V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)

[manticor]

Who is being aggressive? You are the one saying this request isn't worth his time, yet you don't even have a clue as to what you're talking about (we can do this in Surface mode already...then we can do this in Blender... huh?). So, if the Flux capacitor is initiated by a dielectrocrometer to induce gastrointestical turbulence, then the vortex confluence will............make my request invalid, eh?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCUreAgkK-I

export mesh to be shelled from retopo room

Import into voxel room

- merge without voxelisation

-merge as skin

(set skin settings as required based on scale of model)

mesh is now shell

Export layer -> import into topo room replacing original mesh.

 

I agree that it would be a nice option to have in the topo room but I personally dont use make shell that often.

 

This could probably be done with Angel script .Would be nice if Andrew or someone could make some beginner tutorials on this.

[artman]

export mesh to be shelled from retopo room

Import into voxel room

- merge without voxelisation

-merge as skin

(set skin settings as required based on scale of model)

mesh is now shell

Export layer -> import into topo room replacing original mesh.

Good workaround !!

[AbnRanger]

Good workaround !!

A triangulated mesh in the Retopo Room is a good workaround?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRIsbjasqe4&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLFC4A8709F8CFA8F3

[manticor]

Good point .Well spotted

 

But my models dont end their journey in 3DCoat.Softimage ,Max ,Modo or Blender all have a quadrangulate function.

A triangulated mesh wont affect baking either.

 

I was just illustrating a point

 

My original point was this.

 

Yes I totally agree that a shell option ,shift extrude and other things for the retopo room would be nice additions and keeps us from having to flick back and forth between applications.Im not disputing that point .

 

My point is that Andrew should concern himself with more important things ,the autopo improvements being one of these.If he manages to match or better pixologics solution ,which I definately think he will then we as users wont need to even bother too much with a lot of tedious mindnummingly boring retopo work and spend more time on creating art fast.

The only thing that really stands in the way of this is the autopo handling hard corners which neither pixologics system or 3DCoats handle that well .

An example test of this is to create a vox box and scale it out and duplicate it several times to make a fence structure.Now run autopo and do the same in zbrush with zremesher.Neither system handles the right angles properly.If andrew can solve this problem and match what zremesher does with organics then Andrews system will be by far the best.The closest way I get to getting a better mesh at the moment is to decimate to 95% and then optimise the rest in Softimage ( as it is the most versatile optimiser ,it has a lot of options to tweak).I clean up the stray vertices after its done.But this doesn't work well for some meshes but as these are non deforming models and they will have a normal map to iron out the kinks in the geometry shading its good enough for me as a games artist.

Edited July 28, 2013 by manticor

[digman]

Yep, Andrew came up for air, now he is submerged again, I bet working hard on the auto-retopo routines... 

 

I will wear my patience's hat for Linux as the new routines most likely will get roll into a new beta which will make us Linux folks 2 beta versions behind...   

[PolyHertz]

Just tried drag-dopping an abr file onto 3DC and then resizing the window, which results in this happening (lines through the viewport):

[AbnRanger]

Anyone else think the top portion of the UI is way too cluttered, and needs to be cleaned up? If so, perhaps the best option would be to move all the toolbar and SHIFT key options to the TOOL OPTIONS PANEL, in their own dedicated location. Someone else has mentioned this in the past, and I agree. This way, not only does it clean up the top portion of the UI (the SHIFT action options butted right up against the Menu Bar and looks one long run-on sentence), but it moves all the Tool related options/parameters to one central location. Here is a mockup (before and after).

[Gravin]

Anyone else think the top portion of the UI is way too cluttered, and needs to be cleaned up? If so, perhaps the best option would be to move all the toolbar and SHIFT key options to the TOOL OPTIONS PANEL, in their own dedicated location. Someone else has mentioned this in the past, and I agree. This way, not only does it clean up the top portion of the UI (the SHIFT action options butted right up against the Menu Bar and looks one long run-on sentence), but it moves all the Tool related options/parameters to one central location. Here is a mockup (before and after).

