERFECT is a real problem though.

On the mannequin the feet also bring question, doesn't look right, the overal shapes of the model are what you would expect from a box modeling which is fine, but the feet are random.

I would like to see how this look with a bit more res, see if the flow is still alright.

I remember seing quite spectacular results with hard surface (primitive merging) on Andrew's picture once (soon after autoretopo was introduced), something not replicable in the app afterward.

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Thumb loss is not really troublesome, the resolution is really low here. Symmetry not PERFECT is a real problem though.

On the mannequin the feet also bring question, doesn't look right, the overal shapes of the model are what you would expect from a box modeling which is fine, but the feet are random.

I would like to see how this look with a bit more res, see if the flow is still alright.

I remember seing quite spectacular results with hard surface (primitive merging) on Andrew's picture once (soon after autoretopo was introduced), something not replicable in the app afterward.

Im pretty sure zremesher would get the thumb.Even at this resolution  level.

Could be interesting to compare.

To me capture of small details/appendages/spikes  is essential to get a displacement map ready mesh.

Im much less concerned about spiraling loops and a few tris/ngons.

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Im pretty sure zremesher would get the thumb.Even at this resolution  level.

Could be interesting to compare.

To me capture of small details/appendages/spikes  is essential to get a displacement map ready mesh.

Im much less concerned about spiraling loops and a few tris/ngons.

One other element Pixologic adds to the process is reverse subdivision, after running Z Remesher, right? As it stands, one has to go in and delete loops manually.

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One other element Pixologic adds to the process is reverse subdivision, after running Z Remesher, right? As it stands, one has to go in and delete loops manually.

Reverse subdivision?? no....

If you want to reproject details from zremeshed mesh to high poly you need to decide to do it.

anyway,I don't understand your reply.

 

I was just saying that capture of small spikes,fingers and stuff like that should be possible using a few thousand polys

and definitely not need to use range in 10ks and above...I think its really zremesher strength compared to 3DC and Mudbox's  automatic retopology.Also the way it handles very thin surfaces like clothes is astounding I can't wait to test new 3dC routine with thin surfaces and open meshes to see if its usable right out of the box.Im a little worried Andrew is using too simple models in his tests...

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ZRemesher is fantastic, I use it every day, start off with Dynamesh, then use ZRemesher to get the correct topo, subdivide it a few times, then project the hi rez details of the Dynameshed model onto the ZRemeshed model, then export the low rez zremeshed model with its displacement map, very easy and always works.

This work flow is not available with 3DCoat because once you have retopoed, you basically have left the building (Voxel room), it would be nice if Andrew could incorporate this new retopo routine in the Voxel room rather than while baking, if that was possible then we would have something which ZBrush has and you wouldn't need to do much retopo work when baking down to a lower rez model when it comes time to painting and exporting. I think the baking down to low rez mesh with a displacement map should be one of the last things you do before painting and exporting. But retopoing in the Voxel room to give good edge flow would make life much easier while sculpting. And one more note, triangles suck, working with quads is much better.

T.

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ZRemesher is fantastic, I use it every day, start off with Dynamesh, then use ZRemesher to get the correct topo, subdivide it a few times, then project the hi rez details of the Dynameshed model onto the ZRemeshed model, then export the low rez zremeshed model with its displacement map, very easy and always works.

This work flow is not available with 3DCoat because once you have retopoed, you basically have left the building (Voxel room), it would be nice if Andrew could incorporate this new retopo routine in the Voxel room rather than while baking, if that was possible then we would have something which ZBrush has and you wouldn't need to do much retopo work when baking down to a lower rez model when it comes time to painting and exporting. I think the baking down to low rez mesh with a displacement map should be one of the last things you do before painting and exporting. But retopoing in the Voxel room to give good edge flow would make life much easier while sculpting. And one more note, triangles suck, working with quads is much better.

T.

I have totally disagree with this. To have quads the way you need in ZBrush and Mudbox, you effectively eliminated the possibility of dynamic tessellation (ie., LiveClay). You have always had a jaded, cynical view of 3D Coat...always something negative or critical to say. Never anything constructive or positive...so I take your comments with a grain of salt. Here Andrew is busting his tail to improve the Brushes...that's not enough. He's busting his tail to improve Auto-Retopo...which he was the first to bring to market....Not enough. Instead, you come here to bash his work and gloat about what Pixologic has done. Why bother...honestly?

 

 

Reverse subdivision?? no....

If you want to reproject details from zremeshed mesh to high poly you need to decide to do it.

anyway,I don't understand your reply.

 

I was just saying that capture of small spikes,fingers and stuff like that should be possible using a few thousand polys

and definitely not need to use range in 10ks and above...I think its really zremesher strength compared to 3DC and Mudbox's  automatic retopology.Also the way it handles very thin surfaces like clothes is astounding I can't wait to test new 3dC routine with thin surfaces and open meshes to see if its usable right out of the box.Im a little worried Andrew is using too simple models in his tests...

