Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 26, 2012 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 I have had a lot suspicious problems that only started in the past few weeks or months, in Windows 7. I already had problems with it not recognizing my external USB 3 Hard Drive on boot up, but it seems that bringing the system out of Sleep or Hibernation is now very problematic. It also suddenly takes 10-15 minutes to do a simple shutdown. Seeing that I have routinely installed Windows updates, I have to wonder just how some of these issues came about. Can't help but wonder if Microsoft hasn't artificially introduced these types of aggravating problems, in order to compel the average person to pay for their Windows 8 upgrade. I just find it incredibly coincidental that these kind of aggravating problems would suddenly appear shortly before or after a new OS release from Microsoft. Anyone else notice similar problems? If so, have you upgraded to Windows 8? Any noticeable improvement over 7? I'm not concerned with widgets and new gadgets they may introduce. Just overall performance and stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Greg Posted December 26, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Hi Don, I'm on Windows 7 64 bit and haven't had any of those problems (knock wood). I wonder if you've installed some other program or driver along the way that's causing problems? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 26, 2012 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted December 26, 2012 Hi Don, I'm on Windows 7 64 bit and haven't had any of those problems (knock wood). I wonder if you've installed some other program or driver along the way that's causing problems? Greg I may uninstall the Firewall software....which by the way, is because Windows (7) Firewall hasn't been working for some time now. I scanned the whole system for viruses repeatedly and nothing comes up. I would try to re-install Windows, but I don't want the hassle of having to re-install all my programs. That would take nearly a full day to do (when you consider having to hunt down registration/license info and such). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member bisenberger Posted December 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 No problems with Windows 7. I built a new machine with Window 8. It is like windows 7 with some some iphone/ipad/tablet stuff thrown in. It looks like they are trying to cover two different scenarios with one OS. I personalty don't like the tablet stuff thrown in with my desktop workstation setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 27, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 For 30 bucks it's silly not to take a license before the 31th january... even if you're not installing the OS right now... that's all I'll say because it will spawn another debate about win 8 which clearly is brought by people who never touched the OS (or didn't use it for at least a few weeks to have a REAL opinion about it)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2012 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 For 30 bucks it's silly not to take a license before the 31th january... even if you're not installing the OS right now... that's all I'll say because it will spawn another debate about win 8 which clearly is brought by people who never touched the OS (or didn't use it for at least a few weeks to have a REAL opinion about it)... I didn't know it was only 30 buckaroos to upgrade. May have to, if that's the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member chingchong Posted December 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 with a clean system backup (image), you could have avoided reinstalling all programs ....imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 27, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 with a clean system backup (image), you could have avoided reinstalling all programs ....imo quoted for agreement, tools for that are integrated into windows since vista, do it once, burn a dvd or put it on a nas and complete peace of mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member bisenberger Posted December 27, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 If you are upgrading to Windows 8 be careful. I bought the cheap upgrade and installed on a Vista Ultimate 64 machine. Even though I chose upgrade it did a fresh Windows 8 install and moved my programs that were installed under Vista into a backup folder. All the programs had to be reinstalled. Never could get my Adobe Web Standard CS3 to reinstall (a problem with the Pro version of flash). I've had Windows 8 for a couple months. I don't use any of the interface designed for tablets and have found ways to mostly bypass it (Alt F4 brings up a shutdown dialog when using the desktop). The biggest change to the desktop is the lack of the Start button that gives you access to all the links created when you install a program. The program links are created on the tablet menu. Some of the links that are created when installing on previous versions of Windows are not created on the tablet inteface (like help file links). The only benefit over Windows 7 I'm aware of is built in support for USB 3. Oh yea, there are some weird things with networking. One of the problems I have is trouble connecting to drives on a remote computer with wireless setup. My Windows 7 machine connects without a hitch. I would put the Windows 8 release on par with the Windows Vista release. Both