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Andrew Shpagin

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

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Mari does, as does Blender in a very rudimentary sense, and iirc Bodypaint does as well (can't remember for sure on that one though). Technically if you're doing art just for fun you don't need anything, its just preference, but yes in a studio or even as a freelancer you're often given strict guidlines you need to adhere to for your master psd files. Sure you could do most of your texturing in 3DC and then transfer and organize the layers in Photoshop before submission, but this is an extra step that depending upon revisions might need to be done several times per asset. It also becomes an issue when you're working with very large layer sets or working with pre-sorted atlases.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like what you want isn't primarily bug fixes, it's a complete overhaul of the entire app from the ground up to be more consistent and user friendly. While I agree with this sentiment, I'm not sure if its something we'll ever see without massive support from the user base and even then there's a good chance it would just discourage Andrew from working on the app at all. 

Got links for those examples? Just curious. Thanks for the tips on what PROFESSIONALS do. Pretty big leap on your part, making assumptions about who is and is not a professional, here. Plenty of us here suggested certain UI changes and improvements back in the V4 Beta cycle, and some of that had to do with improving Paint layers. So, you can save your lecture on what PROFESSIONALS need (as if myself and others here are not). Beat Kitno contributed a LOT on that score and even he agrees that polish is better than pretty little trinkets.

 

BTW, who is calling for a complete overhaul?...unless you consider fixing what isn't working in the app, a complete overhaul.

Edited by AbnRanger

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I actually think both needs adressing quickly. I was the annoying guy screaming for sculpt room, while I still think the app must be bug free as much as possible, I also understand perfectly polyhertz pov. He has been asking this for a while now and never saw anything coming because, I, and a few others, have been all about the sculpt room. And I do agree that layer groups would help a lot for multiuser authoring in a production environnment btw (when working with a few dozen layer it's getting difficult to assess your content because there's no hierarchy, same could be said with the nested layers in sculpt room as they're not easily differentiated from the other layers)

 

So both needs fixing, I understand you need both to make your point come accross, but I've trust that this time Andrew and Raul will get it done. Just a little more patience (yeah I know I've been here :p)

 

If only Raul could be here all the time :/ I hope his work is facilitated in Cuba now as Andrew suggested.

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I actually think both needs adressing quickly. I was the annoying guy screaming for sculpt room, while I still think the app must be bug free as much as possible, I also understand perfectly polyhertz pov. He has been asking this for a while now and never saw anything coming because, I, and a few others, have been all about the sculpt room. And I do agree that layer groups would help a lot for multiuser authoring in a production environnment btw (when working with a few dozen layer it's getting difficult to assess your content because there's no hierarchy, same could be said with the nested layers in sculpt room as they're not easily differentiated from the other layers)

 

So both needs fixing, I understand you need both to make your point come accross, but I've trust that this time Andrew and Raul will get it done. Just a little more patience (yeah I know I've been here :p)

 

If only Raul could be here all the time :/ I hope his work is facilitated in Cuba now as Andrew suggested.

I've been asking repeatedly for a SHELL modifier/tool in the Retopo Room for ages and ages. If you need to create a shell/thickness for something like a wing, clothing, armor, etc. It's often a PITA to do...because 3D Coat has no shell modifier.

 

 

 

Same thing for Shift + Drag extrusion when using the Transform Tool in the Retopo Room. Could make the task a LOT easier than it is now. To me...that's a MUCH higher priority than Paint Layer Grouping. It's something everyone who uses the Retopo Tools will be using A LOT! With Paint Layer groups, not so much. Only a very small percentage of the userbase will find a use for it.

 

I've been asking for a long, long, long, long, long, long time....for a Dot Ring tool, like you have in Max, that could reduce the poly count of an Auto Retopo result, in just 2-3 clicks flat. Right now, if you have dozens of loops to delete, it can take a while. This solves it in 2-3 clicks. But I have patiently waited or other things to get fixed...such as Auto Retopo recently (still not working properly....can't get squat from it on hard surface models), now LiveClay/Surface mode with all the holes and such. To me...if you and Artman hadn't harped and harped to get the brushes fixed, sculpting in 3D Coat wouldn't be anywhere near what it is. It wasn't a matter of asking for a shiny new toy. It was asking for what is in 3D Coat to work the way it should.

