3D-Coat 2.10 BETA2

[Andrew Shpagin]

I have updated the link again, please check if GL/GMA issue fixed.

[philnolan3d]

Editing all layers in external editor still sends it to Photoshop at the wrong size. My textures are 2048, but in PS they're 1024.

BTW the title bar for the DX version shows (GL)) and (DX)

The new retopo menu could take a little time to get used to, but I think it works.

[ldzywsj]

I am so glad that the GL version successfully and stably run on my desktop for the first time!

[philnolan3d]

Every time I open 3DC it's maximized. If I Restore down I have to resize it, but then after closing and restarting it's maximized again. GL version still crashes, so couldn't test it there.

[Guest Lottmedia]

I still cannot do anything with my pen without doubleclicking, which makes using it for selecting things, retopo and everythign but actually painting rather impractical. I don't particularly like the new panel for retopo either, the old one didn't do it for me either, though, I always had to hunt the tools because it was all text buttons and nothing seemed to be where I wanted it. This new one is still text heavy and it still isn't very apparent which tool you are using so I do a lot of back and forth to the panel. It's not intuitive yet You shouldn't have to spend so much time going back and forth to the panel.

Also, I would love somethign like zbrush's rotate/move tool, where you just click outside the model to rotate it. The navi dosen't work well with a pen because unless you put it in the very center of the screen (which is highly impractical), you always have to do movements in small jumps to one direction or another (if it's at the top of your screen it;'s hard to rotate up or move camera down)

Sorry to be so poopy on this one, hat to only drop bad things

C-

[wailingmonkey]

Just a quick note about 2.10 Beta2A (DX version) :

If I go to retopo the default head/bust and choose 'Tweak with brush' I am unable to

change the radius of the brush using the middle-mouse-scroll wheel (as I could in

all previous versions)...hope this is just an oversight/bug and not a 'feature' (what

occurs when I scroll is that the 'mode:' types are scrolled through) .

[Andrew Shpagin]

I still cannot do anything with my pen without doubleclicking, which makes using it for selecting things, retopo and everythign but actually painting rather impractical. I don't particularly like the new panel for retopo either, the old one didn't do it for me either, though, I always had to hunt the tools because it was all text buttons and nothing seemed to be where I wanted it. This new one is still text heavy and it still isn't very apparent which tool you are using so I do a lot of back and forth to the panel. It's not intuitive yet You shouldn't have to spend so much time going back and forth to the panel.

Also, I would love somethign like zbrush's rotate/move tool, where you just click outside the model to rotate it. The navi dosen't work well with a pen because unless you put it in the very center of the screen (which is highly impractical), you always have to do movements in small jumps to one direction or another (if it's at the top of your screen it;'s hard to rotate up or move camera down)

Sorry to be so poopy on this one, hat to only drop bad things

C-

I want to get to know more on pen click problem:

Maybe you are clicking with pen quickly (faster then with mouse)? Try to press slowly. If it is a source of problem, I will increase input rate and 3DC will feel fast click normally. Also, please tell what fps do you see in left bottom?

About rotate - do you mean that dragging mouse outside the model should lead to rotation? It seems to be in conflict with slice tool - it requires to start dragging outside the model.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Just a quick note about 2.10 Beta2A (DX version) :

If I go to retopo the default head/bust and choose 'Tweak with brush' I am unable to

change the radius of the brush using the middle-mouse-scroll wheel (as I could in

all previous versions)...hope this is just an oversight/bug and not a 'feature' (what

occurs when I scroll is that the 'mode:' types are scrolled through) .

ok, I will change wheel back. I think space/rmb/up/down are enough to switch retopo mode.

[ldzywsj]

In retopo mode,when press [ to decrease the size of brush,the work mode also switchs,just like the up key,and i think it is not good.

[rimasson]

I like the new retopo menu. especially the ability to use the right mouse button to select a tool.

In open GL mode, with the Select and Operate tool, i can't see selected Edges and faces. They are selected, they are converted into vertice selection when i switch to vertices mode. I just can't see the selection.

It works fine in Direct X mode.

I've still have the subdivide bug when i subdivide polys with the Select and operate tool.

is it possible to add 2 more features :

a 'keep quads option' when i split selected edges with the select and oprate tool.

A color feedback of the selected polygons in the select and operate tool.

That's all.

