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Will there be a free update for 3.0 release to all existing users


lbmurali
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Andrew.

As a 76year old pensioner can I complain about an update price?

More to the point, I think, for most apps the maximum update price is about a third to a half of the previous models price.

This would , to me, be paying $28-40 or, for the $120 purchasers, $40-60.

I think, like many, from the beginning, I have been wildly promoting 3DC to everyone as a better alternative than Z-Brush.

With the deals that have been available on Z-Brush through Daz($300) and ?3DWorld etc your suggested new pricings and update costs sadly remove a lot of the value I have been promoting.

Brian

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$40 for the upgrade for present owners of 2.10 would be fair. If you had been gradually raising your price over several versions, that's one thing. But you cannot blame people for reacting when you suddenly want to change the full selling price to $200 (correct price?). Or $100 for an upgrade.

Those of us that paid $80 or so a few months or more ago have been supporting you up till now, so to suddenly say that the price of owning 3DC will now be more than double what we paid originally. It's not our fault if you underpriced 3DC in the beginning.

And please do not try and give us the sad story about your long hours and having to support a family. So what? That makes you no better and no worse than the rest of us. We all have to work long hours these days and many of us have families to support.

You can charge what you want-that's your choice. Our choice is to move on and support other products that don't overcharge. If you need more money, either market another software product as well as 3DC or else go work for someone else and work on 3DC part-time.

It's entirely up to you. No hard feelings, it's just business.

BTW-I am sick of talking about this issue and won't be replying to anyone in this thread besides Andrew-depending on his decision.

Cheers

Classy. (as have been most of your 'helpful' posts...I especially appreciated the ones where you chastise those that tried to help you

with your previous questions. Seen them over on Silo boards too, and I will say, at least you're consistent.)

I'm definitely willing to pay a $100 upgrade fee for a 3.0 upgrade. But I'm basing that on the proven development cycle and dedication

to improve the software according to consumer request (oh yeah, and the fact that it's currently severly over-featured for it's price).

As was mentioned in the other post ( http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/i...?showtopic=1443 )

amcmahon paints a pretty good picture of the realities of price vs. value in case you missed it. Here's hoping that Mudbox (and

the Autodesk machine) gives you all that you apparently will require (and for a lowly 3 to 4-times larger price you're whining about here). :wacko:

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The usual upgrade fee is as bwtr has mentioned is a about 33% - 50% of the cost price for existing customers this is without VAT (Value added Tax) which for me is at 17.5%.

I believe existing users should have a low upgrade price because without us it is doubtful that 3D Coat would exist as it is today,myself and probably the rest of your current user base has been advertising/recommending this product across the net.

There is something else I do not really understand,3D Coat is currently at 2.10 3DCoat 3.0 is potentially several point releases away are you going to jump from 2.10 to 3.0?

Andrew my comments are not meant to be offensive in any way,they are just my thoughts on the subject.

Jim

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The usual upgrade fee is as bwtr has mentioned is a about 33% - 50% of the cost price for existing customers this is without VAT (Value added Tax) which for me is at 17.5%.

I believe existing users should have a low upgrade price because without us it is doubtful that 3D Coat would exist as it is today,myself and probably the rest of your current user base has been advertising/recommending this product across the net.

There is something else I do not really understand,3D Coat is currently at 2.10 3DCoat 3.0 is potentially several point releases away are you going to jump from 2.10 to 3.0?

Andrew my comments are not meant to be offensive in any way,they are just my thoughts on the subject.

Jim

It looks as though the upgrade cost of Z-Brush to V3 from V2 will be 22% of the current Z-Brush price.

Brian

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Usually upgrade to next version costs 30% because of general price point remains the same. But 3dC grows price fluently from very low value 70$ to bigger values together with features development.

And 200$ is really not a big value. Comparing with MB, ZB, Claytools, BP... And 200$ for voxels sculpting, direct painting and 64-bit seems to be absolutely not expensive. That is absolutely huge piece of work. Also, plice growth is required to keep company in stable and growing state. I like my work I want to continue it.

About 2.10-3.0. There was 10 free upgrages and every of them was big enough. It is more then in most other program. At that rate 2.10,2.11,2.12,...,2.99 I will go to 3.0 in decade :)

But anyway, question of upgrade price is open.

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Usually upgrade to next version costs 30% because of general price point remains the same. But 3dC grows price fluently from very low value 70$ to bigger values together with features development.

And 200$ is really not a big value. Comparing with MB, ZB, Claytools, BP... And 200$ for voxels sculpting, direct painting and 64-bit seems to be absolutely not expensive. That is absolutely huge piece of work. Also, plice growth is required to keep company in stable and growing state. I like my work I want to continue it.