Windows XP and Windows 7 were solid no frills releases that I still like to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member welchrs64 Posted December 28, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I am contemplating trying 8 and getting the upgrade. I love 7 and hope that 8 is as good and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member welchrs64 Posted December 28, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I am contemplating trying 8 and getting the upgrade. I love 7 and hope that 8 is as good and better. I just read the stuff about it being like Vista was above in this thread)-: Maybe I will wait a while(-: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 If you are upgrading to Windows 8 be careful. I bought the cheap upgrade and installed on a Vista Ultimate 64 machine. Even though I chose upgrade it did a fresh Windows 8 install and moved my programs that were installed under Vista into a backup folder. All the programs had to be reinstalled. Never could get my Adobe Web Standard CS3 to reinstall (a problem with the Pro version of flash). Next time maybe you should try running the update advisor on your current install BEFORE installing a new one, this is specifically designed to give you what's going to be moved over or not (and sometimes with the reasons !)... I've had Windows 8 for a couple months. I don't use any of the interface designed for tablets and have found ways to mostly bypass it (Alt F4 brings up a shutdown dialog when using the desktop). That's the only thing I can agree with you even though I learned to love it and now I actually like it better than the old menu (that's why I said most of the time people not liking the update didn't use it more than a week). The biggest change to the desktop is the lack of the Start button that gives you access to all the links created when you install a program. The program links are created on the tablet menu. Some of the links that are created when installing on previous versions of Windows are not created on the tablet inteface (like help file links). There's two (maybe more) programs to remediate about that: start8 (stardock 5$) or classicshell (free). And franly learn to use hotkeys with this release it so much faster than the hot corner thingy (even though it's not that bad). The only benefit over Windows 7 I'm aware of is built in support for USB 3. What about explorer band ? Dockable rt apps for constant viewing ? Multi taskbar for multiscreen ? 8 Sec boot time ? And the MANY more little thing I can't think about right now which are really cool and are actually added on top of an optimised win 7 build ? No seriously the only you can bitch about in 8 is the touch ui and for now you can avoid it with proper tools (but you'd be wise to try a few apps before that because some are actually nice, not gadgets)... I would put the Windows 8 release on par with the Windows Vista release. That would be true if this release was really buggy so far it's win 7+touch ui for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted December 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 AbnRanger, you might want to take a closer look on Event Manager entries. Especially those system-related. It's very likely that they will tell you what processes are delaying the shut down. For example, I had this problem once and it turned out that CleanerValidator.exe process, a part of Comodo System Utilities, was doing it. Simply killing this process before shut down or preventing it from starting up in the first place, fixed the issue. About the external drive problems - it's hard to say. It can be anything, from an overused USB port, USB cable, through old drive to software problems. If you have decided that you really need to upgrade to Windows 8, I think you'd better wait until things with drivers and application compatibility get sorted out. I've read many complaints about some hardware not working yet with W8. Also, the last I checked on CGTalk, there were some problems with some Autodesk applications not running at all as well. For 30 bucks it's silly not to take a license before the 31th january Consider me silly then as I bought a fresh new OEM license of Windows 7 for my new unit two weeks ago. And nothing will make me switch or upgrade to a system that resembles a Nokia phone. Speaking of the interface, many usability experts (like Raluca Budiu or Jakob Nielsen) say W8 hinders productivity. It might be a very good system for social networking (bleh!), information sharing and Internet browsing, but I'm not sure if it's the best choice for a workstation. If Microsoft allowed people to choose during installation whether to install a mobile version of Windows 8 (with ModernUI) or a workstation one (with Start menu), it would be perfect. But from some reasons, known only to them, they did not provide this option. 