Member Creator Posted September 16, 2013 Member Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 im making this meshes to add: hand foot ear nose Haha, i was thinking about something else Hand, foot, ear etc. can be combined to human body, so there can be one Humanoid mesh. Other mesh can be for example Car for hard surface. Third can be Grapes. Why grapes? Because of its complicated structure: Maybe some kind of Mobius String: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 16, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Try adding a hard edge torroidal. http://www.filedropper.com/toroidaltest Edited September 16, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 a test with another body overall good chest need work fingers weird no strokes... just brute force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I continue to work, but let me tell you short description of what happens. I was supposing this task to last 2 or max 3 weeks. But it took around 6 or 7 weeks that is enormously big for me. It is frustrating and I feel that so long time and so big efforts are not correspoding to importance of this task - there are more important tasks that will take less time (for example layers groups or axial symmetry, bugfixing and a lot more). But I can't drop it, big progress done and I feel that I am close to very stable and nice result. So please be patient a bit more time, I need your support to finally finish it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ok, just had a spare couple of mins so I thought I would try out the new Autopo routines. How long should the process take? I ask, because I've just tried to retopo my Ben Grimm model and it sticks on 'CreatingCutGraph' - doesn't go past 0%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Ok, just had a spare couple of mins so I thought I would try out the new Autopo routines. How long should the process take? I ask, because I've just tried to retopo my Ben Grimm model and it sticks on 'CreatingCutGraph' - doesn't go past 0%.On some meshes it may hang. Ensure you are not using hardsurface retopology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 On some meshes it may hang. Ensure you are not using hardsurface retopology. Thanks Andrew. I will go back and give this another go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Errm.. still no joy. I will return to this when I get another break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I got a hang up also, I wasn't able to do further testing, but it was an uncomplicated surface mesh of about 600k triangles. There was a fair amount of self intersections because I used crease clay on it and then in the vox layer RMB menu, I used extrude function(Love this function, but seems to cause problems in the mesh) twice. Then I decimated the mesh to around 100K triangles. Then I did autotopo and painted my density, I didn't put on any guides, I had x-symmetry on and then it hung at 0%. I'm not sure what it was, but maybe the self intersections caused some issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I have a lot of deep detail in the sculpt (Ben Grimm - aka Thing - brick details) 12mill in surface mode. Didn't use Hard Surface, nor symm, nor decimate or voxelise. Used guides. Hangs at 0% CreatingCutGraph. I'm so busy at the moment, but I will try to have another go as soon as I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Marc Wakefield Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I am having issues retopoing anything at all now. basic shapes like primitives merged together as rudimentary forms are taking forever. I even tried messing about with a sphere and retopoing. It has created several holes and an unusable mesh (result attached) The old system was not perfect but it was certainly very quick. I am certain I must be doing something wrong as it used to feel effortless. Edited September 17, 2013 by Marc Wakefield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Marc Wakefield Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 False Alarm! It is still lighting quick for the above types of objects if you un-tick create edgeloops. Cool! All is good with the world again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Marc Wakefield Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 The new method also seems to be working well again.... I will let you know if I can figure out what was going wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Spiral-like topology is really hard to avoid. Every test i do found it fixed ------------------------------------------ Lowering quads density decreases probability of spirals. Sometimes it is worth to make lower density at the beginning and then subdivide model afterwards. ok, i understood now the decimate options. ty. ----------------------- Any chance to save the modulator map? it's getting tedious to redraw it all the time. This upgrade is going to be a piece or art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Psionic Posted September 17, 2013 Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Am also having various issues - crashes, extreme slowness, offset mesh created, weirdly broken meshes, very low poly