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V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)


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The presets do make a huge difference. I know Artman's presets have been available before, but getting an artist in the fold to help refine the tools that Andrew creates obviously is a game changer. It might be something to consider in getting someone on staff that can be that go between for the artists using the tool and the developer creating tools (somewhat similar to Pixolator).

Great job so far on this build guys, the tweaks and the presets make 3d-coat much more fun to use.

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Awesome! Rapid brushes no longer make mesh distortion with buildup ON, unlike in previous release. And it is great to have artman your brushes by default. Too bad I won't have more time to test those changes this week.

Edited by JoseConseco
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Anyone noticed the downloads have gotten really slow lately? It used to be like 2 or 3 minutes I thought, now it's 40 minutes to an hour and a half. Not complaining just noticed a difference.

I have a pretty fast connection and it only takes a few minutes. Maybe the transfer rate on 3D Coat's servers have slowed down. I don't know.

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Ok first:

My apologies to Andrew, I've been a p*** in the a** and I know it. I won't say it was ok because it was worth it (even if, mind you I really felt bad about it afterward, after the anger passed), but unfortunately it was:

This build has never been closer to the brushing feeling that I longed for so long now.

Because:

-The brush orientation doesn't suddenly tilt when brushing over angles: it makes for much cleaner edges and MUCH better stroke control (full hardsurface sculpt is now possible without lumpiness and jaggy edges, see attachement). And that's something, I honestly started to believe Michalis was right: no hope on dynamic tesselation for precise work. Turns out you proved me wrong.

-Artman brush tuning is fantastic. His clay serie is fantastic. He probably really played for a long time with the different brushes to create the alpha that compliments some brushes.

For instance the Flatten Clay is as good as the zbrush one, maybe even better (it flows really nicely, no more "alpha stamp blobs thingy"), and with the new orientation stabilization you an work on polishing the edges on each side of an angle without destroying the overall shape.

Now what surprises me is that if you look closely, Artman's brushes are based on what... 6-7 brushes and yet provides all the tool you need for a good sculpting session.

This brings me to the question: do we need all those specialized brushes visible by default ?

Imo 3dc would greatly benefit from a merge/test and eliminate/hide by default job. Maybe it's just hiding "special brushes" to avoid overwhelming new users (and the option is still there for power users to show them back later), and offering only the "good solid" brushes by default (imho some brushes of the clay serie of Artman should replace some "default brushes", but that's only my opinion).

OR at the very least, show the preset panel by default, because most users don't know about it on first contact, and they may miss the best brushes of the app.

And honestly: hire Artman, or at least take him as an advisor. The guy obviously knows the inner working of the brush engine much better than most of us and it shows (the alpha with his clay serie seems to have been made exclusively to "attack" the surface the right way: both smooth and controlled carving/addition).

Now what, imo is still lacking, and I mean, GREATLY lacking in the brushing area:

-There is still a big problem with the interpolation with steady stroke, if you go a bit too quick (and not THAT quick), you get those angles because the interpolation isn't fast enough (my guess, it could be something else). Try it with sharp preset of Artman.

-We really need, and I'm sure other will totally approve: a way to have freeze on a quick keystroke, changing tools is not an option, it takes to much time.

One solution could be to simply add the option in the shift/ctrl+shift menu.

Other than that this is really nice. I don't want to be over enthusiastic as I've been in the past and had regret a few days/hours later after discovering nasty bugs, but with those last two problem solved I can finaly say it's good enough.

One last remark though: buildup option has been there forever, but it was for voxel mode in voxel menu> grow on pen motion. That option is still there and usefull for voxel, but it also shows in surface mode which is confusing, maybe for the sake of cohesiveness this option should be removed and buildup option added for voxel brushes too ?

In any case: Good work both of you, this is really a nice change (and you definitely should continue this collaboration).

post-1144-0-72695400-1373887528_thumb.jp

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Thanx Beat! Glad you like the changes :)

It can only get better now....I highly doubt it will get worse.

(the alpha with his clay serie seems to have been made exclusively to "attack" the surface the right way: both smooth and controlled carving/addition).

its one of 3Dcoat default alphas,not mine....the only one i made is the sharp one (was very difficult to fit sharpness with spacing value to get nice sharpness) and the scifiarmor 1 one...(this one was a pain to get)

note to users:

I disabled pressure in my pinch brush preset...I like it this way its jsut crazy fast.

I thought I would loose control but I found out that with pressure I would just be pinching for longer times uselessly...

