How to sculp an armor?

[Malo]

Hello

I have a little question about sculpting armors, Future armors like in Crysis or Mass Effekt and old stuff like knights.

For the games i have created armors, i created it Poly by Poly or out of a Box based on the game charakter.

And then i have sculped the little details.

But now with 3d coat, i think it would be recommned to do it compledly here.

Could you give some advice about the technics and tools that i should prefer to use or some other tipps, tutorials for sculpting armors?

Or should i stay on PbP or Boxmodelling?

Regards

Malo

[Daniel]

Hello Malo,

1. Sculpt it from sketches or "from your imagination" with Voxels in Voxel room

2. Use AUTOPO (auto-retopology) or go to Retopo room and make a manual Retopo of your armor (considering your poly budget)

3. Make seams and unwrap for the UV-set

4. Bake fine details to normal map via Retopo->Merge with NM (per-pixel). It'll bring you to Paint room (choose low-poly, set desired texture size for the UV-set)

5. Make textures (color, specular, normal map)

6. Export low-poly OBJ + textures (those that you need)

Have Fun!

[Malo]

Many thanks for the reply.

2-6 are known from me.

The interessting is point 1 for me.

As far as i see, i have two options.

1. Sculpt directly from the body with the Absolute Tool and others.

or

2. Use the VoxLayer Tool to create a new Object and redefine that one.

Are there more options?

What Tools should i prefer to sculp?

Is it possible to use the Absolute Tool through the complede modell and not only in the front?

Any other hints and tipps for me?

[Daniel]

I would prefer vox layer - you simply paint the area of your future armor, set the offset and thickness - very handy!

Then sculpt it as usual: Grow or Airbrush or Extrude. Scrape, Smooth... etc

[Malo]

Is it possible to use the Voxlayer through the complede modell?

As far as i see i only could paint the front area.

If i want to create wristband i have to paint arm around. But with one of the Border Tools in the E Panel, i could only paint the front.

[Daniel]

take off "Ignore back faces" check

[Malo]

Thanks

[Malo]

Another Question

I want to create a belt, that starts on the chest, goes over the shoulder and down to the hips.

I was thinking i use the curve tool for that, but as far as i see, the rotation wont works correctly or in that way, that i need it.

Is it possible to rotate not only he complede curve, because i only want to rotate some parts of it.

It is more a twist that i need on the points.

Any idea how that works?

[AbnRanger]

You may be able to pick up a tip on how to do that, about halfway through, I think.

[alvordr]

I don't know if you have ZBrush, but I tend to go to ZBrush for things like that. ...partly because my 3DC learning is still ongoing, but also because I find it fast enough. I can also use ZB and 3DC together very easily to get whatever functions I need.

[AbnRanger]

I don't know if you have ZBrush, but I tend to go to ZBrush for things like that. ...partly because my 3DC learning is still ongoing, but also because I find it fast enough. I can also use ZB and 3DC together very easily to get whatever functions I need.

It's plenty fast enough in 3D Coat, but the object being replicated sometimes may have to be flipped along an axis first, before it can flow right. You can spin a point or the whole curve, in centrifugal fashion, by checking "Apply to whole curve" (or unchecking it for a single point), and use the slider "Rotate" in the Tool Options Panel.

I've asked Andrew to give us the option in the Tool Options Panel to flip the orientation or direction of the object along the curve, but it hasn't been done yet.

[Malo]

@AbnRanger

Thanks a lot, now it works.

It was only the little checkbox.

@alvordr

Sorry but no, ZB hates me.

I cant work with ZB, maybe it is the difficult UI or any other stuff, not sure.

But as far as i see, with 3D Coat i could work easier on my modells.

[alvordr]

Go with what you know. The rest will come if it wants to...

[Carlosan]

About belt and strap

Sorry but how do you make this clean borders ?

And how to fit exactly to the body ?

cant found the way

ty

[alvordr]

Use VoxLayer or VoxExtrude the area you want to start with, then sculpt it. I prefer VoxLayer, as it puts the painted area you want to work with on a separate layer. Then you can mess with it all you want, without damaging the original mesh. If you prefer later to make it part of the original mesh, then you simply merge it to the layer where the original is.

[Malo]

I would use Curves for that.

[digman]

@Carlosa

Edit. I have edited this post a few times to make it clearer...

