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Andrew Shpagin

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

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Yeah, I don't go over a value of 5, either....so, maybe leave it the way it, is by default, but give the user a warning if they try to add a value larger than 5.

I do not mind a warning but I am a a big boy.... unless  we are all regulated to children...  led by hand, now Johnny don't do not touch this or that... thus I am regulated always a child... but when I came became a man I put childen things behind me.....

Edited by digman

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I do not mind a warning but I am a a big boy.... unless  we are all regulated to children...  led by hand, now Johnny don't do not touch this or that... thus I am regulated always a child... but when I came became a man I put childen things behind me.....

Is there a use to any brush with detail value above 5?..... I would like to know....because I really don't see it.

Its not overkill... its plain killing the mesh...

Before we could go much higher values but it is still proportional to the value we have at 5 now...Andrew just adjusted it.

No limits ,just for the sake of it...I'm not sure its good idea.

Even in Sculptris detail slider has a max capacity...

We are not children but its useless to give user access to destructive values...like 1 million depth...

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Is there a use to any brush with detail value above 5?..... I would like to know....because I really don't see it.

Its not overkill... its plain killing the mesh...

Before we could go much higher values but it is still proportional to the value we have at 5 now...Andrew just adjusted it.

No limits ,just for the sake of it...I'm not sure its good idea.

Even in Sculptris detail slider has a max capacity...

We are not children but its useless to give user access to destructive values...like 1 million depth...

This is what I mean, what you use as a user might not be used by another users... On a low polygon surface mode object the ability to adjust greater than 5 was a good feature... You could on a low surface mode mesh stamp high details but I guess that is not now considered...  We all must use 5 million or more as a base.... A dictatorship of polygon use decided by the developers or other users...

 

Yes, I know I can use the subdivide tool to increase an local area but that involves now another needless step in the process... In 3.7 I add no problem adding a large brush radius stamp on a lower polygon surface mode object because I could push the detail slider beyond "5"... I could type in the number for a large radius brush to have enough detail to stamp with. That is now impossible without using the subdivide tool first... You can type up to 10 but it seems to have no effect...

Edited by digman

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@Haikalle and Artman:

That is not actually an error, is a limitation we had imposed hard-coded on the amount of faces per-cell around 20K triangles , during subdivision, because Andrew and I thought artist don't need to go crazy with such high poly-count in large strokes anyway. This can easily be changed (or exposed to the artist in detrimental of the simplicity) or even completely removed but your RAM can suffer if go crazy with tiny polygons. But after each end of stroke, cells are rearranged so the counter is reset, meaning is not a real limitation on how many detail you can achieve, but on a single stroke continuously only.

Anyway, we can increase it since performance now is so good that average artist PC has more room to spare :)

 

As more good news I've improved further subdivision algorithm and now is even faster, robust and "topologically beautiful" under any circumstances. :)

Thanks for this info. It's good to know that this limitation is planned and it makes senses. I was just testing and trying to find some bugs. I'm okey to leave it as it is right now.  

To me sculpting feels very natural right now. I think you hitted the jackpot this time Andrew and Raul.

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Yes please. The pose tool gizmos are incredibly awkward, not sure why they can't be the regular transform gizmos.

I've gotten very used to the unique Pose gizmo, it's hard to imagine it being a regular one. Would it really work the same way if it was a regular gizmo? For example, there are two different kinds of scaling and moving in the Pose gizmo that maybe a regular gizmo can't do?

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This is what I mean, what you use as a user might not be used by another users... On a low polygon surface mode object the ability to adjust greater than 5 was a good feature... You could on a low surface mode mesh stamp high details but I guess that is not now considered...  We all must use 5 million or more as a base.... A dictatorship of polygon use decided by the developers or other users...

 

Yes, I know I can use the subdivide tool to increase an local area but that involves now another needless step in the process... In 3.7 I add no problem adding a large brush radius stamp on a lower polygon surface mode object because I could push the detail slider beyond "5"... I could type in the number for a large radius brush to have enough detail to stamp with. That is now impossible without using the subdivide tool first... You can type up to 10 but it seems to have no effect...

ok,I understand....(btw I use nver more than 200k as a base always...)

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Is there a use to any brush with detail value above 5?..... I would like to know....because I really don't see it.