meshes created occasionally even though target is set to 5,000+, viewport slowdown to 6-12 FPS. Don't mean to sound negative, just reporting my findings... The only success I'm having is by turning off 'create edgeloops with AUTOPO' and using the old basic method which is good enough for now. Keep cracking at it Andrew, seems potentially awesome but still a few rough edges to smooth off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Someone mentioned Zbrush....and of course Modo has it's rather expensive CAD loader tools which create effective hard edged meshes. Would this Dynamesh/Live Clay approach of Vitaly Bulgarov be easier, and more effective? http://i.imgur.com/31MINd7.jpg Posted with all due respects to the work of this very accomplished artist not for the purposes of copyright infringement but for the purposes of scholarly dialogue. It's an excerpt from this book; http://www.bookdepository.com/book/9781118066805?redirected=true&gclid=COKbtrPp0rkCFYw1QgodhVQArQ http://www.bulgarov.com/blackphoenix_d7.html And Modo CAD loaders http://www.luxology.com/store/CAD_Loaders_for_modo/ "Not just a file translator...it's got an INTEGRATED TESSELATION ENGINE" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFYDrkUjcW0#t=30 I'm not saying this is what Andrew should do; I'm merely suggesting that his approach may be too automated, be too far beyond the capacities of the available algorithms or today's available computers..Maybe what is needed is a more integrated approach halfway between autopo and retopo by hand...and I'm not just thinking of the clumsy way we now can try to prep the autopo with wobbly hand drawn indicator splines. That's what Modo seems to be doing with imported STEP and IGES files...some of its retopo is automated and other parts are laying down sub d splines by hand on the original imported mesh. Maybe if Andrew ported in Open SubD from Pixar he could use its tools to this effect on voxel and Live Clay sculpts.. Edited September 17, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 17, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I continue to work, but let me tell you short description of what happens. I was supposing this task to last 2 or max 3 weeks. But it took around 6 or 7 weeks that is enormously big for me. It is frustrating and I feel that so long time and so big efforts are not correspoding to importance of this task - there are more important tasks that will take less time (for example layers groups or axial symmetry, bugfixing and a lot more). But I can't drop it, big progress done and I feel that I am close to very stable and nice result. So please be patient a bit more time, I need your support to finally finish it. This is a MAJOR feature, and it NEEDED some improvement, because the way it was, I rarely ever used it. Spiral edgeloops and it not putting strokes specifically along hard edges, where one may put a stroke guide down. It's more of a viable option now...just needs to work correctly. So, it was/is definitely worth the time investment. As I mentioned before, it is critical for anyone considering 3D Coat as a modeling alternative. They might be somewhat turned off it they have to manually retopo everything after they constructed their model(s) in the Voxel Room....feeling like they'd have to basically model twice. If Auto Retopo works on many of their models, then that concern goes out the window. You're just used to a fast pace, and it's ok to take your time and get it right, on something this important. Plus, you're very close already. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 I continue to work, but let me tell you short description of what happens. I was supposing this task to last 2 or max 3 weeks. But it took around 6 or 7 weeks that is enormously big for me. It is frustrating and I feel that so long time and so big efforts are not correspoding to importance of this task - there are more important tasks that will take less time (for example layers groups or axial symmetry, bugfixing and a lot more). But I can't drop it, big progress done and I feel that I am close to very stable and nice result. So please be patient a bit more time, I need your support to finally finish it. Andrew, I know you like to work on new stuff, and know you're super quick at programming what you're thinking. That itself is amazing! Really. For you spending that amount of time must feel forever, and excruciatingly painful. BUT, it is very needed! It gives 3DC the level of polish that people want and need. I've given demonstrations of 3DC and people say, "Hey that's cool. But, it crashes a lot. We can't use that in production." Or some variation of that comment. The auto retopology tools are finally nearing a level of polish that makes it's useable and adoptable. Now, do this in every area of the program! Really, I'm not joking. Spend that long on each area, on each function. In one year's time, 3DC will be the best, top shelf application you can find on the market for retopo, 3D painting, UV mapping, the UI and digital sculpting. Doing that level of refinement and polish on each area, with a build every 6 weeks sounds perfectly fine to me. I'm sure most would agree. Your work doesn't go unnoticed! I'm talking about with folks a few times a week, at least. It always comes up at our 3D User Groups here locally, even at Foundry and autodesk events. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tser Posted September 17, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Andrew, I know you like to work on new stuff, and know you're super quick at programming what you're thinking. That itself is amazing! Really. For you spending that amount of time must feel forever, and excruciatingly painful. BUT, it is very needed! It gives 3DC the level of polish that people want and need. I've given demonstrations of 3DC and people say, "Hey that's cool. But, it crashes a lot. We can't use that in production." Or some variation of that comment. The auto retopology tools are finally nearing a level of polish that makes it's useable and adoptable. Now, do this in every area of the program! Really, I'm not joking. Spend that long on each area, on each function. In one year's time, 3DC will be the best, top shelf application you can find on the market for retopo, 3D painting, UV mapping, the UI and digital sculpting. Doing that level of refinement and polish on each area, with a build every 6 weeks sounds perfectly fine to me. I'm sure most would agree. Your work doesn't go unnoticed! I'm talking about with folks a few times a week, at least. It always comes up at our 3D User Groups here locally, even at Foundry and autodesk events. My sentiments exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolyHertz Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 I continue to work, but let me tell you short description of what happens. I was supposing this task to last 2 or max 3 weeks. But it took around 6 or 7 weeks that is enormously big for me. It is frustrating and I feel that so long time and so big efforts are not correspoding to importance of this task - there are more important tasks that will take less time (for example layers groups or axial symmetry, bugfixing and a lot more). But I can't drop it, big progress done and I feel that I am close to very stable and nice result. So please be patient a bit more time, I need your support to finally finish it. I agree with what everyone else is saying; half-working features help no one. Finish the feature so that you and everyone else who wants it can be satisfied with the results before moving on to the other areas that need attention. And that goes for any feature you implement in the future as well. I'm glad to hear you mention layer groups, and hope the dedication you're showing to auto-retopology is reflective of the effort you'll put in once work is started on the Paint room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member AniRhythm Posted September 18, 2013 Member Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hi All, I'm using the 4.07 version - am having a ton of trouble with the UV'ng - at least with one particular model - I tried manually and with the uv path ....and for example ...the right hand glove - makes the new section ...but the left, simply refuses to make a section ...may have to switch back to main release because there's no working around it ...even tried new paths - I also suspect a memory leak somewhere because sometimes I have to shut down the software and restart it to clean out errors that seem to carry over from re-loading a file. Also , on the auto topo - if I keep the edgeloops checked ....it hangs - remove edgeloops option, it works....wasn't the case with the prior version. and I can also confirm the holes issues - I was violently modeling ( lol ) and insteand of stretching, the voxels would rip - I tried fixing them with overlapping, but when I tried to smooth it out or add clay ..the holes came back.....and the software would randomly crash when I tried to use the bridge function - I think it has part to do with the brush randomly shooting off to different directions of the mesh and making the bridge bigger than it was supposed to be. Overall I love the software and commend Andrew on his amazing progress - bugs and all! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 19, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) You know I spent half of today going back and forth putting the autopo through its paces and finding out a lot about just how it works and has to be set up. I'm finding out a lot about not only autopo but what you have to do to prepare the voxel sculpt for autopo, particularly preceding your autopo with CLOSE INVISIBLE HULLS and then FILL VOIDS. The jury is far from being out on 7A. There's a lot of work to be done just on figuring out the best way to use it. A lot of the nasty holes and surface topology anomalies we're seeing produced here are being caused by improperly prepared voxels. You should never assume your voxel sculpt isn't full of bubbles and weird interior chamber caves that can't be spotted by the eye. I was mainly working with 6A and after I solved my problems I found that 6A is frankly amazing in its own right. Now that I've got my own mistakes squared away I'm going to reinstall 7A and give it some close scrutiny.. Edited September 19, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Are