Edited by AbnRanger

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AbnRanger: I apologize as it was never my intent to insult you or anyone else with they way I used the word "professional", I was simply using it as an alternative to "in a studio environment" / "as a freelancer". I have no idea who here does this professionally and who does it just for fun, and I am not going to assume either way. Despite that I need to make it clear in my posts which side I'm coming from for clarity sake, but for the future I'll try and make sure to avoid using that word here.

 

As for your request for examples of the layer groups in the apps I mentioned previously (couldn't confirm them for BodyPaint):

 

Mari: http://blog.advancedphotoshop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MARI-layer-system-1-copy4.jpg

Blender: http://wiki.blender.org/uploads/thumb/e/ee/Scripts_3D_texture_paint_layer_manager-panel.jpg/200px-Scripts_3D_texture_paint_layer_manager-panel.jpg

 

 

SHELL...It's something everyone who uses the Retopo Tools will be using A LOT! With Paint Layer groups, not so much. Only a very small percentage of the userbase will find a use for it.

 

Paint layer groups has almost 4x as many people asking for it as shell on Mantis.

Edited by PolyHertz

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AbnRanger: I apologize as it was never my intent to insult you or anyone else with they way I used the word "professional", I was simply using it as an alternative to "in a studio environment" / "as a freelancer". I have no idea who here does this professionally and who does it just for fun, and I am not going to assume either way. Despite that I need to make it clear in my posts which side I'm coming from for clarity sake, but for the future I'll try and make sure to avoid using that word here.

 

As for your request for examples of the layer groups in the apps I mentioned previously (couldn't confirm them for BodyPaint):

 

Mari: http://blog.advancedphotoshop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MARI-layer-system-1-copy4.jpg

Blender: http://wiki.blender.org/uploads/thumb/e/ee/Scripts_3D_texture_paint_layer_manager-panel.jpg/200px-Scripts_3D_texture_paint_layer_manager-panel.jpg

 

 
 

 

Paint layer groups has almost 4x as many people asking for it as shell on Mantis.

I'm pretty sure I supported that request, too...but like all the other feature requests myself and others have made (true Ambient Occlusion is among the oldest and most requested...and STILL no sign of it ever getting done), I realize that it's better to let things that need to get fixed take their rightful place at the front of the line.

 

When those things are done, then I am in favor of seeing things like Paint Layers and hopefully layer masks (on the layers w/thumbnails, just like it is done in PS) too.

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Well right now Andrews doing almost nothing but fixes, and I'm sure that gets tiring too. Features are the fun part of coding, it helps keep devs motivated to take a break from the bugs every so often. When 4.1 is released and work is started on the paint room I'm sure there will be plenty of bug fixes as well but asking Andrew to do just that would be a bit cruel.

Edited by PolyHertz
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Any possibility for adjustment layers? And lattice deformation for textures (before applied to the object) would be nice. But I'm dreaming here probably. ;)

 

Anyway, thanks for that great piece of software Andrew. Only started using it a while ago and still need to wrap my head around the complete workflow, but I like it a lot.

Lattice deformation over masks/materials is there for years :)

Just choose "deform" in materials control panel droplist.

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Andrew, will you be speeding up the paint layer on \ off switching. finding the correct layer to modify if I've Accidentally made a mistake can take quite a while with a model with many layers

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Thats why development team really need a roadmap ;)

 

A focused roadmap with milestone over scheduled time.

 

A roadmap let the betausers to focus finding bugs in every development step, like a group sharing experiences.

 

And let the users asking for changes/bugfixing in another areas not related to actual bugfixing, to know when the time to their betatesting begin.

 

But overall... let the developers to know if really need to fix a bug, or need to rewrite code from scratch because some code is old and first... they need to consolidate new features and then to fix later any issues.

 

my humble pov

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Lattice deformation over masks/materials is there for years :)

Just choose "deform" in materials control panel droplist.

 

You do not mean the 'Distort Image' feature that you can choose in the top window when a material is selected and where you can distort the image using a brush, right? Its great, but does not give exactly the kind of control I'm looking for.

 

What I'm talking about is this:

 

zec8.jpg

 

Is that possible? Where is that feature hidden? ;)

 

Excuse my questions that may be simple to answer. I have a lot to learn. ;)

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You do not mean the 'Distort Image' feature that you can choose in the top window when a material is selected and where you can distort the image using a brush, right? Its great, but does not give exactly the kind of control I'm looking for.

 

What I'm talking about is this:

 

zec8.jpg

 

Is that possible? Where is that feature hidden? ;)

 

Excuse my questions that may be simple to answer. I have a lot to learn. ;)

It works more like the Liquefy tool in PS

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Is that possible? Where is that feature hidden? ;)

 

Excuse my questions that may be simple to answer. I have a lot to learn. ;)

I wanted the same, but in Preview Options if you click on Paint, a new menu opens there is Distort. Its a brush (Liquify in PS) does the same and more as Warp. You better bind this texture's rotate/scale/pan functions to hotkeys via (Camera...Customize Navigation) as I did, so you can work very fast.

More advanced feature of this Distort is that with SHIFT+brushing you can undo distortion by increments.

Edited by mercy

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Andrew,at Beat's request another dot was added to display the other side of symmetry action when sculpting,

its very useful because this way you never forget if symmetry is on or not.

 

But...when working in lateral views its very disturbing...because both dots are dancing around each other....I find it very difficult to concentrate on strokes.Could you please make it so that it gets hidden when its backfacing camera....

or if too difficult/too long  make this new display optional in preferences.

 

thanx

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Lattice deformation over masks/materials is there for years :)

Just choose "deform" in materials control panel droplist.

 

I think you mean "Distort image?"

 

DistortImage.jpg

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guys...did you read his post? he tried it...



 

Its great, but does not give exactly the kind of control I'm looking for.

 

 

 

He does not want a brush based deformation...but  a LATTICE deformation....as shown on his picture.

 

Best suggestion is Beat's,to use external projection editor and use warp lattice in photoshop.

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Yeah, I'm aware of the distortion feature in 3D Coat that distorts images like the liquify filter in Photoshop. It works for many cases, but if you need precise control and need to distort a texture image in a more extreme way (don't know how else to put it) brushing the image into that shape is not optimal.

 

Try to pull a line into a nice, even circle using the distort brush, for example. It might work, but it'll take a long time, and you'll have to do a lot of brushing and pulling to eliminate unwanted distortions because its only possible to transform (move) the elements of the image, not rotate them.

 

Its much easier to use an actual lattice (the liquify filter is not a lattice as I understand it) where you have a limited number of control points that you can move around directly.

 

Its not a big thing, and this lattice distortion can be done outside of 3D Coat easily, but I though it'd be nice to have anyway.

Edited by wilson66

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Try to pull a line into a nice, even circle using the distort brush, for example. It might work, but it'll take a long time, and you'll have to do a lot of brushing and pulling to eliminate unwanted distortions because its only possible to transform (move) the elements of the image, not rotate them.

there is image along spline  tool that is really good to make even circles or closed shapes, i I use it on fabrics with laces,paisley and ropes all the time.

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Liquify is a lattice, but it's normally adjusted over more than one point at a time, depending on brush settings.  Beat's suggestion, while that does seem to be the only solution, defeats the point of the feature requested.  For that matter, I could simply have said why bother doing many things in 3D Coat that has been suggested for sculpting when you can do it in another app.  Clearly, that's not the answer to a feature request.

Edited by alvordr

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Don't get emotional again, Beat.  I was just pointing out that (same words as above), while your workaround is the only solution currently, it's not the answer to a feature request.

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So a workaround for many of the problems you've been addressing lately can be solved by using ZBrush or Mudbox and avoiding any features or fixes....got it :)

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Yeah, cause the option to use edit projection in external software is just for show. I mean, don't use it EVER, it may be helpful.

You're right, it's better to leave people with their problem if a workaround involves another software...

 

This is sad, a while ago we would discuss workflow involving different software sometimes because it was quicker, other times because some software lacked functions others had. Now we're 3dcoat community, more intolerant than zbrush. Cool.

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A feature request, just because it wasn't important to you, doesn't mean it should get ignored, completely.  My point still stands...if you don't like the smoothing or brush "feel" in 3DC use an external editor and let 3DC stand where it is.  I, for one, don't have the problems you do, because I have little to no need for the SF or LC areas of 3DC...yet those like myself have waited for your requests to get handled.  Relax and let the man have his day.

Edited by alvordr

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