Ok here is another way which really needs a video tutorial at sometime..

First Create your belt in the retopo room using polygons on top of the voxel sculpt.

Subdivide the mesh a few times in the retopo room to help preserve the shape when merging in the voxel room but not too many times.

Return to the voxel room and create a new layer.

Next RES+ the empty layer a few times (2 to 4) Even though the layer is empty, it is still increasing the voxel density of the layer.

Use the merge tool and select "Merge as Skin and Pick from Retopo". Under the Merge as Skin settings be sure to use the Outer thickness setting as this will extude the merged polygons outward... You do not need to set the skin thickness when using the Outer Thickness setting, I have found.

Also subdivide the mesh before merging to smooth it.

Now since you have increased the voxel density of that layer, there is no need to scale up the belt. You will have enough voxels to create clean edges.

Of course you can undo and res+ more the empty layer if the you think the edges are not sharp enough. Just remember your voxel density increases 4x with each res+

But, no strap follows the human body perfectly... right below the pecks and over the shoulder by the neck there are some gaps and some in the back...

So before merging as skin adjust the strap mesh in the retopo.

This is where the transform tool (faces mode, edge mode, vertices mode) in the retopo room will work very well for adjusting the straps to more realistically fit the body... just be sure to turn off "Auto Snap" (top menu before using it). Plus if the strap is digging a little too deep into the sculpt in some areas this can be adjusted as well, then re-merged.

Now with some good planning your can create the straps, belt, buckles etc....

In the picture you can see I adjusted the strap below the Pecks in the retopo room before merging the strap as skin. I could have added a cleaner edge by bumping the res+ up before merging but this was just a quick simple example... Added one more picture. First picture has some anti-alias jaggies going on there too along the edges as it was just a grab from the voxel room.

[Carlosan]

tested 2 methods

Curves method

is fine if the surface to follow is clean without picks. But if not... every point have their own depth axis and the curve result is not straight.

Retopo method

Every works fine until i press apply

If Merge as Skin is on, the object merged is a mess of holes

If Merge as Skin is off, i got the result attached in the pic

any help is welcome

ty all

//edit

Voxel layer

subdivisions [8x]

250000

Edited June 11, 2013 by carlosa

[digman]

I do not get that problem, so I am not much help without having access to your 3DCoat file to look at it. I will be gone for two days. If you want when I get back in town, I can look at your 3DC file.

Using 3DC linux version here.

I re-read my directions and they are correct.

What is your outer thickness set at? did you set it? the voxel object looks very thin...

I set my skin thickness to "0" but the outer thickness I set to a number. In my example it was set at "7"

Other than that, I do not know without seeing the file...

[alvordr]

Did you try the voxlayer and/or voxextrude tools? You also need to set the thickness for those, as well. If you want, I can record a quick video on how to do it.

[Carlosan]

0000553: Merge with Outer thickness does not work in surface mode

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=553

Please will any1 confirm it ?

ty

[Carlosan]

I found the... bug (?)

or merge with skin only works at Voxel mode ?

If i do

merge from retopo

Over a SURFACE layer PARENT... doesnt matter how i subdivide the retopo group, or done subdivision few times into merge tool option, the result is JAGGED*

*see pics attached

BUT If i do

merge from retopo

Over a VOXEL layer PARENT... the result is OK

Please will any1 confirm it ?

ty

[digman]

First your subdividing your mesh too much in the retopo room, that is the reason the voxel / surface mesh is retaining the boxy look. Only subdivide once or twice the retopo mesh in the retopo room and then subdivide the mesh enough times to get a smooth mesh using the subdivision selection tab in the merge tool dialog box.

I do not know the reason that the mesh retains that boxy look if you subdivide too much in the retopo room.

Ok, here is what I found about your asking for confirmation on a possible bug...

For surface mode to work correctly do the below:

First Res+ the voxel layer while in voxel mode and then switch to surface mode for that layer and use the above described method. Surface mode also has merge tool as well. That works as I explained. Just be sure to deselect "Merge without voxelizing" as your are in surface mode. It will mess things up if left selected.

I did find a few things going wrong with "Merge without Voxelizing while in Voxel mode using the above described method. I just tested a little when I arrived back in town. I need to test more tommorrow before addressing it at Mantis. Surface mode merging works correctly if the layer that is to receive the retopo mesh is in surface mode and you use the merge tool in surface mode.

