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Andrew Shpagin

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

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The only thing I'd like to see with the renderer is a way to remember the settings. I use the same ones every time and its a pain to enter them repeatedly. Otherwise I'm quite satisfied with it.

this

Im a little confused about the shader situation... while I agree an update to the UI regarding shaders is truly needed... and to separate SHADER from shader settings would also be nice... the idea that a shader + settings is a "shader" is obnoxious - but the shading engine is great. 1) I'd like to be able to have a shader adjustment box that allows me to adjust the settings of the current objects' shader 2) I'd like to be able to save those shader adjustments as a preset, not a whole new shader 3) I'd like to be able to "connect up" shader reference textures, rather than have them be a fixed part of the shader Truly the shaders are actually VERY VERY powerful as they are GLSL and HLSL shaders ..... better 2-sided transparent surfaces/see thu-ness. :) but that also might simply be a GLSL/HLSL limitation. long and short - better shader/settings UI paradigm, and better transparency appearance, otherwise - the rest works really well (IMO) for the purposes I use it for -previs.

this.

2 relatively small changes that would make a very big difference

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small changes, right

thats the point

If its possible... to do the small changes needed in another rooms before V4 release -not only sculpt/paint- can help a lot. :)

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This is one of the reasons I kind of prefer Zbrush's development cycle/philosophy, where they tend to ignore what the vocal minority/majority wants for new features, and keeps expanding on their own vision of the program.

There seems to be a handful of members who have in their minds that the software should be developed a certain way and that any attention given to areas/features not designed for their particular workflow are a waste of time. I think we can all agree that we strongly dislike bugs, but we desperately need to stop belittling areas of development that certain individuals perceive to be worthless endeavors. This is Andrew's software, and he can choose to add whatever features he thinks fits, and he can choose to focus on any area that he sees as a priority at any given time. Don't assume that because you use this software in a certain way, that everybody uses it in that same way and anything that strays from it is useless.

Andrew, keep up the good work, your software is invaluable to me and I always enjoy seeing where you want to push it next.

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A way to save render settings to their own file and then easily reload each of them, say via a drop down menu labeled "Presets", that is a perfect example of what I had in mind. Simple things which are quick and easy to implement (hopefully). The renderer in 3DC will never be capable of photo realistic output no doubt, nor complex like those which are. However I do feel it is missing some very basic... um, basics.

I find it's output can be quite similar to Marmoset with a bit of effort and luck; video game output is often what it looks and "feels" like to me. That's not necessarily a bad thing though and it should continue to embrace that instead of trying to copy others, such as ZBrush. Why reinvent the wheel? I too agree there is a lot of other stuff that needs to take precedence right now and for the foreseeable future, bugs in particular, but that doesn't mean the renderer should be ignored completely. For better or worse it's in there, isn't going away, and actually useful to some artists as we've seen. Perhaps it's time to consider hiring someone to help out for a little while?

Edit: Awesome post, b33nine! :)

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hiring someone to help or releasing the SDK -like Andrew said sometime ago- could be an option too

Angelscript is a good beginning to let the community to make addons...

and yes, output can be quite similar to Marmoset with a bit of effort and luck

The controls are there in the code... just let the user access it :D

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My preference is stability through reducing bugs first priority, UI doesn't matter, Renderer doesn't matter, more shaders/Materials don't matter.

The Tools/Methods should work as described each and every time they are used, no exception.

If a new tool or method is introduced it MUST be called a beta and labelled as such and don't remove the old method/tool until the new method/tool is completely bug free.

3DCoat development should be frozen and be thoroughly tested by as many users as possible for stability and bugs, as soon as all the bugs have been squashed the further development can continue, as long as new tools/methods are labelled BETA.

In this way you can market 3DCoat as stable with the user knowing that a particular tool/method is a new developmental beta, but the other (non beta) tools are rock solid.

Using this development method, users can use 3DCoat in a production setting, even though its the latest version, knowing that the beta parts of the application are well named and described.

T.

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Updated to beta15A. Several mantis issues fixed there. This build is close to release. 2-11 May I will get rest with my wife on Cyprus, if some critical problems with the build will appear, I will fix them by return. Please post everything you feel important to fix before V4 release to Mantis. Mac/Linux builds will be posted today or tomorrow.

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Updated to beta15A. Several mantis issues fixed there. This build is close to release. 2-11 May I will get rest with my wife on Cyprus, if some critical problems with the build will appear, I will fix them by return. Please post everything you feel important to fix before V4 release to Mantis. Mac/Linux builds will be posted today or tomorrow.

Thanks Andrew. Have a good time and get some rest (no laptop working on vacation :D ).

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I hope you have a great vacation Andrew. It is well deserved and long over due. Especially one with out the children. ;)

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While most of us (including me) are most concerned about bug fixes, we shouldn't confuse these beta builds for stable ones.