 

I kind of like having the setting available in the top toolbar. It's much easier to change things on the fly this way. Maybe an option to show and hide the tool options and panels dynamically with a key press. Like the buttons in silo can be toggled off and on with the space bar.

[AbnRanger]

I kind of like having the setting available in the top toolbar. It's much easier to change things on the fly this way. Maybe an option to show and hide the tool options and panels dynamically with a key press. Like the buttons in silo can be toggled off and on with the space bar.

I don't know about that. Most folks are not used to adjusting tool parameters at the top of the UI, but in a panel....such as the Command panel in 3ds Max, Attributes Panel in Maya, etc. It's actually easier and more intuitive to place the toolbar and SHIFT key options along with all the other Tool Options. Everything is all in one location, instead of having to make adjustments in different areas of the UI.

[BeatKitano]

Old mockup:

 

[SilverCity]

I don't know about that. Most folks are not used to adjusting tool parameters at the top of the UI, but in a panel....such as the Command panel in 3ds Max, Attributes Panel in Maya, etc. It's actually easier and more intuitive to place the toolbar and SHIFT key options along with all the other Tool Options. Everything is all in one location, instead of having to make adjustments in different areas of the UI.

Agreed. This is also how Cinema 4D is configured. Having all tool options/attributes in the same location is much more efficient. Your eye and hand have less travel distance to make adjustments. 

Another problem with the current UI is that even though many tools have the same attributes, they are arranged and spaced slightly differently depending on which tool is selected. If you're going to locate them at top, at least keep them arranged in a consistent way.

[Carlosan]

the best option would be to move all the toolbar and SHIFT key options to the TOOL OPTIONS PANEL

 

+200000000000

[PolyHertz]

Those tool options look so nice and organized compared to what 3DC has right now, mostly thanks to the dividers. The current UI could look so much nicer with just a few changes here and there.

[AbnRanger]

Agreed. This is also how Cinema 4D is configured. Having all tool options/attributes in the same location is much more efficient. Your eye and hand have less travel distance to make adjustments. 

Another problem with the current UI is that even though many tools have the same attributes, they are arranged and spaced slightly differently depending on which tool is selected. If you're going to locate them at top, at least keep them arranged in a consistent way.

Yeah...after doing that mockup, it's hard to go back to seeing the clutter stuck at the top of the UI. Like cleaning up your room, going to kitchen to grab something to drink and upon returning, it's all messy again.

[polyxo]

@ moving all Pen Tip Options (Size, Falloff etc.) into the Tool Options Panel:

I would not mind if one could optionally hide them - aready now one can use the quick panel instead of the row of  controls at the top of the Screen.

However: While I rarely use these sliders to dial in values I personally want to see a permanently visible readout for the basic pen parameters - and for such the current location works best imo.

Relocating these settings forced users who wished to have the same readout option to show a large and complex editor window at all time. On my smaller Cintiq I often work with no editors

showing - in this case having basic pencontrols in in the Tool Options would be a  clear disadvantage.

Edited July 29, 2013 by polyxo

[BeatKitano]

@ moving all Pen Tip Options (Size, Falloff etc.) into the Tool Options Panel:

I would not mind if one could optionally hide them - aready now one can use the quick panel instead of the row of controls at the top of the Screen.

However: While I rarely use these sliders to dial in values I personally want to see a permanently visible readout for the basic pen parameters - and for such the current location works best imo.

Relocating these settings forced users who wished to have the same readout option to show a large and complex editor window at all time. On my smaller Cintiq I often work with no editors

showing - in this case having basic pencontrols in in the Tool Options would be a clear disadvantage.

 

That's why those options where left in the topbar too and the hide option added: you're not FORCED to have the tool options panel open at all time for general operations (depth/radius/smooth etc).