8 Sec boot time ? I can boot Windows 7 Pro in 12 seconds from a SSD, just enough time to make myself comfortable in a chair. Many companies use network booting that starts all computers just before working hours begin, so this makes booting time insignificant in large business environments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 First, 2 things if you're talking about using win 8 as a workstation ONLY then this debate is nonsense since there's been no fundamental changes except a general optimisation of the system. Which MAY create bugs that's for sure. Now that said: If you have decided that you really need to upgrade to Windows 8, I think you'd better wait until things with drivers and application compatibility get sorted out. I've read many complaints about some hardware not working yet with W8. Also, the last I checked on CGTalk, there were some problems with some Autodesk applications not running at all as well. As PERSONAL COMPUTER, the only compatibility issues I have encountered with win 8 is with some games which for some reason refuse to work, and they all have the kind of issue on both win 7 and win 8 so I can't say win 8 is responsible. Most of the time games with games for windows live are the buggy kind... and I think it's simply a compatibility issue between gfwl for 7 and the new version for win8. NO SOFTWARE I had compatibility issues with. NONE. All the autodesk apps I use work (3ds 2013/maya 2013/mudbox 2012-13) and no other 2d/3d/audio content app have an issue. Consider me silly then as I bought a fresh new OEM license of Windows 7 for my new unit two weeks ago. No I won't, I completely understand people reacting strongly against change even if sometimes I've a hard time understand the reasons (but for this one I won't say you're wrong it's not perfect by any means to convince people with decenial use of windows). But I still think that if you use it for a few weeks you'll see what microsoft doesn't brag about: a lot of tiny changes that are very welcome. EXACTLY like win 7 was when people were still saying xp was the best OS ever... tell me you can still use alt-tab without clicking now And nothing will make me switch or upgrade to a system that resembles a Nokia phone. Here we go, that's the heart of this discussion: did you use it EXTENSIVELY or did you go to wallmart or whatever and use it for 30 minutes before deciding it's bad ? It's a real question. Speaking of the interface, many usability experts (like Raluca Budiu or Jakob Nielsen) say W8 hinders productivity. It might be a very good system for social networking (bleh!), information sharing and Internet browsing, but I'm not sure if it's the best choice for a workstation. I could agree, if you're stupid enough to use the beautiful nicely animated apps instead of the efficiency proven DESKTOP apps... good thing you still have the choice, maybe I'll be right behind those guys if I don't get those apps in the future, but for now NOONE force you to use those. It's exactly like the vista gadgets, you can use them because it's usefull and easy to grasp, but it's limited and you can ignore them altogether if you want. If Microsoft allowed people to choose during installation whether to install a mobile version of Windows 8 (with ModernUI) or a workstation one (with Start menu), it would be perfect. But from some reasons, known only to them, they did not provide this option. Agreed, but then again if you look up in my latest post you'll see you have the choice STILL. The touch ui of win 8 is essentialy 2 component: the missing start menu and the RT apps. The RT apps it's up to you to use them or not. For the start menu you can get it back. I really don't understand what the fuss is about, I would have prefered to have the choice between full rt or full desktop like everyone else but those choice never stopped any third party developper to re-add back a functionality into windows... we always did that... I can boot Windows 7 Pro in 12 seconds from a SSD, just enough time to make myself comfortable in a chair. Many companies use network booting that starts all computers just before working hours begin, so this makes booting time insignificant in large business environments. Personal Computer Of course Boot time doesn't matter in corporate world @AbnRanger Check this thread (don't mind the guy with no argument talking trash though, even if it's the dev of xnormal ) Others comments are pretty much it. Some say it's not worth it, some say it's nice. Overall taking the 30$ upgrade is a safe bet imho. I reserve the right not be so kind when the full price is up. At 30$ it's cool, when it will be 170$ I'm not sure. Also it's the right time to finally be clean, I know a lot of people are still clinging at pirated versions of windows, it's the moment to take a legit license. When uefi+TPM+Tenso chips are integrated in all motherboards you'll be forced the full price... Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted December 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I never had a problem with migrating from Windows XP to Windows 7. I adapted very quickly and almost immediately found it to be far superior in pretty much everything. But UI changes done to it were minor when compared to XP. I'd never accept new UI ideas introduced in Windows 8 which are in my opinion a huge step backwards. Again, if Microsoft enabled users to choose between the old and new UI, not only many Internet flame wars could be avoided, but also I'm sure Windows 8 would sell a lot better. It'd be a win-win situation with everyone happy. Two different GUIs glued together are always a bad idea. I had a chance to test Windows 8 on my friend's laptop and it repulsed me. If I could lay my hands on some trial or evaluation version, I probably would test it more thoroughly on my old rig. Nevertheless, I really doubt that even this could convince me. Not unless Metro is completely gone and everything's back to classics without the need of installing 3rd party hacks in order to revert system UI back to its former state, because this is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 As I said, you decided it was bad after a very quick introduction. I can understand people dislike the new ui (which is optional i must emphasize on it, only the start menu is unavoidable !), I didn't like it at first, but after a while you understand it's pretty much the same as it was before only in fullscreen. Also if you want to access application it's quicker, just type a few letters and you get it (like it was in vista++ only quicker). Anyway I won't add anything here, I only think that most people don't give it a serious try before deciding if it's really bad or not a big deal (with some nice ideas out of rt mode). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted December 28, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 28, 2012 I've seen a few YouTube videos on WIndows 8 desktop mode and on one of them a search tool was shown. Video's author said, that the tool has pretty much been left unchanged. I'm not sure why he said that, because the moment he clicked the Search button, a full screen Search window appeared with left-half of the screen taken (literally) by a plain color background and a few words, with the right half being the text input box and the list of current search matches. So even hacked W8 (to resemble W7) will still have leftovers of the Metro attacking you from various directions. Now, don't get me wrong BeatKitano. I'm not a Windows 8 hater. In fact, the moment I heard about the release of a new operation system I was very thrilled. I was more than sure that a user would be allowed to choose the GUI he would like to be installed. It was a real disappointment for me to realize that Microsoft's plan was completely different. Oh, and speaking about Search tool. Folks, I highly recommend you to take a closer look at Humanized Enso (http://humanized.com/). This is one of the best free tools for Windows I've ever had the pleasure of stumbling upon. It's a launcher (and more!) that enables you quickly start all of your Start Menu programs (as well as custom-defined ones) directly from the keyboard and from every part of OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Any of you gents know if it possible to dual boot with this inexpensive upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 29, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Any of you gents know if it possible to dual boot with this inexpensive upgrade? It was possible on the consumer preview, but since this is an upgrade you'll need two windows installations already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Cool thanks for the info. I purchased it, it just finished downloading and funnily, it started the "getting files ready" installation process with out asking me to continue. Though it just now stopped and asked me how to install, I'd like to choose both USB and ISO file (to burn to a disc), not sure I can. I've got another license of Win7 I can dual boot with, and then upgrade that one to Win8. Thanks for all the info too in your previous posts. It was compelling enough for me to decide to purchase it. The one thing I thought would be missing is the auto-find/search tool from the start button, ala Finder on mac, I'm glad to hear that it's there and better. That is the one thing I use frequently that I don't know I would like to live without in my computer usage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted December 29, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 In the mail with your key you can redownload the files if you want to. I know it's only a folder (probably the esd one) which contain everything for an iso and usb key but I can't confirm I got the full install disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted December 29, 2012 Report Share Posted December 29, 2012 Roger that. I ended up going with the ISO and burnt that to disc. It's relatively painless, they seem to have gotten it together for this release, quite well. I'm looking forward to installing it on my machine, might even pick up another copy for my workstation if all goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted December 31, 2012 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 I was an IT manager for a long time and one thing I learned about Microsoft OSs is that you should wait for about 6 months or so before upgrading. I've seen statements from Microsoft for the past few releases, stating it was "built from the ground up." While this may be true, some of the same bugs pop up. This means either their programming teams aren't improving their coding practices, or they've taken code already developed. The latter isn't unlikely, and is often a good practice, as reusing good code saves time and money. However, if the same bugs are popping up, it's not good code or not integrated well. I see nothing in Win 8 that makes me want or need to upgrade. I was suprised, however, to find that Win 7 works rather well on my system, more so than XP. _____________________ AbnRanger, The process of getting your PC back to normal I suggest would be: 1) Go to a restore point before the USB problems 2) Use CCleaner (see below) to do general cleanup, to optimize the registry, and to disable certain startup processes 3) Use defrag (see below) to optimize your hard drive and check for problems 4) Consider putting PrevX and Spybot Search & Destroy on your system As far as the USB, this can happen after a number of devices have been placed into a USB port and then not properly ejected. Simply pulling out USB devices can leave remnants of USB entries for that port in your Hardware Devices list. This can cause conflicts and result in a fail. The best