Jump to content
3DCoat Forums

V4.1 BETA (experimental 4.1.17D)


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Well if there's a seam you can remove the seam with Ctrl-click where you want them to be attached and unwrap again.

Yes, but the trouble is that when you unwrap again the whole UV map changes, what I want is the ability to create islands and weld them together the way I want, not the automated way by unwrapping, I want to have full control over the UV map, to create a UV map which has the seams hidden so you cannot see them due to displacement mapping. This is all possible in Softimage and Maya and all other UV editing software. Surely, it is not a big ask?

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Yes, but the trouble is that when you unwrap again the whole UV map changes, what I want is the ability to create islands and weld them together the way I want, not the automated way by unwrapping, I want to have full control over the UV map, to create a UV map which has the seams hidden so you cannot see them due to displacement mapping. This is all possible in Softimage and Maya and all other UV editing software. Surely, it is not a big ask?

T.

What about the update shells command? That will resew at any deleted seams without re-unwwrapping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Tbh, as a 3dCoat user, I think 3dCoat's workflow needs to be completely redone. From the ground up. The fact that there are so many workflows sort of implies that there isn't much confidence in any particular path and so Andrew continued to add more and more of them hoping to satisfy the various people's tastes. But instead, it just confuses me, especially when a bug shows up along the way - because you begin to wonder whether your workflow is the problem, or is there a bug, and if it is a bug, exactly at which action did the bug take place?

I think the entire functionality of 3dCoat should be reimagined, and the starting that the starting point for this rework should be Sculptris. Which, to me, just feels open and friendly to start using it. 3dCoat feels like, "Let's hope I don't push the wrong buttons this time"

I'm serious. Even for those of you who would knife me in a back alley for saying this, the workflow/UI is downright unfriendly. Start from Sculptris. Then slowly, and thoughtfully add 3dCoats features from there. Even the look needs to change. If a newbie joins and asks a bunch of questions about a weird workflow they want to try, only about 5 people on this forum would be able to tell him exactly how to do it, the rest of us would probably be pretty clueless. And we've been using this program for a long time. I just don't have the confidence that I could explain 3dCoat's workflow to ANYONE, in the same way I could explain other programs that I am familiar with. The overall concept behind the UI/workflow escapes me.

It's a lot more complex than Sculptris, and in return allows you to do a lot more. I'm not sure there is any way to simplify the workflow without losing features. Perhaps there is, but starting from scratch is probably not a practical option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

What about the update shells command? That will resew at any deleted seams without re-unwwrapping.

Yep, I have discovered that you can create a seam then Upd. Islands to cut an Island and Manipulate the Island into the right location, tweak the vertices, remove the seam and Upd. Islands to weld the Islands back together, but it seems such a round about way of doing things.

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

It's a lot more complex than Sculptris, and in return allows you to do a lot more. I'm not sure there is any way to simplify the workflow without losing features. Perhaps there is, but starting from scratch is probably not a practical option.

I am not familiar with Sculptris and I don't think Andrew has to start from scratch, just add the ability to weld and cut vertices and edges in the UV preview rather than creating and removing seams in the scene.

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

Yes, but the trouble is that when you unwrap again the whole UV map changes, what I want is the ability to create islands and weld them together the way I want, not the automated way by unwrapping, I want to have full control over the UV map, to create a UV map which has the seams hidden so you cannot see them due to displacement mapping. This is all possible in Softimage and Maya and all other UV editing software. Surely, it is not a big ask?

T.

All you have to do is deselect the edge/seam in question, like Phil mentioned, but you DO NOT need to Unwrap again. Simply click UPDATE ISLANDS. If there is some stretching or adjustment needed, all you have to do is click ABF or LSCM. It will just reflatten the island chosen, and leave the others undisturbed. To me, this is better/faster than trying to weld individual verts/edges.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Tbh, as a 3dCoat user, I think 3dCoat's workflow needs to be completely redone. From the ground up. The fact that there are so many workflows sort of implies that there isn't much confidence in any particular path and so Andrew continued to add more and more of them hoping to satisfy the various people's tastes. But instead, it just confuses me, especially when a bug shows up along the way - because you begin to wonder whether your workflow is the problem, or is there a bug, and if it is a bug, exactly at which action did the bug take place?

I think the entire functionality of 3dCoat should be reimagined, and the starting that the starting point for this rework should be Sculptris. Which, to me, just feels open and friendly to start using it. 3dCoat feels like, "Let's hope I don't push the wrong buttons this time"

I'm serious. Even for those of you who would knife me in a back alley for saying this, the workflow/UI is downright unfriendly. Start from Sculptris. Then slowly, and thoughtfully add 3dCoats features from there. Even the look needs to change. If a newbie joins and asks a bunch of questions about a weird workflow they want to try, only about 5 people on this forum would be able to tell him exactly how to do it, the rest of us would probably be pretty clueless. And we've been using this program for a long time. I just don't have the confidence that I could explain 3dCoat's workflow to ANYONE, in the same way I could explain other programs that I am familiar with. The overall concept behind the UI/workflow escapes me.