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@Andrew

Summer came very early this year in greece-cyprus. Enjoy the sea. Stay away from your laptop.

@beat,

No I didn't mean you.

3dcoat doesn't provide the few simple optimized brushes I need. (in voxels they are OK - almost) Nothing spontaneous though. Except the boolean related (voxels are great on this as expected)

It doesn't provide some improvements in render room. If you could just read more carefully for a moment... I asked, wished, for the ability to bake depth on a single plane. This is ridicoulously impossible for 3dcoat. This can be happen in render room, where else?

It doesn't provide a full functional sculpting room (multi rsolution) and baking from multires, (the only presize method)

It has some serious difficulties painting on 4k maps

V4, well, long way to go, to earn this v4, patience. IMO

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Rendering is so subjective anyway. I mean, you cant say that "photorealistic" or "GI" is "BETTER". I posted a 3dc render in a group effort on a specific mesh, among some of the heavyweight render engines, and a few people were asking what engine made it. It looked great and I spent very little effort on setup.

To label it worthless because it's not Max or Maya with all the bells and whistles, is kindof missing the mark. It's inique unto itself. It could also render a look that the max/maya crowd would have to try and "attain" to meet your vision of an object or character/scene B) .....

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I always treated 3D Coat Render Room only as a helper in basic previewing of high-poly models or how would your colour/spec/depth textures combo roughly look like. Something to show to your client/boss. I think that's what it was designed for.

It could benefit from some improvements, but in my opinion they should be improvements of what's already implemented. What I mean by that is for example:

1. The turntable, which I always have trouble setting up properly. I'm not sure how it works, but it always seems to put the camera aim point at the wrong place, so most of the time its completely useless to me. A moveable locator that would determine the centre of camera rotation would be a perfect solution here.

2. Visible DOF plane should be an infinite plane. For example, if you have a large character then you can't set the proper position of a DOF plane (at eyes), because it's to small and it's simply out of the viewport.

3. Lights should be visible in the viewport for easier manipulation.

Just my 5 cents.

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The best renderer I've used is Cheetah3D's and it's super easy to use and setup with lighting compared to Max or Maya. I've used all three, as well as others and I can say that 3D Coat's renderer isn't bad, but it definitely could use some work. Concept work is what I would personally use it for in its present state.

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I always treated 3D Coat Render Room only as a helper in basic previewing of high-poly models or how would your colour/spec/depth textures combo roughly look like. Something to show to your client/boss. I think that's what it was designed for. It could benefit from some improvements, but in my opinion they should be improvements of what's already implemented. What I mean by that is for example: 1. The turntable, which I always have trouble setting up properly. I'm not sure how it works, but it always seems to put the camera aim point at the wrong place, so most of the time its completely useless to me. A moveable locator that would determine the centre of camera rotation would be a perfect solution here. 2. Visible DOF plane should be an infinite plane. For example, if you have a large character then you can't set the proper position of a DOF plane (at eyes), because it's to small and it's simply out of the viewport. 3. Lights should be visible in the viewport for easier manipulation. Just my 5 cents.

Some excellent suggestions. I was looking at marmoset for preview renders but figured what the hell, its the same effort to do it in 3dmax vray and lw renderer since I have preset scenes anyway. I would use the renderer in 3dc for quick wips to send to clients if the render room was easier to use and use 3dmax and lightwave as finals.

So again imho we should not focus 90% on sculpting. Other people use 3dcoat in other ways.

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Sergiy uploaded win and mac build, see first page.

I am getting excellent rest there, very nice place there on the villa that we rent.

Stop posting and enjoy your vacation! :)

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Enjoy the summer Andrew, it is summer there right?

@all

About the render room etc.

A simple test: Sculpt a relief and bake it on a single face plane. I need 16 or 32 bit displacement maps, please.

The only missing is the render room / parallel camera, render and export depth map. Do you have any other idea on how to do it? I need 4096x4096 32 bit exr or 16 bit tif at least. (linear color space of course)

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Yes Andrew, the Cyprus economic disaster (even to a falloff in tourism) must provide excellent value for money. They desperately need your business (just don't put any money in the local banks!)

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Michalis, have you tried using Export->Export depth along Y?

Why I should try it? Is this what I'm looking for?

Is Y the depth? or is it Z?

If you have any example, please, this UI is completely confusing for me.

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Is it just me or is the ability to put things to global space to fix symmetry plane issues buggy again in 15A?

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Is it just me or is the ability to put things to global space to fix symmetry plane issues buggy again in 15A?

I think it's messed up, too. I've had it not line up at the origin, and had to click RESET SYMMETRY PLANE in the symmetry panel afterwards, to get it to reset the plane at the origin.
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