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Targeting semi-automatic weapons would be tantamount to targeting sports cars, because "people really don't need that kind of speed." Most of these weapons are just "sports car" variants of hunting rifles, so to speak (same gauge, same rate of fire). T

I would argue that there is a huge difference. Of course, cars can be deadly, but their primary purpose is to transport us from one place to another. The primary purpose of a gun is to kill. Most of us do need transportation, most of us don't need or want to kill something/someone.

I have no problem limiting magazine capacity and such, but in my opinion it's just a false perception by many that an AR 15 is a menace anymore than a hunting rifle.

Another point we agree on. Yes, limiting magazine capacity is a great start.

@polyxo, yes, I guess it has moved to a US/American topic, but since we are all human beings, affects us all.

Anyhow, I think changing the topic was my bad. Sorry. It was just a terribly sad day for all, hearing so many innocents were killed.

I've already become redundant on my feelings in these posts, so, as addictive as this thread is, I don't plan on posting any more about it. I sincerely have appreciated reading (and of course will continue) to read posts here though! I also appreciate the fact that although a lot of us disagree, no one has taken the low ground here, with name calling etc. This is a great community.

Long live 3D Coat. :)

Greg

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A short poem on violence...

Violence, a lust that thirst but knows no satisfaction

Blood fills the grave, overflowing streaming through the ages

It's bands strong throwing darkness over the earth

Opened wide it's mouth swallowing mother and child

Father can not help but only mourn sorrow tears of yesterdays joys

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I also appreciate the fact that although a lot of us disagree, no one has taken the low ground here, with name calling etc. This is a great community.

Well to be honest AbnRanger did compare all of us on the opposing side of the argument against violent video games and movies to crack heads at one point.

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This is an interesting topic and worthwhile one. I didn't find anything wrong with most of the work I saw on this thread, but having said that I acknowledged that some themes can cater to a more disturbing taste. Just as I feel artist, film, and game makers have a responsibility to considered the impact of there work on society, I also feel that censorship also leads to a Nazi state of affairs as well. I tend to draw the line at anything that depicts or implies real life violence, harm to children, or harmful handling of women.

The human form is beautiful and the nude body shown correctly can be beautiful and it also can be down right wrong depending on the venue. The human imagination that is scene in many of the sculpts we see on the internet today is wonderful.

My current retopo project that I am working on for a game character and my learning of retopology is currently in nude female state but I only show the head, ears, or nose when I seek advice on the forum. I will be making armor when the retopo is done. My point is, it would have been in poor taste to show the full nude on this forum. However if it was intended to be a statue of antiquity I would have had no problem showing all and neither does the museums and art galleries of the world. There is a time a place for most things.

I started two sculpts in Zbrush for some Game Character concepts. One is a post apocalyptic Female Hero (good guy) but could easily be taken for something intended to be offensive or evil not knowing the story and setting it is intended for. The other is mermaid torso with similar type of disposition.

I was saddened by the backlash at the 3D-Coat company for the inspiring beautiful words of there faith that are on the website. It appears many people want respect and tolerance for what ever we draw, direct, or program but can't take any type of cry for a certain morality or religious consideration Even though I tend to like to make Lora Croft or Aion type characters with that tend to be scantly clad, but covered. In Aion MMORPG the Asmodians have horns on there head but if you read the story of the game they are treated bad because they look different and in fact they are not evil at all. We can't judge the hearts of most of these artist by still pictures. I was inspired and probably in someway swayed in a good way by the words on the 3D-Coat site. I also enjoyed the short animation film they made.

In closing, to the person that started this thread, I hear you man but there has to be a balance. The things that bother me art-wise I just ignore unless it is something that depicts the unspeakable.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B4eM_rkmL2oaRkJUMk8zb0VIR2M

Happy Holidays,

Robert

New to 3D Modeling, sculpting, retopo and Video Game Development

Working on Indie Video Game in Unity 3D

Electrical Engineer

Guitar Player (Hobby)

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Well to be honest AbnRanger did compare all of us on the opposing side of the argument against violent video games and movies to crack heads at one point.