Its not overkill... its plain killing the mesh...

Before we could go much higher values but it is still proportional to the value we have at 5 now...Andrew just adjusted it.

No limits ,just for the sake of it...I'm not sure its good idea.

Even in Sculptris detail slider has a max capacity...

We are not children but its useless to give user access to destructive values...like 1 million depth...

There is no maximum details actually. The only limitation is how much polygons may be add within one short stroke.

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well he says he dont see any difference between 5 and 10....maybe he should send you file+ stamps to test.

I dont use stamps so I cant really help here....

 

This is what I mean, what you use as a user might not be used by another users... On a low polygon surface mode object the ability to adjust greater than 5 was a good feature... You could on a low surface mode mesh stamp high details but I guess that is not now considered...  We all must use 5 million or more as a base.... A dictatorship of polygon use decided by the developers or other users...

 

Yes, I know I can use the subdivide tool to increase an local area but that involves now another needless step in the process... In 3.7 I add no problem adding a large brush radius stamp on a lower polygon surface mode object because I could push the detail slider beyond "5"... I could type in the number for a large radius brush to have enough detail to stamp with. That is now impossible without using the subdivide tool first... You can type up to 10 but it seems to have no effect...

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The picture shows what I am talking about...

 

The right side shows using the subdivide tool first to increase the polygons so I can place a stamp using the stamp tool... Simple stamp just to show what I am talking about.

 

The left side shows the same large radius brush set to 5 and then set to 10... Setting a detail of 5 has almost no effect of increasing the polygon count when using a large radius brush for stamping using the stamp tool in the e-panel. A setting of 10 is no better. 

 

Getting greater detail in an area as we all know is related to brush radius and the detail slider... So again in 3.7 I could set the detail slider to what I needed it to be for a large radius brush to stamp with added detail in an area.

 

I have mentioned this several times already ever since the ability was removed a year or so ago... I can live with using the subdivide tool first even though it is counter-productive.

If ours hands must be held so we can not run out in the street so to speak and get hurt by increasing the detail slider beyond what we really need then so be it.

post-518-0-14218700-1386591453_thumb.png

Edited by digman

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Yes, Digman, limitation is still there and we have place boundaries on how many subdivisions you can get, of course I understand your point so even if we don't use it often, is good to have the choice and this is what freedom is about. Bounds will be made softer (to avoid newcomers don't mess things and pros don't have real constraints)  :)

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@Farsthary

 

Speaking about reaching things as an artist: could we get an open param for crease clay ? Currently the last thing missing in 3dcoat from a sculpting toolset pov is a proper crease tool.

 

In zbrush you have the modifier on pinch, much like 3dcoat today, with the extrusion modulator, unfortunately be able to modulate the depth of the stroke is cool BUT there's no way to affect the pinch behaviour. 

 

I spend a lot of time using this tool, then using pinch only to tighten the crease. With a pinch parameters that could be solved in one go. Do you think it's possible ?

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@Farsthary

 

Speaking about reaching things as an artist: could we get an open param for crease clay ? Currently the last thing missing in 3dcoat from a sculpting toolset pov is a proper crease tool.

 

In zbrush you have the modifier on pinch, much like 3dcoat today, with the extrusion modulator, unfortunately be able to modulate the depth of the stroke is cool BUT there's no way to affect the pinch behaviour. 

 

I spend a lot of time using this tool, then using pinch only to tighten the crease. With a pinch parameters that could be solved in one go. Do you think it's possible ?

-depth controls pinch intensity + a little extrusion (but it really control pinching intensity)

- Extrusion modulator control true extrusion

 

so example 98% depth+ 0,1 extrusion modulator gives a Crease brush that do only pinching.

try : 90% depth+ 0.75 extrusion modulator...this should be close to what you want.

I've kept pinching low in my sharp preset because I don't like sucking in nearby wrinkles when I do wrinkes. :)

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Ok, this is counter intuitive. So my request is more about a proper alpha/ pinching order relative to extrusion. I want to replicate dam_standard. I currently can't, do you have an idea what's missing here ? I would say the pinching should be done after extrusion.

 

[Edit] Don't mind my last two messages. Got it. But I still think the depth slider controlling pinching is not intuitive from an user pov.