you all so kind and don't forget to post errors and example files (if possible) into mantis too, please. So Andrew can ask questions or post the error status individually. Click -> 3D Coat Bugtracker Of course you are invited to continue your discussion here. But it makes it easier to trace issues when you post them into our bug system. Thank you very much Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Good point I did not post to Mantis, but I did send my test file to Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted September 19, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 I continue to work, but let me tell you short description of what happens. I was supposing this task to last 2 or max 3 weeks. But it took around 6 or 7 weeks that is enormously big for me. It is frustrating and I feel that so long time and so big efforts are not correspoding to importance of this task - there are more important tasks that will take less time (for example layers groups or axial symmetry, bugfixing and a lot more). But I can't drop it, big progress done and I feel that I am close to very stable and nice result. So please be patient a bit more time, I need your support to finally finish it. Dont underestimate the importance of this feature. Its a major feature. Retopo work is very time consuming and I avoid it unless there's no other choice.. If this new one will enable cleaner and better topology its a big deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 20, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 I've been working on my fresh install of 07 and it's astoundingly powerful. It's an immense success. We just have to learn how to use it. I'll update this post with a more extensive one shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Updated to 4.0.07A Auto-retopology improved, should work better and give more stable result. But it still requires work. Please send me any problematic files (bad quality or hang) directly to support@3d-coat.com with subject "Autoretopo problem" - for ease of seeking. This will help to reach stable point much faster. Please be careful wit: 1) Enabling hardsurface on soft meshes will give wrong result 2) Symmetry is very important! 3) Too many guidelines may drop down quality. Mark only really important guides. But in most cases guides are not required at all. Thanks for feedback and patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 20, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Thanks for the rapid upgrade Andrew. Even on soft bodies, hard edge works fine. http://i.imgur.com/YmDOsjO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lVFpu4b.jpg No bad spirals, just clean mesh, and this thing runs FAST. The only thing that's throwing me into a state where the program doesn't respond is when I paint out small areas for extra details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 Thanks for the rapid upgrade Andrew. Even on soft bodies, hard edge works fine. http://i.imgur.com/YmDOsjO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/lVFpu4b.jpg No bad spirals, just clean mesh, and this thing runs FAST. The only thing that's throwing me into a state where the program doesn't respond is when I paint out small areas for extra details Good! Btw, try with symmetry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted September 20, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 20, 2013 (edited) Good! Btw, try with symmetry. That particular statue doesn't take symmetry, but on the big frame symmetry works well except for some artifacting at the symmetry line both in 6A and 7 http://i.imgur.com/TJ2V6xX.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0xyue2A.jpg Scroll down to the full post from Wednesday Sept 19 http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8588&page=4 It's nothing that can't be quickly trimmed by hand but still it's not quite perfect. Autopo with edge loops seems to work best for me. http://i.imgur.com/KkV8bdc.jpg Here's a comparison between voxelization and decimation both with edge loops and otherwise identical parameters http://i.imgur.com/bjs6GuY.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LbvEyn0.jpg By contrast the decimation worked far far beyond even what 6A could do and it did it fast, like under 5 minutes. http://i.imgur.com/EmaFM1n.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WdR9XcN.jpg http://i.imgur.com/iaa6PC4.jpg There's no way 6A could have resolved the leaves and that candle holding spike like that. The one bug I am consistently coming up against in 6A and 7 though is with the tweaking of auto density by painting it on weak spots that call for more topology; this invariable throws my 8 Xeon cores with 8 gigs of RAM into a state of "not responding", even in small amounts.. http://i.imgur.com/aHfXGgc.jpg One last test before bed. Without edge loops doesn't give quite as fine a result but it's really really fast, like under a minute. http://i.imgur.com/6HkI74H.jpg http://i.imgur.com/eZkOL8U.jpg And of course it gives a more even mesh since it's not set up to give extra detail to more delicate areas. Edited September 20, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts