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Andrew Shpagin

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

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ajz3d: That's the micromesh feature. It replaces every polygon on a surface with a seperate mesh (should be square in proportion) and stretches it based on the proportions of the polygon its replacing. Never tried it on a triangulated mesh (don't think it'd work) but works great for creating extremely detailed surfaces over a quad mesh.

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Micromesh it is then. Thank you PolyHertz. This is one AWESOME feature I most definitely lack in 3DC. Especially when sculpting-in fabric patterns into clothes.

I tried to sculpt-in a gabardine pattern once, but after several attempts (with alphas) I resigned. The quality and performance of that operation was below acceptable level. And the seams were way too much visible.

Edited by ajz3d
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Updated to 4.1.11

- Symmetry polished to work in all modes.

- Symmetry dialog is now popup and dockable.

- Step symmetry

- Split tool fixed

- Blending modes corrected for better compatibility with PS

- opacity of layer transferred correctly from PS to 3DC

- Tangent space/triangulation options introduced into Preferences. This requires some additional work to understand what setting are best for each external software. I will publih test files very soon to check on different software.

- a lt of mantis problems fixed.

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I saw this ZBrush video several days ago, it was made by Chris Whitaker:

 

At about 3:10 the artist defines a 3D pattern and a few moments later he wraps it around a tammy with an amazing ease.

Could this feature find its way into 3D Coat? It's probably called somehow, but my adventure with ZBrush ended around early version 3 several years ago, so I have no idea what it's called.

 

Also, note how smooth the surface of the sculpture is. Especially the face - and with no additional smoothing - meaning no effort and frustration from the artist.

I understand that this is subdivision-based sculpting and 3D Coat is triangle-based, but maybe it's worth to at least consider drifting towards quad's direction? Even if this would be a new feature? A feature for a tweak room maybe? This 3DC's room is dormant. No improvements to it has been made in ages. Well, at least not since I became a member of the forum.

 

 

 Micromesh is ok, for what it is it's kinda meh, but it's really the best that can be done with a polygonal based solution. There are much better options that would be well suited to 3d-coat. Mesh quilting comes to mind as does this. There is a lot of power to still be tapped in volumetric modeling.

 

 The mesh smoothing in Zbrush is far from no effort. Getting a refined surface that maintains its structure and artistic intent takes tremendous effort in Zbrush, though I will say it does seem to be harder in 3d-coat, particularly in surface mode! I am still having difficulty getting to the same level of surface refinement in 3d-coat that I achieve in Zbrush.

Edited by Aabel
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Also, note how smooth the surface of the sculpture is. Especially the face - and with no additional smoothing - meaning no effort and frustration from the artist.

I understand that this is subdivision-based sculpting and 3D Coat is triangle-based, but maybe it's worth to at least consider drifting towards quad's direction? Even if this would be a new feature? A feature for a tweak room maybe? This 3DC's room is dormant. No improvements to it has been made in ages. Well, at least not since I became a member of the forum.

 

I didn't re-watch the  video (it's been around for a while) but it's pure dynamesh if I recall correctly. Meaning it's partly quad but no better than pure tris with proper algorithms.

 

What's missing in 3dc is a proper smoothing algorithm, we have like 4-5 of them, only strong smooth (Raul addition under TSmooth tool) is really effective (but you can't change its effect to have control)... If Andrew took a look at it and adapted it to be controlable like regular smoothing is, that would change everything. Try it, you'll see, it literally eats the surface but the surface under it is as smooth as a subsurface sculpt. What I would Highly recommend is put that as a shift/ctrl+shift option and add curve control.

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One thing I don't understand with the new sym system. All the pieces are here to make it solid. Except they don't work together.

 

We still have no saving of symmetry params PER OBJECT.

Something zbrush had since 2.5...

I want to make symmetrical shoulderpad for a character on one side:

 

I activate z sym and work.

 

Now I move to the torso, I obviously don't want symmetry on Z axis only X axis: I activate X and deactivate Z.

 

Then I want to work some more on the shoulderpad: I need to reactivate Z and deactivate X...

 

Why the symmetry settings can't be saved per object in the 3b file ?? This is even worse as soon as you have symmetrical work to do on objects not on the same plane: you need to pick the sym plane manually creating all sort of shenanigan on the proportions everytime you change your object selection !

You even put this request on resolved without fixing it...

I didn't bother to put it back on track, last time I did that you never looked back, the same as the few dozen of requests/adjustements (not new tools just small changes) and bug reports lost in the 4.0 mantis project and those before...