The rest of us have not stooped to that level, and for that, I appreciate it very much.

Cheers. :drinks:

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I also appreciate the fact that although a lot of us disagree, no one has taken the low ground here, with name calling etc. This is a great community.

I agree.

So, what can we do about all these terrible things?

It's not a US problem by all means. It is painted in US colors.

In my country you can't own militry guns. Crete is a beautiful island, you'll possibly find more AK47s than in the whole US. With real magazines I mean. The real thing.

They don't kill each other though.

But, in my country, we have real Nazis in our parliament.

Real criminals, by all means.

They even asked sterilization of pakistani people (considered as criminals or something)

You possibly know this movie?

Let's be careful.

We may blame VGgames, guns, or anything, but we may become the real criminals. Fear is the real evil.

BTW An art police is what I don't want to see.

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It is interesting to read here even these "gun-munition" conversations. It seems we've got another answer to the question WHY (I take into account Polyxo's reply about USA's weapon-lobby). A cult of violence is developed in order to promote sales of real guns. After all those blockbusters and 3D-games... Isn't it looks good to buy real gun just exactly like "a superhero in the film" had? The problem is that for a lot of influent people the guns are their business, and the more people adore guns and murder of aliens - the better. Most of the people playing violent games do not really want to kill someone with a gun, but folks are ready to discuss munition and riffles, even ready to buy a gun and keep it in the house. It seems we have found in the discussion a few real and very serious reasons.

btw. I wish all of you happy 2013! I wish everyone to find the truth, sincerety, reciprocity. I wish you to get the manifestation of everything what you are dreamed of, or what you've been searching for. Let your love be always mutual in your life. Let your passions find a way to be satisfied.

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Let your passions find a way to be satisfied.

This might explain all the bad things happening.

I say this: Trust your feelings. (he he).

Because passions may never find the way to be satisfied. It's in the nature of the human race. Passions give birth to other passions, and so it goes.

Hunger!!!

Have a happy new year, all of you.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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To revisit this issue, this from Scientific American Mind:

"A body of recent research shows that playing certain video games improves vision, attention, spatial reasoning and decision making."

and

"The games that have the most powerful neurological effects are the ones parents hate the most, violent first person shooters."

"Ideally, then, researchers would be able to tease out the beneficial ingredients of these games to create nonviolent versions that train brains just as effectively."

So alls well that potentially ends well.

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Interesting video, thanks Tony and Javis.

My problem with lot of video games is they are very predictable.

This doesn't happen in real life.

What about sports, martial arts (a bit) and playing chess?

A little "pain" may be also important.

Making art can also be a very multi tasking work (and painful enough LOL). Much more than a brain scientist might believe.

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Interesting video, thanks Tony and Javis.

My problem with lot of video games is they are very predictable.

This doesn't happen in real life.

What about sports, martial arts (a bit) and playing chess?

A little "pain" may be also important.

Making art can also be a very multi tasking work (and painful enough LOL). Much more than a brain scientist might believe.

Yeah but that's inherent to their creation.

Video games are based on rules, life doesn't, or we, for the most part, break them.

Video games have event programmed with the human mind, life doesn't, everything seems kind of random (to our understanding at least).

Video games event are programmed with conditions with a set of possibilities, our universe is made of infinite possibilities.

That's why they seem previsible.

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  • 2 years later...
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The CG world is pretty cheesy. It's the product of the movie and game industries and so it's oriented towards fairly immature males, guys that read comic books.

 

But who cares? The tools are awesome and the way is open to you to make whatever you want of it. 

 

Enjoy

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Mr. MaMurk:

 

I am really thankful for your very insightful post - and for your courage to voice your observations articulately.  I agree with all of your points, actually.  

