Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 26, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi all! MeshMixer is a small free app but is interesting. maybe functions are interesting to study and provide new ideas for 3dcoat. Many of these functions already exist in 3dcoat (it seems to me), but maybe some not... http://www.meshmixer.com/index.html (sorry for my english) ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted October 26, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Mixing shapes in voxels is so easy that mixing meshes is redundant or at least something best left to that halcyon time when 3DC is a stable bug free app (IMHO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 26, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I didn't say otherwise, but it's always interesting to look at what is happening elsewhere. ....also Zbrush copied 3dcoat functions in its latest update ... sometimes there may be other interesting features in other app. ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted October 26, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 26, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 ....also Zbrush copied 3dcoat functions in its latest update ... Really? What functions exactly? The auto retopo one? Functions that work much better than in 3dcoat? Why and how better? This is a question. Latest zbrush has some other new functions. Never saw them in 3dcoat or elsewhere. Why we don't talk about them? We haven't noticed them? Are we blind or something? To notice an interesting function and make something similar, that actually works much better, based on a different algorithm, this is not a copy. Especially when this algorithm is a mystery in the open source community. The best example is the, long time now in zb, "rebuild subdivisions". A very useful function missing from blender and lot of other apps. It sounds so simple, it isn't though. So, to adopt ideas, is not a copy. To adopt ideas, is the essence of civilization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 26, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I agree with you; but we must recognize that auto retopo was done first with 3dcoat! It is true that it works better in Zbrush. Curves with objects are also achievements 3dcoat and now part of the functions of ZBrush, insert objects using the "Insert Multi Mesh" is very similar to the philosophy of the voxel ... if 3dcoat didn't innovate in these areas, Zbrush would perhaps not have these ideas, this is what I meant. I'm not trying to oppose these two apps, but I must say that Zbrush watch a lot of advanced 3dcoat, adopt them with improvements. What I meant is that it's easy to look at the neighbor to have ideas and to work on updates with a large team of developers... Some functions before the last Zbrush's update were already in 3dcoat but perhaps with a different operating, but the first advanced in these areas it is 3dcoat which is the first. this is my opinion. ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Such adoptions can be also found in blender, blender sculpt. (though Raul started his LC coding there) Maybe it's the right time for 3dcoat to add a multires sculpting room. With all the functionality is needed. We won't call it adoption though. We can't call adoption a function that is used on so many apps. Pixologic provides very precise, fine tuned tools. My problem is, these are specific tools for a specific use. Leading on predictable results, more or less. 3dcoat approach is more generic. This is better, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 27, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I agree...you're right on it.(even if this could be good) ...so I'm not sure about a room multires sculpting, but an autopo retopo room more efficient and accurate! a jewel of autopo retopo could be an effective tool. ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 3dc autopo... Why does it produce more and more ngons? I still keep an old v3 build that could do better. Ngons on a retopo cage is a complete disaster. I hope this is clear to all. Just think. Why do we need a autopo cage for? Better tris than ngons. What 3dc autopo does now, is practically unrepairable. I mean, the winner is not the one that had the idea to make a so-and-so autopo tool. Is the one that makes it functional. even on the first beta release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 agree all the development teams can have/adopt/copy ideas, and make its work but... those ideas must work with efficiency, not just to be added like a new feature from my point of view... this is one indicator of the maturity and professionalism of the software Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 this is one indicator of the maturity and professionalism of the software maturity and professionalism may be quite different approaches. IMO maturity may means a more generic approach, capable to model anything. Professionalism may means what the market wants. Quite understandable, but also something conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 language is a barrier for me, sorry what i try to said ? Maturity: The elegant way* that the program can achieve correct results, economically optimized. Professionalism: The market has needs that must be resolved within the stipulated technical standards. * efficient workflow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I agree. it's just this "market has needs". A good subject for conversation but out of the topic. A market should be a free world but what we see, these days, is quite the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member The Candy-floss Kid Posted October 28, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Talent borrows , genius steals. A quote, not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted October 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 .A market should be a free world but what we see, these days, is quite the opposite. Or to paraphrase, "no tickee, no shirtee". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 28, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 3dc autopo... Why does it produce more and more ngons? I still keep an old v3 build that could do better. Ngons on a retopo cage is a complete disaster. I hope this is clear to all. Just think. Why do we need a autopo cage for? Better tris than ngons. What 3dc autopo does now, is practically unrepairable. I mean, the winner is not the one that had the idea to make a so-and-so autopo tool. Is the one that makes it functional. even on the first beta release. I spoke to one autopo that works really well and only quads!!!! it would be a great advanced. I spoke to a substantial improvement of the autopo. Obviously this is hypothetical because I don't know if that thing is make possible, but if it were it would be extraordinary! ...of course there is the manual retopo but it takes a lot of time and sometimes we don't see the end so tedious Have a good mesh is the basis for good UV's and be able to use the object in a software rendering or animation, that's why we need an automatic good tool for building a good mesh/quad. My opinion ^^ That's what I meant michalis, sorry I'm not good in english to express my thoughts better... ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 28, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 Auto retopo is useful for two reasons. 1. To have fast exporting and a nice preview under a decent render engine. 2. As a remesher for transferring into a multi resolution sculpting environment. This second needs a nice all quads mesh, a autopo engine that follows some loop guides. 5-10 tris may be acceptable, but 100-200 ngons on a 3000 faces mesh are not. Subdividing ngons is not a good thing. Editing 200 ngons is of no use. Autoretopo is not for animations. The ZB qremesher (forcing loops) is still far away from creating a handy for rigging mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 28, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 agree with you on what you say but if you have a good tool autopo where you can manage the mesh size and uniformity of it then you could use it for animation! can you develop your idea on a multires sculpting room?... ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 28, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 can you develop your idea on a multires sculpting room?... What do you mean? I can't develop my sculpting ideas on a multires environment. But I can convert a voxel or LC or blender dyntopo, sculptris, zbrush dynamesh into a retopo subdivided multires sculpt and finish it. Then, I can bake maps of excellent quality. Only then! every other method is more or less approximated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 29, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Such adoptions can be also found in blender, blender sculpt. (though Raul started his LC coding there) Maybe it's the right time for 3dcoat to add a multires sculpting room. With all the functionality is needed. .... I wanted to understand what did you mean with this sentence. ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 29, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 @chris something like Zbrush or Blender. In the sculpting room. It's not that easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Multi-Res sculpting You can sculpt on any subdivision level to make gross shape adjustments while preserving fine detail you added earlier at a finer subdivision level. This also lets you add extremely fine detail without having to explicitly add more geometry in detailed areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chris_solo Posted October 29, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 thank you carlosa ^^ but I already know what it is because I use already in ZBrush! what I'm trying to understand this, is to have this system in 3dcoat, I think it is not possible that why I wanted to know the idea of michalis about it... This is why I rather think of a system of automatic autopo work really well! ++Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted October 29, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 Chris, what auto or manual retopo has to do with it? Except, of course, that it's the first important step. Do retopo, UVs, subdivide (under a multiresolution environment) reproject on the voxels or LC or anything original mesh. The, it is converted to a multires mesh. Do more sculpting then. The benefit of this method is the great quality of bumps-displacement maps, among other goodies. Now, if I have a multires mesh in blender for instance, I don't even need normal or displacement maps. As I can rig the low cage mesh, have it on the viewport but sending the hi detailed information on the renderer. Render engines like cycles don't have any problem on rendering millions of poly, fast. Still better for baking - exporting as I already explained. In the end, we all need a uniformly quad mesh, subdivided to as much millions as possible. If voxels, remeshers like dynamesh, LC, sculptris, dyntopo are closer to real clay, a multi res sculpting environment is closer to displacement. It's a displacer, right? So, it's easier to bake precise maps there. Easy and not approximated. But, this method is for fine details only, for finishing. Not really-really a sculpting tool, from my point of view. Anyway, there is a sculpting room in 3dc and just stays there, waiting some love from devs. When in MV mode, this should fix all the issues we're facing on this method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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