I can understand your frustration that the simplified well structured workflow Sculptris offers was only taken so far. That consideration is now down to Pixologic should they ever wish but in truth that work has continued in ZBrush albeit with far greater depths. Sculptris has the ease, feel and immediacy more akin to an Ipad App, Myself I abandoned it after intensive trials for the lack of broader production features it has whilst also recognizing it's strengths with regard sculpting responses and push button uv and paint ease. 3Doat and Zbrush take things further and both have great depth of features and thus require far more compacted real estate in the interface with 3DCoat coming out far stronger in ui structure than ZBrush but much less covered in literature , tutorials and alike.

A drive for that more simplified, less is more emphasis with regard shaping 3DCoats sculpting toolset is a valid argument that's been bouncing around a good while now but one that could easily be addressed by reordering the core toolset options particularly for beginners.

But then ask yourself which room should a beginner be dropped in first and is the beginner interested in 3DCoat for all it's depths or merely certain key functionality it does with greater ease and logic than far higher priced competitors?

Nobody would deem to attack you for your personal taste or personal response to the structure as you find it.

The truth is pertinent to this thread - the fact that 3DCOat is in a state of permanent Beta clouds time talking of these workflow scenarios although it has all been covered in threads here and by videos. The bugs you mention are are due to this open Beta structure as opposed to deep flaws in the workflow structure itself.

My advice is to avoid the Beta bugs and stick with a more known solid update and make this work for you whilst delving it's depths and freeing yourself of bug frustrations that cloud creativity and flow.

Sometimes/ often with 3D there's a lack of naming logic with regard artistic path concepts - let down often by a raft of technical terminology pertaining to that specific application and sometimes there's just so many words. You basically have to learn a whole new ongoing vocabulary and thus a gaseous exchange of new information displacing existing information takes place. in the mental structure of our brains and thus a state of clouded confusion can occur. Frozen by permutations like a rabbit in the headlights and disconnected from your own logic of creativity. We've all been there :-)

The key workflow permutation and possibilities within 3DCoat are much easier than one would first imagine but seem confusing when looking first as a whole.

With regard V4 I very much look forward to a strengthening of the rendering room as part of a stronger commitment to make 3DCoat a greater creative environment in it's own right outwith it being an application that plays well with all. In this sense I think it's time that 3DCoat showed greater creative self confidence of it's amazing potential to create vastly more complex rendered voxel environments and lighting interactions with true 3d camera perspectives. If 3DCoat attempts to further a polygonal workflow development over voxels it is taking on what ZBrush has already made real. Aside from playing swiss army knife and being all things to all men - it's time 3DCoat grew some bigger balls with a more revolutionized future direction. So lock down the bugs in that army knife and lets move forward with spears.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I think 3D Coat is an amazing piece of software with a huge amount of potential. I love the interface, even though I know it could always improve and be tweaked. Looking forward to V4 release.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Does it's possible to bake in UV space the displacement and normal map in 3DC?

I mean you bring a HI and LO resolution meshes with the exact same UV and then bake the displace and the normal map .

Thank you,

Pixo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

Does it's possible to bake in UV space the displacement and normal map in 3DC?

I mean you bring a HI and LO resolution meshes with the exact same UV and then bake the displace and the normal map .

Thank you,

Pixo

Yes you can using two meshes, one HI and one LO with the same exact UV sets.

Import your low UV mapped mesh using the microvertex method into the paint room.

Next under the file menu\ import \ Big Mesh, import your high polygon uv mapped mesh into the paint room.

3DCoat will compare the difference between the low and high meshes and bake a displacement map. The high polygon mesh is not loaded into the paint room but used for baking. The displacement map will be applied to the low polygon mesh in the paint room.

You can also export a tangent base normal map.

The two maps I created using the above method. The maps are based on a very rough work but just to show the process works.

I do not use the method often so if you discover any bugs, report them as you normally do at Mantis.

EDIT:

The last picture show the low polygon model ( I have view low-polygon with wireframe) selected under the view menu and the same model with the displacement map applied in the paintroom after importing using the Big Mesh function. There is a slight seam problem on one seam but that is due to the generic layout of the uv set and the retopo polygons were not created with any good edge loops as I just quickly put this together.

post-518-0-15338700-1351116010_thumb.jpe

post-518-0-35505300-1351125148_thumb.jpe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Is there any possibility of implementing a brush that emulates the 'hpolish' brush in zbrush? This is very handy for doing hard surface sculpting, and often I will block out a model in 3d coat and finish it in zbrush with this brush...still i would like to be able to get this kindof result solely in 3d coat, so I just wanted to throw that request out there,

-Josh

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Is there any possibility of implementing a brush that emulates the 'hpolish' brush in zbrush? This is very handy for doing hard surface sculpting, and often I will block out a model in 3d coat and finish it in zbrush with this brush...still i would like to be able to get this kindof result solely in 3d coat, so I just wanted to throw that request out there,

-Josh

Most of the shift function features of 3DCoat act as polishers - chisel in surface mode being one I like, also the flatten in shift mode, but the hpolish? Hmmm, - sounds like something maybe snuck away in Liveclay? That said hi rez voxels will keep their edge to transition edge quality much better and certain polish effects are best up a touch in rez - indicated at lower rez and finished to edges at a higher resolution.

A polish that maintains crisp edges/ edge integrity at medium rez - any suggestions from the Liveclay experts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Contributor

Is there any possibility of implementing a brush that emulates the 'hpolish' brush in zbrush? This is very handy for doing hard surface sculpting, and often I will block out a model in 3d coat and finish it in zbrush with this brush...still i would like to be able to get this kindof result solely in 3d coat, so I just wanted to throw that request out there,

-Josh

+1

I'll just leave this here (especially flatten brush section)...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

I been doing some testing on creating a polish type brush using the Beta 4 TSmooth with relaxation setting enabled to help keep sharp edges but relax and smooth the mesh.

The top of the skull is not finished, I just lost the energy to continue as illness overtook me. There are few other areas that need attention as well but overall I am pleased with the result. not perfect but not bad either.

By working with the TSmooth (relaxation) I can see areas that can be tweaked to make it even closer to a polish type brush.

post-518-0-15635700-1351376826_thumb.png

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Pffffff Im now at a point that the Retopo room is TOTALLY useless.. im almost done with my retopo mesh but the last few steps are just oo much for 3DCoat..

- Saving the file causes a crash

- Adding edge loop causes a crash

- Adding quad causes a crash

I think I have to reinstall 3.7 for now.. <_<

I'm under linux,when using the retopo room 3DCoat crashes randomly , i had to go back to the version 3.7.

There's no error messages.

EDIT:

Ok i got it(error message).

http://3d-coat.com:8081/mantis/view.php?id=745

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

I had posted these crashing bugs back on the 19th for the linux beta 4.00A4 version but have been waiting for Andrew to get back to post mantis bugs. 3.7.18 series did have a few but beta 4 lots more.

List of crashes or lock ups.

Lock up, Symmetry copy under the voxel menu "random"

Lock up, Auto retopoing with edge loops,(no strokes defined) "random"

Crashing when working on a retopo mesh. "random" (could be happening when switching to a different tool.)

Added one more

Crashing when switching back to surface mode from the paint room after doing some vertex painting. "random"

Added one more

Crashing when merging from the retopo room to the paint room.(random)

EDIT. Ok I added the general crashing report at Mantis. 0000746

http://3d-coat.com/m...view.php?id=746

I will be adding a few more bug reports in the coming days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I have had to move to ZBrush to get my jobs done because I cannot rely on 3DCoat any more, I think the turning point was when I pressed the save button and my scene file was destroyed as the program crashed and I lost many hours of work, what is amazing is that I am running ZBrush in Linux under wine and its very stable and Reliable, this is what Andrew has to do, drop all the development and make 3DCoat rock solid, stable and reliable because nobody wants to loose their work or waist their time. 3DCoat has such a great potential but nobody will ever take it seriously while it is in a constant state of perpetual Alpha/Beta. Once 3DCoat is made stable and reliable on all platforms then people will take notice and place trust in the program to get the job done, the last thing an artist wants is distractions whilst in the creative frame of mind, distractions kill creativity. New features should only be added then released to the general public after they have been thoroughly tested under every possible scenario that the user may use the feature in. As I go through all my various versions of 3DCoat I find the same pattern of some old bugs being fixed, but far from all, and also a swag of new features which are full of bugs which you hope will be fixed in the next version, which then repeats the cycle over again, or even worse, a feature which has been stable for quite a while suddenly becomes unstable in the latest version. I think this just has to stop if you want 3DCoat to be respected as a serious player.

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor

Good to know that Zbrush runs under wine.

Also, I and a number of users, you included have been asking once all new features are in beta 4 that a period of time be devoted to finding and squashing all bugs. We all want 3DCoat version 4 to be the most stable and polished version released yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Good to know that Zbrush runs under wine.

Also, I and a number of users, you included have been asking once all new features are in beta 4 that a period of time be devoted to finding and squashing all bugs. We all want 3DCoat version 4 to be the most stable and polished version released yet.

This is such an important concept "Stability and Reliability", how would you feel if you were writing a novel on a word processor and have been saving regularly and only making a "save as" every chapter or so, then towards the end of a chapter the program crashed and destroyed your novel and you could only go back to the previously saved novel which was minus your last chapter, you would have to try to rewrite the lost chapter, but this time you would have lost a lot of your enthusiasm and creative juices and your mind would be filled with anger and frustration which will be reflected in the chapter rewrite.

You just want to work and be creative without the thought that at any moment the application may do something unexpected and ruin your valuable work.

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...