These boards will disappear, and the bug reports along with it,that's a given.

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One thing I don't understand with the new sym system. All the pieces are here to make it solid. Except they don't work together.

 

We still have no saving of symmetry params PER OBJECT.

Something zbrush had since 2.5...

I want to make symmetrical shoulderpad for a character on one side:

 

I activate z sym and work.

 

Now I move to the torso, I obviously don't want symmetry on Z axis only X axis: I activate X and deactivate Z.

 

Then I want to work some more on the shoulderpad: I need to reactivate Z and deactivate X...

 

Why the symmetry settings can't be saved per object in the 3b file ?? This is even worse as soon as you have symmetrical work to do on objects not on the same plane: you need to pick the sym plane manually creating all sort of shenanigan on the proportions everytime you change your object selection !

You even put this request on resolved without fixing it...

I didn't bother to put it back on track, last time I did that you never looked back, the same as the few dozen of requests/adjustements (not new tools just small changes) and bug reports lost in the 4.0 mantis project and those before...

These boards will disappear, and the bug reports along with it,that's a given.

Im currently working on a character using multiple symmetry settings in 4.1.10B and it remember settings correctly per object.

I have object in X,some in Y, some in Local Space ,some in Global space some On,some OFF and 3DCoat remember each settings for my objects when I select them.

I don't understand why its not working on your side

 

Edit:Andrew,It seems to stop working after a while.... :( actually I can't seem to make it work more than like 5 seconds .....

Objects start borrowing symmetry setup of previously selected object.

It stop working sometimes after navigating or just minimizing/maximizing 3Dcoat...or maybe its random.

but there is definitly a problem here.

 

Beat,Im the one who put this issue as resolved ...sorry,it really did work when I tested it.

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One thing I don't understand with the new sym system. All the pieces are here to make it solid. Except they don't work together.

 

We still have no saving of symmetry params PER OBJECT.

Something zbrush had since 2.5...

I want to make symmetrical shoulderpad for a character on one side:

 

I activate z sym and work.

 

Now I move to the torso, I obviously don't want symmetry on Z axis only X axis: I activate X and deactivate Z.

 

Then I want to work some more on the shoulderpad: I need to reactivate Z and deactivate X...

 

Why the symmetry settings can't be saved per object in the 3b file ?? This is even worse as soon as you have symmetrical work to do on objects not on the same plane: you need to pick the sym plane manually creating all sort of shenanigan on the proportions everytime you change your object selection !

You even put this request on resolved without fixing it...

I didn't bother to put it back on track, last time I did that you never looked back, the same as the few dozen of requests/adjustements (not new tools just small changes) and bug reports lost in the 4.0 mantis project and those before...

These boards will disappear, and the bug reports along with it,that's a given.

My fault. I checked and fixed.

I will upload build 4.1.11A soon

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I didn't have time yet to try new symmetry. But can someone confirm crash when adding simple primitive sphere in surface mode in voxel room?

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I don't have that issue (win version though).On the other end I get a huge amount of "missing tris" aka holes on primitive I sculpt into place (no conversion from outside geometry responsible then). Most of the time it's harmless as it's fixed with close holes command. But they keep reappearing randomly at times and sometimes the command freeze 3dcoat. Anyone else get that ?

If that can help: I recently reintegrated flattenclay and TSmooth (strong) in my toolset, could be the cause.

 

 

Thanks Andrew.

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I didn't have time yet to try new symmetry. But can someone confirm crash when adding simple primitive sphere in surface mode in voxel room?

No crash here....works fine (I used the sphere primitives from primitive tool0

But if symmetry is on 3DCoat will freeze od course ( because it is trying to merge 2 completely overlapping objects...which is impossible in 3DC)

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No crash here....works fine (I used the sphere primitives from primitive tool0

But if symmetry is on 3DCoat will freeze od course ( because it is trying to merge 2 completely overlapping objects...which is impossible in 3DC)

Which shouldn't happen btw: Activate symmetry on a layer, Import/merge a zbrush or whatever mesh in 0 <in that axis>, get a crash ? Not cool.

Either ignore symmetry or display a warning before committing...

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+1 to BeatKitano. 

Anyway add primitive tool seems buggy, but not always reproducible.  I mean sometimes it fails even on empty layer (so it shouldn't have boolean intersection problem), sometimes it crashes 3dc. Just second ago it crashes on cylinder tool, now it work ok :(.  Hard to reproduce but annoying since this is so basic tool.  This is about surface mode. Voxel mode works ok.