 

The state of the imagination of mankind seems to be existing and operating on a global level.  Art is, after all, the expression of one's imagination and perception - sometimes of reality - sometimes of fantasy.  Some artists have used their imaginations to depict the reality of the world as they see it - some use their imagination to provide escape from that.  Some artists actually hoped to provide a form of "enlightenment" to the mind, the soul.  Others seemed to desire to use their art to show their innermost darkness, despair, anxieties, fear and torment.

 

The deepest question, in my opinion, regarding the creation of art - is whether it should serve the purpose of "enlightenment" or the purpose of degradation of the mind, the soul, the spirit.  And, what does it mean to enlighten or to degrade.

 

I also believe that since the introduction of modern media - moving pictures, radio, television and now digital interactive "entertainment" - powerful men and groups of men have sought to use this technology to influence and control the minds of the those who consume its products - with specific, intelligent and planned goals - for the kind of content they control and present to their "audiences".

 

In my own case, I was a post WWII child - who, from the earliest age was fed mostly violent media content - through the television - in the late 50's and 60's - that glorified war, the hero, the soldier - The American.  I remember, even in elementary school, being shown countless hours of anti-German propaganda - a lot of footage of Hitler's speeches - the devastation of Europe, etc.  This was totally common in most schools - even in my really pristine world of Southern California - a place where I never even heard of any actual violent crime.  Yet, my exposure to media - the television - kept me awash in images of violence and war and hatred of "our enemies".

 

The other kind of content that the television kept me immersed in was the world of the "Cowboy and Indian".  Another form of constant and unending war and graphic violence.  Much milder than what we have today - but on a daily basis I watched "the hero" - the Cowboy, relentlessly slaughter both criminals and Indians by the dozen - without even flinching - with no remorse or portrayal of responsibility for their actions.  Frontier Justice personified.

 

Among my friends, our favorite toys were war toys and cowboy and Indian toys.  I had scores of plastic "army men" - which we slaughtered by the dozen - lighting some of them on fire to simulate the action of the soldier carrying a flame thrower - which we all saw in our favorite war films.  Having no actual experience, ourselves - we learned to hate the Germans and the Japanese.

 

In hindsight, now - I can see that this was an attempt by someone to keep my generation - and those who actually fought in WWII - in a state of "enemy awareness" and fear - a perpetual state of war - much like George Orwell portrayed in his novel, "1984".  

 

"War is Peace"

 

H. G. Wells also wrote of a future in which war was perpetual and unending - and human annihilation was an inevitability.

 

The total destruction of mankind was the next genre of the media extravaganza that swept the world - starting in the U.S. - and somehow spreading globally - into the imaginations of everyone who consumed these things through this media.  Fear and anxiety in the hearts of the many seems to be another goal of the kind of content we have been fed since WWII.  Fear of total annihilation - fear of global destruction.  And, the enemy "focus" changed from the Germans and the Japanese - to the Soviets.  Eventually, the enemy focus really became irrelevant - since either "side" could annihilate every one of us - through a plan or accidental launching of a nuclear device, as portrayed in many films - most humorously in Stanley Kubrik's film - "Doctor Strangelove".

 

Ultimately - people will be screaming for another leader to save us from all these evils that surround us - not just on a national level - since the enemy can be anyone, and come from any place - even outer space.

 

There is much truth in the saying, "You Are What You Eat".  Watching and playing and imagining are all forms of psychological "eating" - immersion - through repetition and reinforcement.  People are definitely sheep - doing what others do - embracing what the many embrace - following those who have proven themselves most popular - in all forms of living and culture and politics - and art.

 

What we are seeing that has completely flooded the CG airwaves is a result of constant exposure, reinforcement and immersion - a result of the efforts of those who distribute and produce the stories, the films and the games. It's not accidental, in my opinion.  The patterns are clearly observable, recognizable and have all of the earmarks of intelligent, human design.  A strategy that has worked for almost 100 years, now - is in full swing.

 

If you control the imagination - you control the man.