About 2.10-3.0. There was 10 free upgrages and every of them was big enough. It is more then in most other program. At that rate 2.10,2.11,2.12,...,2.99 I will go to 3.0 in decade :)

But anyway, question of upgrade price is open.

Ha ha!! the point releases hardly ever come at one point at a time,as you indicate release status is always at the developers discretion.

EDIT: Anyway I am sure you will do what is fair for your customers and your family.

Jim

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The usual upgrade fee is as bwtr has mentioned is a about 33% - 50% of the cost price for existing customers this is without VAT (Value added Tax) which for me is at 17.5%.

I believe existing users should have a low upgrade price because without us it is doubtful that 3D Coat would exist as it is today,myself and probably the rest of your current user base has been advertising/recommending this product across the net.

There is something else I do not really understand,3D Coat is currently at 2.10 3DCoat 3.0 is potentially several point releases away are you going to jump from 2.10 to 3.0?

Andrew my comments are not meant to be offensive in any way,they are just my thoughts on the subject.

Jim

Jim, this has been covered in previous posts in the forums by Andrew as to why the constant iterations on 3DC but I totally understand that not everyone is current on or pays attention to the forums so I'll try to recap as best I can. I've worked with a lot of programmers and have beta tested and use many of the current progs on the market. What Andrew has done with this program is without question a phenomenal feat. All of the iterative releases 2.0 - 2.10.07 are for the most part his willingness to appease the demand for the product. I've never seen someone make such fast turn around time on fixes, feature upgrades and implementation, and have constant communication with the user base. A LOT of features went into the updates from 2.0 -2.10 that he never charged for which has taken an incredible amount of time and effort to produce. And all of this was for the most part in response to feedback from us users. He didn't have to release any updates at all but he did. 3.0 is going an even bigger step forward in features and fixes.

I understand the common reaction to change and I can honestly tell you all that this product is well worth the asking price. You simply will not find another program for as little as the upcoming price with all that 3DC offers. I would pay the current price for the topology tools alone. But to add the ability to sculpt, paint depth directly onto your normal maps, paint color in 3D or 2D, symmetry copying that actually works, projection painting, and many more things in there and to come. It's just a no brainer that the cost is going to go up. I use a program called Headus UVLayout. Best UV program I've found. All it does is unwrap UV's. Cost me $275. For me it's worth it because I use it professionally but I wouldn't recommend it to a hobbyist. 3DC is not only much cheaper but far more valuable and robust. And is PERFECT for the hobbyist even at the new price point.

Any way I've been long winded enough. I think people will do what they feel like and in the end when they find there really isn't anything else better on the market for even close to the same price they'll cave and buy 3.0.

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IMO, if future update could be free for all existing users, it would be the best and please many.

(C4 game engine is applying this policy. It was 100. Then, 200 and now 350. No argument.)

If this is not possible, at least there should be discounts for major upgrade.

Some of us are hobbyists and may not know what exactly the new features are used for.

Just follow the trend of experienced users.

:unsure:

After Sep 15, new users have to pay for new pricing system.

My comments are not meant to be offensive in any way.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

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I have bought 3d Coat for the price. I'm an hobbiest and that price was reasonable.

I don't need voxel sculpting but I need another of the upcoming feature of the v3 : Importing Geometry without subdividing the mesh (hope it is still in Andrew plan http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/i...showtopic=1253). I know that the price raise more for the voxel sculpting respect the other feature but I probably update anyway.

Some program use a different type of update for new customer: ALL dot release and ALL the release within the year.

In any case the license for the 2.10 never expired, so I can use what I paid for.

Luca

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For $200 this program is still a bargain.

I totally second this sentiment. I bought 3D-Coat fo $120, a total bargain. It was only a matter of time until Andrew realized that this was a bit underpriced for the features offered. Of course the low entry price helped to build the community in the first place...

Furthermore, I find Andrew's method of calculating the upgrade price totally fair. The way he puts it (if I've understood correctly), registered users will be paying:

The price difference between the current price of v2 and the price of v3 PLUS a customer service charge.

Thus, we're paying for new features PLUS the very responsive, dedicated and astoundingly fast customer service (which includes bugfixing and the improvement of existing features).

However, one could argue that it would be prudent to have a limited pre-order period offering the v3 upgrade at a slightly reduced price for loyal customers. After all, the success of the software is - in part - also founded on the (freely given) efforts of the loyal alpha and beta-testers frequenting this forum.

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If 3.0 is stable and works as described, then $200.00 is a very reasonable price. Consider all the free support on this forum and the constant bug fixes. Some major 3D apps put out very few updates, and rarely have any communication with the user base.