This also apply to section of said panel and subsections:

 

 

Choices, always

[mercy]

I have the feeling Andrew intends to evolve the Auto-retopo algorithm set so it might compete very strongly against Zbrush and raise the bar to a new level never seen before that Zbrush ZRemesher won't reach for a long time.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mercy

[alvordr]

Anyone else think the top portion of the UI is way too cluttered, and needs to be cleaned up? If so, perhaps the best option would be to move all the toolbar and SHIFT key options to the TOOL OPTIONS PANEL, in their own dedicated location. Someone else has mentioned this in the past, and I agree. This way, not only does it clean up the top portion of the UI (the SHIFT action options butted right up against the Menu Bar and looks one long run-on sentence), but it moves all the Tool related options/parameters to one central location. Here is a mockup (before and after).

I honestly don't mind the top menu area at all, but I could go either way on that.  If I had the choice, I wouldn't likely change it for myself.

[AbnRanger]

I honestly don't mind the top menu area at all, but I could go either way on that.  If I had the choice, I wouldn't likely change it for myself.

At the very minimum, I think the SHIFT key menus should be moved. They butt right up against the Menu bar and thus look like one big run-on sentence. Looks very cluttered up there.

[alvordr]

I hear ya.  I don't use those options much at all, anyway, so it's not for me.  The way I see it, if people had the option to drag those to whatever palette they wanted, I think it would help all here.

[AbnRanger]

I hear ya.  I don't use those options much at all, anyway, so it's not for me.  The way I see it, if people had the option to drag those to whatever palette they wanted, I think it would help all here.

Yeah...maybe a checkbox option in the Preference dialog, but you can never go wrong with making the UI cleaner.

[alvordr]

If it's 100% customizable, then you could make it as you like.

[Gravin]

If it's 100% customizable, then you could make it as you like.

agreed

[alvordr]

As it stands, it appears that if you can pull the tool palette down somewhere else, then a simple check box in the preferences to turn off the bar at the top would solve the issue.  Granted, I'm almost certain it isn't a simple thing behind the scenes to change.

[BeatKitano]

Probably not as it would require rewriting the drag&drop handling for every interface items.

Rewriting every interface item name to be unique, and getting them ALL.

Rewriting quite a lot of the shortcut saving/loading with the new ui item names.

Rewriting the save/reset/load layout, and their internal organization.

 

I'm probably forgetting a ton of other things that are linked too, but as you can see the task is pretty ginormous.

I agree though that would be the best option but seing as it was hard to get the few UI changes in v4 as it is, I think it's a safer bet to go for a simple Ui reorganization.

[Javis]

Old mockup:

 

 

 

This please.

[philnolan3d]

For several versions I've noticed that Show Symmetry Plane will not stay turned off. it's always on when I load a file, but I also notice the plane randomly pops on while I'm working.

[manticor]

I think the space bar menu could do with organising a bit better .to me it seems a bit unstructured .It would be nice if it was layed out in a radial way like the paint room ,but more like a pie menu ,or maybe have 3 pie menus ,one for create and import ( primitives ,merge ,booleans ) one for tweak and adjust ( pose ,move ) and one for brushes and maybe one for view switching ( front ,right ,perspective etc)... That way you don't have to lift your hand off the mouse to switch views.

[BeatKitano]

Just to let you know : at the beginning the space bar menu was pitched as pie menu. Andrew went for rectangular.

But when the "ui overhaul" came it retained it's rectangular appearance, that's when Ljb & I tried to give better usability with icons (which would also offer different size and a pure text mode too) and key/sub keys (a la zbrush). Unfortunately we had a hard time trying to translate the key approach and it's illogical as it is.

In short: yes we agree but we didn't succeed to get the point across.

[AbnRanger]

By the way, if anyone agrees, that you would like to see the the Toolbar and SHIFT key menus moved to the TOOL OPTIONS panel (so all tool related options are located in one, easy to find, location, and clean up the top portion of the UI), make sure to shoot Andrew an email (support@3d-coat.com). Gonna need some backup on this one   It should at least be dockable, so we can move it where we like.

 

First image is current (with toolbard and Shift Key menus at the top of the UI). The 3rd is the UI after they have been moved to the Tool Options Panel (and some thin dividers between the Room Tabs).