way to fix this, in my experience is to go to a restore point before all this happened. I suggest using CCleaner (Free) and letting it do some house cleaning. You can use it's Tools > Startup function to turn off certain startup programs, but you need to be somewhat careful and aware of what you're doing there. Another task to perform is a defrag. This helps to keep your data clusters on your drive organized (however, I can't speak to how well it would do on an SSD drive). I only recommend using the built-in defrag and not a third party product. The other thing I recommend is using PrevX AND Spybot Search & Destroy for your anti-virus. PrevX runs well and is low on resources. It works while you do. For Spybot I would suggest turning off it's real-time monitoring and simply running it any time you think you might have a virus or some odd slowdown, which could be caused by spyware or a virus. Slow shut downs can be caused by a number of things, but likely it's a startup program running (like Google Updater) and/or an unoptimized registry (which CCleaner will help with) and/or drive (which is where defrag comes in). I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted January 1, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 I updated my laptop and one desktop but only because win 7 home was installed on both not pro. The upgrade will turn your system to win 8 pro which has advantages in network protocols. I would not upgrade my other win 7 pro systems, I don't see any advantage. The fast boot is on par with win 7 with clean installs. The metro ui is subjective. I don't use it even after a month of learning. I actually installed rocketdock again just to have a faster program launcher that doesn't block the whole screen. Lol. I would recommend win 8 if you are win 7 home premium user you're buying a new system that will include win 8 pro anyway you care about network protocols Its not a critical upgrade imho. If someone can point to a ground breaking feature I'm all ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Dodgy Posted January 10, 2013 Member Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I bought a win 8 based laptop recently and it is great apart from: A>No start menu, which basically means no way to get to Accessories (or other windows menu files) without searching and pinning them to your start bar. I can't see why they removed it apart from to force people to use the start screen, which doesn't have all the functionality of the start menu. If they'd kept it in, it would be big improvement over win 7, there are a lot of new nice features there, and they wouldn't have had any complaints at all. The start screen is a great alternative on tablets, but the desktop part (which is just like win 7 and simple to switch to, not a hack) should have kept the start menu. And B> my cheap tablet, a Genius f610 is having problems with it when it had no problems with win7, which I loved. The driver won't let me open the button mapping panel, so while my pen's buttons work as middle and right mouse buttons perfectly in some apps, in others they act only as right mouse. I've had to remap the navigation in 3dc because of this. Anyone else had this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted January 10, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I see absolutely no need to upgrade to Win 8 at all for me. The only reason I upgraded to Win 7 was for the 64-bit processing. That's it. My Mac has had all of this for some time now and it's upgrades didn't cost me an arm and a leg. I realize that Win 8 is cheaper than your past Windows upgrades, but that only puts it finally in line with Apple. That said, I'm glad it's working out for you guys, except for the tablet thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Dodgy Posted January 10, 2013 Member Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I would definitely say, if you're on win 7, don't bother. But Vista and earlier it's worth the upgrade to 7 or higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I missed this whole topic. I upgraded my main desktop to Win 8 on the day it was released, but my laptop was running the release previews for months before that.I'm really loving the speed and convenience it has. Aside from the OS itself being faster I find the Start page to be a lot faster and more convenient than the old menu. My only complaints are the lack of aero glass, the current broder colors are a little flat and ugly without it, frankly it reminds me of osx window borders, with just a flat color it makes it difficult to tell windows apart from each other when they're layers up. The other issue, which isn't really MS's fault is that hardware vendders like Wacom, Logitech, and 3DConnexion still haven't updated their drivers, though for the most part they work fine with the Win7 drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted January 15, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 frankly it reminds me of osx window borders Not of good taste? Nevermind, it does't look like osx, they will never understand what good taste means. Eh. I had to say it. Sorry. Blender is my favorite app after all, compilers on OSX and Linux are similar, makes this app to run faster under these OSs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted January 15, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Oh yeah, let's start an OS war pretty please ! I wanna play ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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