Maybe you should sell 2 versions. Pro (full featured) and Limited (without volumetric sculpting or limited in other ways).

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200,- for the v3 features are a nice price. The only problem I see rising is the gui. With a higher price you expect a intuitive gui that guides you / offers you the right options at the right time.

Right now I often feel lost in 3DC. I have to look up for workflows that should be self-explanatory (thousand ways to import your model-thousand possible traps). And with its features growing, this will sooner or later become a show stopper i.e. people will think twice if it's worth the effort of learning the gui (think blender).

If 3dc v3 feels solid, has a easy-to-grasp workflow (maybe presets for import/export etc), in short, when it feels like a professional tool, then 200,- is no problem at all.

mike

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Andrew,

Thanks to you for an incredible application, as well as a totally refreshing approach to program development. You've had a lot of help on the way, and those who have assisted have already benefited from the evolution of 3D Coat, basically for free.

I have, in the past, most willingly paid $100 just to be in a 'Continuous Upgrade Program' (CUP) for 3D software. The original software only cost me $80. and each new and wonderful full number upgrade was $100, which was prepaid by the CUP price. So basically, I PAID to be a beta tester. I have no sympathy for those who are complaining now.

By the way, THAT software company no longer exists making 3D applications, as the cost of the software was well below what was needed for the company to survive. If you were to disappear, and it is sad to think, people would hunt the internet for and also share the last great version of your software, with no regard of you and the story behind 3D Coat, only caring for themselves.

This is your program. You have to price it for your own needs. It would be another matter if you were intentionally gouging the user base, but you aren't. The price your are proposing is MORE than fair. If users can't keep up with the pricing demands, then they should again scour the internet for those free or low cost tools in the same way that they found 3D Coat. As always, where there is a need, it will be filled, but not always with what we desire.

It will be a struggle for me to meet your new pricing schedule, but (as mentioned by others) it would be far more expensive for the alternatives.

There is too much discussion already.

Best Regards,

Chuck

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Let's study the history of the ol' 3d-Jacket a bit, eh guys?

http://www.3d-coat.com/news_old.html

September, 19th - release date of 3D - Brush 2.0 - release version

14.09.07 - Theme: release

Price for Commercial version - 210$,

for Basic version - 140$

--------

Then came the discount, to 50$ at first, if I remember correctly?

-----------

06.11.07 - Theme: release of 3D-Brush 2.01

Also we decided to increase the product price slowly. So we have not reverted to the initial price declared ($210). Until the end of November the price will remain on the level of $85.

------

As some one who doesn't even own 3d-Coat yet, I'm amazed at the ignorance in this thread. You don't even know the discount history of 1 year of the program you own?? A year ago, I knew exactly how things were going to turn out, because it was very clearly stated the price would be going back up. At first the discount would have lasted a much shorter time. Then it was generously lenghtened. I didn't have need for purchasing at the time, so I figured I'll hang around and wait for 3.0 and see what my situation is. I just had to register and post because of some of the ridiculous attitudes presented here.

If you claim Andrew has a somehow misleading price/marketing policy, then how can a guy like me who didn't even buy the soft yet have a very clear picture and no illusions? Now I hope you don't get offended and just wish you will change your evil opinion :D

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I'm agreeing with the suggestion for a final 3DC3 for the current 3DC features at no price increase (over the already stated full value) and a 3DC3 Pro version, with the new advanced features at additional cost.

You can keep the hobbyist and small 3D shop users (who helped 3DC grow) and, as well, draw in the larger 3D shops and professional users.

If you could create a scaled down version of 3D coat, present features locked in, with updates for only bug fixes and small features that make the current 3DC experience more pleasant. Then an option to upgrade, or add-on, the new features you are developing. I look at the introduction of 3D Brush as a beta price with the increase for stages in the development.. Then you can do the same for the advanced features while they are in development, new purchasers have the option of just buying 3DC3, or paying a bit more for the current state of 3DC3 Pro. Ground floor users, who got in on earlier Pro developments pay with testing and suggestions, and get the final numbered upgrade at no additional cost. When you announce features for a new numbered version, set a price for the final version, and give anyone who wishes to be a beta tester a break (30% off ?) on the final price if they prepay.

Now might be a good time to consider it.

best regards,

Chuck

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Well well well...

Greedy people around it seems. Even if you are a hobbyist, the price is a bargain actualy and you shouldn't complain about it ! Guess you people never paid for support or suscriptions over at Autodesk, Softimage, etc... Go and try it, then we will see if you still think 100$ or 120$ for an upgrade is a lot to ask.