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Ok, this is counter intuitive. So my request is more about a proper alpha/ pinching order relative to extrusion. I want to replicate dam_standard. I currently can't, do you have an idea what's missing here ? I would say the pinching should be done after extrusion.

Replicating Dam_Standard is fairly easy,load a sphere in both apps and fiddle with above settings until you get what you want.

I reproduced it many times I just forgot exact values... (anyway I like mine better :p:,my alpha produce sharper strokes )

.gimme 10 minutes...I'll post settings...

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Tnx it's ok, I don't know why I idealized dam_standard, I use custom alphas for other crease brush on zbrush (similar to your sci-fi brushes) I must have mixed them up :)

 

Now that crease case is solved it'll be A LOT easier to establish planes especially with the flatten clay combo to planarize on each side of the edge, this duo is excellent for hard surface sculpts :)

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Tnx it's ok, I don't know why I idealized dam_standard, I use custom alphas for other crease brush on zbrush (similar to your sci-fi brushes) I must have mixed them up :)

 

Now that crease case is solved it'll be A LOT easier to establish planes especially with the flatten clay combo to planarize on each side of the edge, this duo is excellent for hard surface sculpts :)

glad you are happy I was in trying to reproduce it and damn :D  I forgot how not so great it is actually (unless lazy mouse spacing is brought down and brushmodifier cranked a bit)...It would take me a while to get it exactly I think ...its harder than I remembered(and boring too) so Im  happy you found  suitable settings...

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Now that crease case is solved it'll be A LOT easier to establish planes especially with the flatten clay combo to planarize on each side of the edge, this duo is excellent for hard surface sculpts :)

Fill is really cool too,you can do a hardsurface panel outline with a crease brush and fill it with Fill brush.

...boom!: armor plate B) ..

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I realize this isn't the latest beta, but I'm using the 4.0.10 (CUDA) (DX64).  One thing I'm noticing coming up in Voxel Mode as I open a model I'm sculpting, is that the Grow Brush is selected by default, as usual, but the settings make it go to something other than the brush I last used.  Has this always been this way and I didn't notice or is there a way to add a "last used brush settings" for each project?

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@Artman: Problem is fill is too violent to my taste, and, something that bothered me for a few builds now:

 

Highlight in voxel menu seems to be saved in the brush themselves now, and I hate that thing because it makes it hard to evaluate a sculpt when activated.

 

@Alvordr

 

It's the toggle function, it's been integrated by Andrew as a mean to quickly switch between two brushes. For instance use whatever key you use for freeze use it, let it go and it switch back to the last used brush.

You can either use it, or stack multiple tools under the same hotkey.

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I'm not sure this is the toggle.  I have to change the setting EVERY time I load the file.  The problem is I don't want my brushed to toggle, especially to a setting I never use.  While this is great for some users, I find it an unnecessary annoyance that didn't exist before.  Therefore, if this is the toggle, then it should toggle to settings I use, not ones I never do.

Edited by alvordr

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Did you associate your shortcut to a preset by chance ? Because if you don't check what you store in your preset (right click) you may keep calling the settings you saved in said preset (for instance radius saved can be quite an annoyance).

 

And I'll repeat because they need to hear it :) :

 

It's awesome. For the first time 3dc sculpting feels right. Surface control is on zbrush level, if not better in some tools :)

Can't wait to have the new routine in all brushes, even better if Raul refined the tesselation algorithm more :)

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Yes, Digman, limitation is still there and we have place boundaries on how many subdivisions you can get, of course I understand your point so even if we don't use it often, is good to have the choice and this is what freedom is about. Bounds will be made softer (to avoid newcomers don't mess things and pros don't have real constraints)   :)

Thanks Raul and Andrew it is much appreciated...

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@Artman: Problem is fill is too violent to my taste, and, something that bothered me for a few builds now:

 

Highlight in voxel menu seems to be saved in the brush themselves now, and I hate that thing because it makes it hard to evaluate a sculpt when activated.

 

 

yeah I posted a Mantis report about highlight issue and mentionned it to Andrew too a few post back,I hope it does not go unoticed.

 

About Fill...it needs to be violent otherwize the trick would not work,here example of 2 second trick Im talking about :

 

post-1195-0-39332600-1386606554_thumb.jp

I use crazy strong values but Fill at weak values can be  very subtle if you want...

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