What I saw in an early video of Z-Remesher was that it created a relatively clean mesh, but somewhat dense. Then I suppose they ran a reduction routine (reverse subdivision?), that made it more usable. That may be why it works better on fingers, spikes and such. They probably spent months and months of development time trying to solve all the niggly little issues that would crop up. Nonetheless, What Andrew is doing appears to be considerably more usable, now...even if it's not quite where the improved Z Remesher algorithm is.

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What I saw in an early video of Z-Remesher was that it created a relatively clean mesh, but somewhat dense. Then I suppose they ran a reduction routine (reverse subdivision?), that made it more usable. That may be why it works better on fingers, spikes and such. They probably spent months and months of development time trying to solve all the niggly little issues that would crop up. Nonetheless, What Andrew is doing appears to be considerably more usable, now...even if it's not quite where the improved Z Remesher algorithm is.

no "reverse subdivision"...its just usual Decimation.Nothing 3DCoat cannot do.

Of course they obviously spent a lot of time refining it and they already had the work Verold did for them with qremesher to work on.Andrew new improvemtns seem very promising but it feels to me he focused too much energy on trying to get no spiral loops instead of focusing on the best detail capturing routine.Zremesher strength is incredible curve detection and also the fact that (with default settings) its "adaptive"....it does not try to get evenly spaced polys(unless you desactivate the adaptive) so it really capture intricate shapes and dirty details in an unsurpassed manner ...and this before painting any density or drawing curves. 

 

edit:Ok,I think what you mistook for reverse subdivision is just results with and without adaptive on.

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Wow ABN, you are a bit sensitive aren't you, as I said, I use Dynamesh which also creates some triangulates in the geometry, this was my reference to not liking triangles and the reason that "I bother" is to point out the flaws which I come across using this program, sure I could "not bother" and just use ZBrush, but I like this application and like to see it improve, isn't this what this thread is for, or just to suck up to Andrew.

T.

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Wow ABN, you are a bit sensitive aren't you, as I said, I use Dynamesh which also creates some triangulates in the geometry, this was my reference to not liking triangles and the reason that "I bother" is to point out the flaws which I come across using this program, sure I could "not bother" and just use ZBrush, but I like this application and like to see it improve, isn't this what this thread is for, or just to suck up to Andrew.

T.

It's not a matter of being sensitive. You are worse than Michalis, because practically 100% of the time, all you do is come here and bash 3D Coat relentlessly. It gets old, and it can discourage Andrew to the point that he just goes quiet for a long, long spell. You can screw it up for the rest of us with this incessant routine.

Edited by AbnRanger
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no "reverse subdivision"...its just usual Decimation.Nothing 3DCoat cannot do.

Of course they obviously spent a lot of time refining it and they already had the work Verold did for them with qremesher to work on.Andrew new improvemtns seem very promising but it feels to me he focused too much energy on trying to get no spiral loops instead of focusing on the best detail capturing routine.Zremesher strength is incredible curve detection and also the fact that (with default settings) its "adaptive"....it does not try to get evenly spaced polys(unless you desactivate the adaptive) so it really capture intricate shapes and dirty details in an unsurpassed manner ...and this before painting any density or drawing curves. 

 

edit:Ok,I think what you mistook for reverse subdivision is just results with and without adaptive on.

Yeah, it's just not very practical in any modeling setting to have evenly spaced quads. One will always use fewer polygons or edgeloops where the surface is flat or has a relatively low incidence angle. I too hope he adds an option for adaptive spacing, based on surface angle/curvature analysis.

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Little problem.

I have lost my Generic_Bust_Male_Angular file from the Startup Screen.

Why the hell is it possible to save that over?

 

Is there a place to download that file again or could anybody send me that file, please?

Edited by Malo
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Thanks, but this wont solve the problem.

If i delete the file in my dokuments, i get an empty screen after loading the bust from the startup screen.

 

After some searching, and a look into that picture that is posted, i see, i dont have that File.

 

Not sure whats going on here.

Is it deleted after i save it?

Is it always in my dokuments now?

I have no idea.

 

 

Edit:

I found on a different Threat the filepackage. Now i could Repalce it.

Many and Big Thanks to carlosan. :good2:

 

Ok. After a littel test.

I have put the file from carlosan into the Programm folder, and i have deleted the files in my documents.

Nice, the basic head works now.

But i did the same again, to see whats going wrong. And what did i see?

If i overwrite the file, 3d coat creates a new one in my documents and delete the original one in the programms folder.

 

Thats a big bug and should be fixed.

Edited by Malo
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But i did the same again, to see whats going wrong. And what did i see?

If i overwrite the file, 3d coat creates a new one in my documents and delete the original one in the programms folder.

 

Hmm, normally this shouldn't happen because Program Files folder is write protected for software without administrative privileges. Is it possible that you launch your 3D Coat copy with Run this program as an administrator flag enabled or maybe you have installed it to some custom path?

Edited by ajz3d
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Yes, because i am the Admin -> it is always on.

And yes, i dont use C:\ for my 3d Stuff -> Every App, Texture Library, my Projects and stuff like that are on a different partition.

Edited by Malo
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