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Import layer opacity seems to mostly work now, but it's very often just slightly off on the %.

ie. 57% become 56%, 19% becomes 18%, etc.

 

The problem with hitting a 'wall' when painting seems to be solved too, though it wasn't in the release notes :)

 

---

 

Btw, the new symmetry system is nice, but it doesn't solve one of the long standing symmetry issues; painting on a symmetrical meshe with non-symmetrical UVs will result in the paint only being applied to the uv cluster where the paint started, for instance (brush stroke started just outside the eyes area):

 

Example mesh: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4210886/triHead_symeye.obj

 

rGurrzB.jpg

Edited by PolyHertz

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post-10142-0-24679000-1407100632_thumb.j

 

new pref settings

any help is welcome

 

-------------------------

Layers groups -parent and childs-

Clone with sym, clone instance with sym

 

dont respect parent Sym options but all children sym options, result its a mess.

 

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=1555

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After updating to 4.1.11A, when i open up a voxel sculpt project from previous versions,  the "Pick-Layer" key H doesn't work, unless i switch over to the paint room, use it once, and then switch back to the voxel room. Not really a big deal, but a workaround.

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ok, so where could we post feature ideas / suggestions now? Mantis seem to be for bug reports only ... 

BTW - hope that we will be able to use existing logins and/or Mantis will be more tightly integrated into main site. Having 2 more sub sites is IMO not the best solution , it dilutes content (hope you know what I mean).

 

That is not correct. Mantis is used for bug reports and feature requests. Keep using Mantis for both.

 

Only Chris and Vladimir can talk about if Mantis and the forum logins will be integrated. I don't know if that is in the works, but it's been on my mind, and will mention it.

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Hello,

 

When could it be possible to use the new symetry system for Mac users ?

The Mac version is a lot of steps behind. :look:

 

Thank you

 

Staky :)

It will happen in 2-3 days.
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It will happen in 2-3 days.

 

Thanks Andrew. :)

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Micromesh is ok, for what it is it's kinda meh, but it's really the best that can be done with a polygonal based solution. There are much better options that would be well suited to 3d-coat. Mesh quilting comes to mind as does this. There is a lot of power to still be tapped in volumetric modeling.

 

 The mesh smoothing in Zbrush is far from no effort. Getting a refined surface that maintains its structure and artistic intent takes tremendous effort in Zbrush, though I will say it does seem to be harder in 3d-coat, particularly in surface mode! I am still having difficulty getting to the same level of surface refinement in 3d-coat that I achieve in Zbrush.

Indeed, both papers look very interesting. Especially the one about mesh quilting - I think that it even was already mentioned by someone in this thread a couple of months ago. I wonder if those algorithms are patented or can be freely incorporated into software with their authors' consent. Seeing some form of quilting in 3DC would be ace.

 

I didn't re-watch the  video (it's been around for a while) but it's pure dynamesh if I recall correctly. Meaning it's partly quad but no better than pure tris with proper algorithms.

 

What's missing in 3dc is a proper smoothing algorithm, we have like 4-5 of them, only strong smooth (Raul addition under TSmooth tool) is really effective (but you can't change its effect to have control)... If Andrew took a look at it and adapted it to be controlable like regular smoothing is, that would change everything. Try it, you'll see, it literally eats the surface but the surface under it is as smooth as a subsurface sculpt. What I would Highly recommend is put that as a shift/ctrl+shift option and add curve control.

I see. But the sculpture the artist is working on doesn't seem to require any additional (unnecessary) smoothing anywhere except after laying down strokes. While in 3D Coat I constantly have to massage the surface in order to get rid of lumpiness that pops out in various areas.

 

Normally I use Powerful Smoothing, which generally works okay, but sometimes the sculpture requires a lot of massaging and special attention, especially when smoothing areas near relatively sharp corners as they can get triangulated in an unwanted way.

 

Here, for example, I cannot get rid of bumpiness on upper and lower lips. I can massage as long as I want and still end up in the same place as before smoothing. Area around hard corners can be smoothed out by slightly pinching them, but after this I need to pay attention not to get near them with a smoothing brush, because if I do, then lumpiness will appear.

 

post-12523-0-09626900-1407144583_thumb.j

 

I tried the Strong smooth and yeah, it looks promising and probably would be perfect if it didn't eat surface like a hungry fox does chickens when it sneaks into a hen house. :)

 

---

A question to Andrew:

I noticed that tangent space normalization options disappeared from preferences window. Are they replaced by the new tangent space standard setting?

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