And I must say that Andrew is amazing in responding right in time, fixing bugs and getting in touch with his community... Autodesk is kind of trying to change that over the AREA forums... never been banned form Newteks forums ? Never waited forever to get any admin answer ? Geez... wake up people, free upgrade for a point release ? In what world do you live ?

Do you work for free or for nothing ?

The price is excellent and I will be taking it. When silo anounced the price up for the 2.1 release, and upgrade prices, same people around complained about price beeing tway high... Same as 3D-Coat, they had the program beeing around for 1 year without income form existing user base. In the end the complainers are a small group that think that everything has to be free for them, but not giving anything in return.

And don't come bitching about you having reported bugs... indeed it's helpfull, but do you beleive it's worth you all a free version ? he puts a LOT MORE effort than you do on programming and coding this sweet piece of software. And real beta testers are "closed groups", those who are proffessionals and accept to take theyre free time to debug the thing. But for that you have an agreement with the company... Do you have one ? no ? then STFU...

Go for it Andrew... in big studios also when software is underpriced, they tend to think it's a toy (even if it's not), I had to fight for people to use Silo in mine... and now more and more are using it... so there... go for it.

A.

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I want to pay for the upgrade, so that Andrew can continue developping this wonderful application and listen to his consumer and implement new features that we all need.

If you want free stuff, go and get ms visual studio and program it yourself FFS.

Franck.

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Classy. (as have been most of your 'helpful' posts...I especially appreciated the ones where you chastise those that tried to help you

with your previous questions. Seen them over on Silo boards too, and I will say, at least you're consistent.)

I'm definitely willing to pay a $100 upgrade fee for a 3.0 upgrade. But I'm basing that on the proven development cycle and dedication

to improve the software according to consumer request (oh yeah, and the fact that it's currently severly over-featured for it's price).

As was mentioned in the other post ( <a href="http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/i...?showtopic=1443" target="_blank">http://3dbrush.kriska.hvosting.net/forum/i...?showtopic=1443</a> )

amcmahon paints a pretty good picture of the realities of price vs. value in case you missed it. Here's hoping that Mudbox (and

the Autodesk machine) gives you all that you apparently will require (and for a lowly 3 to 4-times larger price you're whining about here). :wacko:

Agree. I don't why people are complaining about the upgrade price(which i understand is about 100-120 USD). Upgrade price is not an issue. I'm more worried about feature set in 3.0. I'll upgrade if:

1. i can use VS for fine detail like pores, wrinkles(requires tiny triangles)

2. full set of brush tools for organic sculpting

3. 64-bit + CUDA support.

4. Stable and bug free as possible

I'd gladly pay 200/300 USD for an upgrade if those things are address in 3.0. I think i bought 3DC when it was around 90 USD and it has definitely a good deal for the amount of features it had. Also 3.x will include other features like hair also,which has add value to someone like me.

Well well it looks like we have picked up some non purchasing lurkers with low opinions of the rest of us :lol:

BTW I am not asking for a free upgrade despite the title of this thread.

Maybe so but i agree with them, you guys(existing users) are getting abit greedy especially the asking for free upgrade(though i think they were kidding about that) :P

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I'm quite pleased with this general price increase. Andrew and his team work harder and are more responsive than any other developers I've bought a product from. Hopefully this increase will mean that Andrew can actually start making a profit that reflects the effort he makes on his app. If the functionality:price ratio continues at this rate, imagine what we will get for our money before we come close to another increase.

-Oliver

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Taking into consideration that the only alternative software for voxel sculpting is ClayTools, which costs cca 6000$ (ok, you get a haptic input device - the standalone software costs around 1500$), I think 200-220$ for 3DC3 is more than fair.

To keep everyone happy, it would be fine if the price for the upgrade to V3.0 would be less than the full price.

For example: full price for version 3: 220$

upgrade price: 80$ (+ 120$ already payed for V2) = 200$

This way the existing "loyal" user community would spare 20$.

Oh, and I forgot. You can always buy Voxel3D instead. It only costs 35$ lol

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Andrew

You must ask for what you feel the market will bear. I think I paid like $89.00 (but I honestly do not remember the purchase price) for 3D Coat before it was 3D Coat. When version 3 is completed I will look at the upgrade price and see if I wish to purchase it. Anyway to give you some input. I use a video editing software called Video Studio by Ulead (Coral) Anyway the original cost was about $99.00 for version 11 they did a 11.5 version at no charge, however version 12 just came out this week and the upgrade cost was $59.00. Hope this helps BTW you can check out their website to make sure I made no errors in the price.

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I did the trial and have been waiting a few months to see what the v3 pricing/features will be (I hate buying a program only to find out I have to pay for an upgrade just months later). I hope Andrew works out the pricing structure prior to the Sept. 15 price increase.

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