[philnolan3d]

I imported an OBJ from MakeHuman and it's just a black silhouette. If I switch to UV edit mode I can see all of the polys normally. The zipped model is only 464KB, so I can attach it if you like. I figure for now I can just imported it to LW and save it as an LWO, that should probably solve it for now.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Yes, please send me the file. I had reports about failure on importing MH objects. Maybe because automapping fails unwrapping. I see that object is not uv-mapped, just separated on objects.

[philnolan3d]

Here's the OBJ. I tried loading it into LW and Modeler crashed, so it may be the OBJ file.

sad_sack.zip

[rimasson]

I tested the cloning tool, and it is extremely slow, in comparison with 2.09.

[Guest Lottmedia]

I want to get to know more on pen click problem:

Maybe you are clicking with pen quickly (faster then with mouse)? Try to press slowly. If it is a source of problem, I will increase input rate and 3DC will feel fast click normally. Also, please tell what fps do you see in left bottom?

The speed of the click doesn't seem to affect anything. If I double click, relatively slowly, it works, quick double-click dosen't do it though. It's in DX BTW, but I just checked in GL and it does the same thing for me. My framerate is 29-40 or so without plugin, 109-220 with plugin, but not perceivable change in clicking behavior either way.

About rotate - do you mean that dragging mouse outside the model should lead to rotation? It seems to be in conflict with slice tool - it requires to start dragging outside the model.

Yes, I know it would interfere with the current tool paradigm but right now it's very clumsy to work with with in tablet mode, too much relying on keyboard or mouse. I'm entertaining the thought of getting a 3d mouse to help with that issue, but I downloaded the zbrush trial and was amazed at how easy it was to use with the tablet.

C-

PS, I do like the right-click menu for retopo, thought, didn't realize you could do that. Still text heavy though. Have you looked into something like Alias Sketchbook's menu system? It's very intuitive and quick.

[Guest Lottmedia]

Here's a tiny vid of the menu I thought I was talking about I seem to remember it differently, but I think I'm also thinking of a game I played a while back (don't remember which) but I was really impressed with the interface because everything was done with the mouse. Rightclcik brought up a circular menu like this, you drug towards what you wanted, then more options appeared in another circle if it had any. Hardly any need for the keyboard and perfect for tablet operation.

Casey-

menu_demo.mov

[Andrew Shpagin]

The speed of the click doesn't seem to affect anything. If I double click, relatively slowly, it works, quick double-click dosen't do it though. It's in DX BTW, but I just checked in GL and it does the same thing for me. My framerate is 29-40 or so without plugin, 109-220 with plugin, but not perceivable change in clicking behavior either way.

Yes, I know it would interfere with the current tool paradigm but right now it's very clumsy to work with with in tablet mode, too much relying on keyboard or mouse. I'm entertaining the thought of getting a 3d mouse to help with that issue, but I downloaded the zbrush trial and was amazed at how easy it was to use with the tablet.

C-

PS, I do like the right-click menu for retopo, thought, didn't realize you could do that. Still text heavy though. Have you looked into something like Alias Sketchbook's menu system? It's very intuitive and quick.

Does "hard clicking" works only with LMB? Does RMB affected? Do you need doulble click RMB also?

[Andrew Shpagin]

I have updated the link. I have made support of ALL Photoshop blending modes, more correct PSD transferring (opacity is also stored), clone lag fixed.

Philnolan3d, it seems that 1024 problem is because you have not set correct resolution in uv-sets manager.

[Guest Lottmedia]

Does "hard clicking" works only with LMB? Does RMB affected? Do you need doulble click RMB also?

Not exactly sure what you mean, but right-clicking dosen't seem to be affected (it's set where I don't even touch the screen) but after your post I tried pressing REALLY HARD and it seems to work. If I set the pen feel to very soft feel it works better, I still have to press in a good bit to select stuff, but it's doable but when I try to paint with those settings it's impossible because it's like using the mouse (full pressure)

C-

[philnolan3d]

Philnolan3d, it seems that 1024 problem is because you have not set correct resolution in uv-sets manager.

So you have to change the resolution in 2 different places? I just tried it. I change the resolution in "Change Mesh & Texture Resolution" and send it to PS. wrong res. So then I also changed it in UV-Sets Manager and tried again. Thios time it sent the correct res.