 

Taken a step further - with the total flooding of the video game marketplace with accurate battlefield simulations - and completely real weapons usage and practice - leading the "gamer" to attain to expert levels of wartime skill  .  .  .   the perpetrators of this phenomenon have managed to kill 2 birds with one stone:  1)  Desensitize the "player" to the actual horrors of battle.  2)  Train, in advance, the largest standing army - (who have a lust for blood and violence) - giving these future soldiers many of the most crucial skills and much of the training they will need for use on the actual battlefield - without spending one thin dime.  (These "soldiers" and their enabling parents willingly pay for all these things in advance).

 

In many cases, "the enemy" is not well defined in the "shooter" game.  These up and coming "soldiers" have been trained to kill at will - kill randomly, even.  They have saved, whatever future enlisting military agencies, many billions of dollars in enlistment training.  Where do you think the many skilled Drone operators which are the face of war, tomorrow, have obtained these simulation skills? 

 

What we now see in art - CG art - is simply the product of an intelligent indoctrination plan - taking the guise of entertainment - which has subverted the minds of those who so indulge themselves.  It's not involuntary - it is an act of the will of the participant.  The scope of what we see, regarding the kinds of content found in this scenario, is a definite indication of how many "volunteers" the world actually contains.

 

 

Greg Smith

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A dark vision, Greg. The most murderous parts like Honduras or inner city slums, are not populated by gamers and I'm sure that, in your self so immersed in popular culture, you harbor no murderous impulses. Alienation, nihilism  and despair are the roots of this noxious weed.

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Tony:

 

To say that modern media is THE only source for the worst impulses in mankind would be an error.  To say that the manipulation and dominance of certain kinds of modern media are intended to produce a predictable result among the masses of media driven populations would be an accurate analysis.  Interactive media (games) is only one form - and becoming a more persistent and effective form for the manipulation and influencing of target Western audiences - trickling down to produce the same effects in less influential national communities.

 

I think you may underestimate the popularity and presence of all forms of violent and "war-driven" media - including games - among the poor in the inner cities throughout the world - and even in the poorest of 3rd world countries.  Scores of villagers in the remotest parts of South America can be seen huddled together in primitive collective shelters  .    .    .   watching modern action films from the U.S. - on DVD, of course.

 

I read an article a few years ago - that chronicled life in the economically collapsed Argentina (depression   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998–2002_Argentine_great_depression) - especially in the inner cities - where food and clothing were in very scarce supply - that video games were one of the hottest black market items to be had.

 

You also assume too much - stating that I am "so immersed in popular culture" - and then go on to say what I harbor and do not harbor within myself.  Comments like these seem poisoned with the seeds of provocation.

 

 

Greg Smith

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You also assume too much - stating that I am "so immersed in popular culture" - and then go on to say what I harbor and do not harbor within myself.  Comments like these seem poisoned with the seeds of provocation.

 

 

Greg Smith

 

I did not intend to provoke you, of course, but only to argue that the pursuit of sales rather than manipulation by sinister elements is a better explanation for the preponderance of violent media. To suggest that you do not "harbor murderous impulses" was perhaps an unwarranted and unwelcome assertion but it was made in the spirit of good fellowship usual in this forum. Please accept my apologies.

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Sales and the making of profit by those who produce such things - is, of course, one of the motives of such men.  Rarely is there a sole purpose and goal of any large undertaking - requiring the participation and cooperation of so many people.  Those who are educated regarding the goals co-operate knowingly - and those who are not, co-operate for profit of some kind.  And, money is the fuel of all earthly power.

 

The cultivation of cultural "tastes" and tendencies is often the kind of farming these men of power love to indulge in and profit from.

 

Those who are talented and gifted enough to produce the actual elements of content are usually unconcerned with the motives of their masters.  And so, they work ever harder to produce what is asked of them - some, for very little profit at all.

 

Your apology is gratefully accepted.

 

 

Greg Smith

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