Picture included to show results while merging in surface mode...

[Carlosan]

welcome back

ty for you help

testing your workflow tomorrow morning

<---- (zzzZZZ)

regards !

[Carlosan]

digman, TY

You've hit the nail on the head.

This is the old mantis request about:

http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=553

----------------------------

well... i have a new question

how do you get crispy edges ?

let me add my result / desired result

ty again !

[Malo]

Little question from my side.

Is it possible to fill or close an object, that is created with the Vox Layer Tool?

Lets say, if i want to create a wristband, (i know, there are easier ways, but now as an example it should work and as little help for explaining) i mark the wrist and use apply.

Now, we all know, the new wristband is created as real band like in real world. But what i want, is more a cylinder at the end.

Little example

Is it possible to close an object that is created with the Vox Layer Tool?

And when yes, did that work on more complex objects, too?

When not, forget it, i know a differnen way, much more work, but it should works,

The reason why i asking is,

1. if i have some realy small thicknes like 0.01 and an offset of 0, it is very hard to work with that,

2. there are too much polys in use (there are both sides, and as thinner as more). If i reduce it, i get an ugly shape, because of the thicknes (i know) and smooth wont works as i wish.

Any infos would be nice.

Regards Malo

[digman]

I do not think it is possible with the voxel layer tool

Use the clone tool instead and choose to use a e-panel spine tool.

Set your e-panel border width to about 3 or even "0".

Be sure you are in Orthographic mode when using the clone tool.

Look at the picture to see a possible merge settings setup for the clone tool.

If you want the clone to be on a it's own layer, choose merge to separate volumes. The default setting is to merge the clone on the same layer thus merging it with the current voxel object.

Before pressing to apply the clone, use the transform gizmo to resize your clone to the desired size. You can also scale the cloned object after it is merged using the transform tool settings.

Click on any brush to make the white clone leave the scene.

This might not be what you want specifically but the clone and cut and clone tools are powerfull tools for creating hard surface objects. They can be use as objects themselves or use as cutters to create shapes from other objects.

I am not sure of your end result for the armband if you still want it to really be open or just appear like a armband.

The second picture shows the solid band around the cylinder and the armband I made, both using the clone tool.

At sometime a feature request would be to put ( make mesh closed) as an option for the Voxlayer as well...

Remember if I do not hit your questions with all cylinders, I am just doing my best to help...

[alvordr]

Little question from my side.

Is it possible to fill or close an object, that is created with the Vox Layer Tool?

Lets say, if i want to create a wristband, (i know, there are easier ways, but now as an example it should work and as little help for explaining) i mark the wrist and use apply.

Now, we all know, the new wristband is created as real band like in real world. But what i want, is more a cylinder at the end.

Little example

Voxlayer1.jpg

Is it possible to close an object that is created with the Vox Layer Tool?

And when yes, did that work on more complex objects, too?

When not, forget it, i know a differnen way, much more work, but it should works,

The reason why i asking is,

1. if i have some realy small thicknes like 0.01 and an offset of 0, it is very hard to work with that,

2. there are too much polys in use (there are both sides, and as thinner as more). If i reduce it, i get an ugly shape, because of the thicknes (i know) and smooth wont works as i wish.

Any infos would be nice.

Regards Malo

I suggest keeping your thickness like it is, going into Surface Mode, do the smoothing, then go back to Voxel Mode.

[Malo]

Thanks for the replys.

@alvordr

Hm, not realy, maybe i did something wrong.

What i did was,

- Use Voxel Layer Tool on a Voxel object with Offset 0 and a thickness of 0.01 -> see picture.for more infos.

- In Suface Mode i smoothe the object several times (5 times).

- Switch to Voxel Mode.

@digman

Nice idea, with the clone tool. I use a slightly different way.

I copy the complede object, scale it up with the extrude (rightklick on the layer) and then i use the cut tools.

Much more work as a filled Vox Layer Tool object, but both ways works, as far as i see.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Malo

[Malo]

Another little question.

Is it possible, if i use the Vox Layer Tool, to fill the area between two "guide lines"?

Example

I want to use the Vox Layer Tool, and that curve on the picture (red area), not sure how it is called.

I have created two closed curves, and i want to ask, if it is possible to fill the area between this two curves automaticly.

Sure i could fill it manally, but is there a way to do that job automaticly?