BTW, still hoping for a way to paint spec on a separate layer without it affecting color. If nobody else is interested in that it wouldn't kill me if it was left out though.

[philnolan3d]

I figured out how to get a Make Human model into 3DC and wrote up a little tutorial

http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/i...?showtopic=1188

Here's a couple of bugs. Alt+RMB dragging only rotates the camera a little bit, then it stops. I have to fully let go of both buttons then press them again to rotate more.

I have to hit Esc several times to make it drop the tool and trl+Z several times to undo.

Hitting the bracket keys " [ ] " changes the brush size, but it also scrolls through the tools in retopo mode.

[ghib]

Andrew, I just gave the new Beta a whirl. Good job on getting all of the Photoshop Blending modes in they're working well with editing & syncing to Photoshop. The only blending mode I noticed that wasn't working correctly is 'Multiply' The colour is appearing lighter instead of darker.

I also noticed that after saving and switching back to 3DCoat the newly created layer structure in photoshop doesn't overwrite the one in 3DCoat. I think it would have more clarity if it worked this way as I'm finding it quite hard to work out what has been synced up/merged/transferred etc.. The same should apply with importing Layers colours I think, or at least to have an overwrite Layers option.

I also had a few thoughts on how the Transform/copy tool could be improved maybe which I'll post here

Cheers

[wailingmonkey]

another really quick test of 2.10beta2B results in this:

OpenGL:

DirectX

(ATI x800 256mb, latest drivers...XP pro SP2, 3.0ghz, 2gb)

[rimasson]

I found another issue with layers blending.

I create a 'base' layer, and keep it's standart blending mode

i create 2 more layers , each with a ifferent blending mode

when i 'merge visible layers' the final layer is identical to the original ones

when i merge the second layer to the first, then the third to the first, with the merge down command, i've got blending issues.

- The Hue blending mode reacts strangly when i use a pure wite color.

[Andrew Shpagin]

I found another issue with layers blending.

I create a 'base' layer, and keep it's standart blending mode

i create 2 more layers , each with a ifferent blending mode

when i 'merge visible layers' the final layer is identical to the original ones

when i merge the second layer to the first, then the third to the first, with the merge down command, i've got blending issues.

Merging down of layers with blending is really problematic even for Photoshop. Let you have Layers A,B,C. Let you want to merge layers B and C and C has some unusual blending rule. In that case merging will be excellent where B overlaps A but how to be with areas where C is filled but B is empty or half - transparent? In that case it is impossible to transform layer into something that will be blended in normal way. You can try it in Photoshop.

But merge visible works fine always because in that case I simply take visible color and put in on layer1

*edit: after writing it I have got idea how to convert layer with blending to usual layer without loosing quality

[Andrew Shpagin]

another really quick test of 2.10beta2B results in this:

The main problem of OpenGL is that every driver vendor compiles shaders as he wants. So it is really difficult to make universal OpenGL version. Programs like MB, Maya, Max,... does not use shaders, they simply show polygones without normalmapping.

GL shaders are compiled by driver, but DX shaders are compiled in program. It is main difference that makes GL less compartible.

But GL version has some advantage - it works better especially for Quadro FX cards because QFX DirectX divers are really bad, OGL drivers are better. I had several times problems with QuadroFX cards on support, so Open GL version should solve problems at least for that type of cards. But NV 5,6,7,8 has excellent DX drivers, so using DX version is better.

Why polygones are not shown? It seems because shaders on your PC was compiled with error. Please send me log.txt after showing polygones in retopo tool. It will help me to make shaders more universal.

[philnolan3d]

I may be just missing it, but I don't see the autosave warning. What does it look like?

Edit: Oh I see it now! I think it needs to be a little more prominent. I was thinking "hey what's that red thing? Oh wait it says Autosave 25, 24, 23, etc."

[Andrew Shpagin]

I may be just missing it, but I don't see the autosave warning. What does it look like?

Red small warning at the top center. Btw, thanks for solving problem with MH!

[Andrew Shpagin]

After writing the long message about "so complex layers merging" I have got idea and made merging in general way without limitations, only 15 min of coding. It works fine even on unusual belede layers

[philnolan3d]

Red small warning at the top center. Btw, thanks for solving problem with MH!

Yeah I just finished editing my post saying that I found it. "No prob." about MH.