So if you guys like pressure just switch to desired e-panel mode and (rmb over preset and "update preset")

Anyway Andrew will probably add good depth slider in pinch tool at some point...

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BeatKitano, thanks for feedback, it is especially important to me!

Anyway that "war" even if was not so pleasant, pushed me to take brushing seriously, so thanks.

Question regaring this request:

 

-There is still a big problem with the interpolation with steady stroke, if you go a bit too quick (and not THAT quick), you get those angles because the interpolation isn't fast enough (my guess, it could be something else). Try it with sharp preset of Artman.

Please show screenshot.

I continue working over brushing to bring as close as possible to perfect state. What planned

- dot instead cross for brushing cursor

- degree slider for move

- depth slider for pinch

- possibility to enter custom hint for preset

- already done a bit more smart direction stabilisation to avoid half-rotated patterns when moving pen quickly.

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(previous posts were erased by the maintenance, I'm not sure we're supposed to talk about it now ^^)

 

Trying to do a spiral with a one million poly sphere with sci fi armor brush:

 

Here is with normal speed (you can the the curve is somewhat lacking in interpolation):

post-1144-0-47148600-1373898986_thumb.jp

 

Here with somewhat quicker stroke:

post-1144-0-17789300-1373899030_thumb.jp

 

This may look like nitpicking but if I were to do quick curvy slashes (for cloth pattern for instance) with steady stroke on to avoid "wiggly hand" it would be a problem.

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(previous posts were erased by the maintenance, I'm not sure we're supposed to talk about it now ^^)

 

Trying to do a spiral with a one million poly sphere with sci fi armor brush:

 

Here is with normal speed (you can the the curve is somewhat lacking in interpolation):

attachicon.gifsphere1m.jpg

 

Here with somewhat quicker stroke:

attachicon.gifsphere1m2.jpg

 

This may look like nitpicking but if I were to do quick curvy slashes (for cloth pattern for instance) with steady stroke on to avoid "wiggly hand" it would be a problem.

Please show with Sharp brush.I experience issue but my computer is shit...I wanna see how it goes on your side.

 

Scifi brush are made to do slow precise curves and make doing straight lines better...what is shown in picture is correct behavior.

This preset must not be too curvy.

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I would love to artman, but I changed most of your brushes (I choose sci fi armor because it's one I didn't touch). I need to save current presets and reinstall the package for vanilla experience.

ok,no hurry. :)  Tell me when you are ready I have special benchmark file I want you to test sharp brush with to see bottleneck.

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Yes, I noticed my posts disappeared too, maybe some failure on server.

Regarding friize modifier - how is better ? Use Freeze as one of SHIFT or CTRL SHIFT modifiers? Or there is better idea?

 

On both menus would be perfect (I like shift=smooth but options are nice, everyone can select what's working :) ).

 

@Artman: 

 

I need to change sharp (droplet mode loosing effect on stroke handing, I chose size=pressure mode).

It's better (better curve interpolation), but you can still see the effects:

 

Normal stroke: 

post-1144-0-98282200-1373899851_thumb.jp

 

Higher speed (not excessive):

post-1144-0-56470600-1373899915_thumb.jp

 

Excessive speed I start losing the stroke, a bit like with droplet (but it's really to show, I don't think I'll brush that fast):

post-1144-0-93928500-1373899933_thumb.jp

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Artman's presets are possible because Andrew gave us the tools to create our own brushes... That was a long standing artist request Andrew fulfilled sometime ago. What I always failed to understand was if a experienced user did not like the default brushes, you had the ability to create your own. I did two basic videos on creating presets and brush use.

 

I was pleasantly surprised to find that Artman's presets closely resembled my preset brushes. It took a little messing around with settings, alphas etc to understand the brush engine when I created my presets but a normal user of 3DCoat would not have any great problems creating their own personal brushes.

 

Now with the new sampling radius, buildup and other fine tuning Andrew is doing plus Artman's input we are getting even finer control over our brushing experience. Oh, almost forgot and Beat nipping at our heels to have better a better brush engine... :D

 

I am glad Artman's presets are included by default and will greatly enchance the brushing for the new user and pro alike.

 

Everyone does not have the time to make their own brushes but If you do have time do not limit yourself with just Artman's presets, explore, create or fine tune your own brushes to meet your style of sculpting.

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@Artman: 

 

I need to change sharp (droplet mode loosing effect on stroke handing, I chose size=pressure mode).

It's better (better curve interpolation), but you can still see the effects:

Ok,I will change it to size=pressure mode ...for truly occult reasons I had the impression it felt better in droplet mode.

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I agree digman but before last update (and I'm sure you'll understand what I mean after you get your hands on the new build) it was nearly impossible to get some brush behaviours in 3dcoat. Andrew fixed the tilt nightmare which existed when brushing over angles.

 

Btw Andrew, by fixing that and adding buildup you created a workaround about the "overlapping meshes" which stopped the mesh below to be raised, vey much appreciated when working with multiple layers of meshes. Before that the only way to make it work was to hide the top mesh. Now I can blindly raise the surface and still see the results without having to use ghost mode.

 

@Artman: No no, don't change it, it's MY experience, if you feel it's better that way let it be. I can change it myself, not an issue. I don't want to be the guy that made you change your presets. If no one else complained let it be.

The issue as I see it is that droplet give a certain "length" of pressure (like a loaded/dry brush if you wish), if you start your stroke and apply somewhat high pressure on your pen, it will end the brush quickly, and you'll brush for nothing. But if you start with little pressure it works. It's all about the way you make your stroke (the intent).

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@Artman: No no, don't change it, it's MY experience, if you feel it's better that way let it be. I can change it myself, not an issue. I don't want to be the guy that made you change your presets. If no one else complained let it be.

No,I'll  change it....size=pressure mode is better anyway,its closer to zb/mb :) ....anyway,the difference was very subtle on my side and I think the fact I foundt it felt better in droplet mode is purely in my head.

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LOL, Beat, you got that right about getting the linux build. I been checking every few minutes for it... :rofl:

Yes, the tilting of some brushes and the cross angles strokes of the crease brush at a large radius was a problem. I had some workarounds but that is what they were, workarounds.

They seem to be fixed now according to the windows users in the latest update... 

 

Linux version I need, I want...  :o

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I agree digman but before last update (and I'm sure you'll understand what I mean after you get your hands on the new build) it was nearly impossible to get some brush

The issue as I see it is that droplet give a certain "length" of pressure (like a loaded/dry brush if you wish), if you start your stroke and apply somewhat high pressure on your pen, it will end the brush quickly, and you'll brush for nothing. But if you start with little pressure it works. It's all about the way you make your stroke (the intent).

hmmm,interesting...I dont have this issue.Brush does not "end".

What is your intuos? I will try to note down differences between user experiences using different tablets and wacom settings.

What is your soft/hard wacom setthing? try default setting and report if possible.

Anyway,i changed it back d/r=pressure ...its safer I think.

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Btw, check smoother tool with "Preserve surface" = ON or OFF. It may be helpful for hardsurface to get flat of ideally smoothed surfaces.

Yeah please guys try this new tool...its AMAZING...and very predictable.I will include it as a preset  in the pack because it is a very handy tool to use frequently in workflow,real time saver.

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Indeed, I was so happy to finaly find predictable brush work I didn't check it.

Very nice clean up tool. It completely remove the little surface noise you can get with the spiraling edge flow on large surfaces. And quite effective to establish precise planes quickly for hard surface work. Nice.

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Just 2 questions:

- what is Enter key doing in surface mode - except making mesh triangulation ugly? (I tried to confirm smoother with Enter)

- is there way to hide frozen area ? ctrl+f wont work

Thx.

Edited by JoseConseco
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Just 2 questions:

- what is Enter key doing in surface mode - except making mesh triangulation ugly? (I tried to confirm smoother with Enter)

- is there way to hide frozen area ? (like ctrl+H in zbrush).

Thx.

Enter convert to voxels....

It can be useful sometimes when blloking early rough form but its not very useful since now we havve RemoveStrtching.

 

You cannot hide frozen area but there is a hide tool. :)

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Ah ok, about Enter - in VoxTree layer icon didn't switched from 'S" to 'V" so that confused me. 

Btw could you add something like rapid brush with LC into your presets? It would be great!

my clay and claybuild presets are rapid2+Removestretching ...Removestrtching is LC...but even better imo,its jfaster and produce the nicest subdivision vs brush radius.

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my clay and claybuild presets are rapid2+Removestretching ...Removestrtching is LC...but even better imo,its jfaster and produce the nicest subdivision vs brush radius.

I agree, before I used your brushes I would never use a LC brush (maybe with the exception of crease clay) because of that. The difference between liveclay and removestretching enabled surface brushes is so slim I wonder why we still make a distinction.

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