Z Sphere Rigging in 3DCOAT...

[Voxelapocalypse]

Will we ever see something like this?

 

It seems like such a natural thing for 3DCOAT to have, I can't help but wonder...and hope.  

 

Maybe as a 3DCOAT Plug-In, if not an integral part of, because not everyone would use it.

 

Anyone hear any rumors or talk of something like this on the horizon for us?

 

 

Take a look at this Z Brush Tutorial using Z Spheres for Rigging:

http://youtu.be/cmury2eT_io

 

I mean...WOW  

 

( I don't have Z Brush, I don't like it's UI after trying it on Trial...3DCOAT is so much more user and newb friendly).

[ajz3d]

Well, there's this recent thread in case you missed it. It orbits around the idea of implementing some kind of armature or skeleton system to the sculpture. The addition would be great. Maybe one day, who knows?

[Psionic]

It would certainly be a nice addition!

[Pix Jigsaw]

This would be very useful

[AbnRanger]

I was just wondering how cool it might be if Andrew collaborated with Fori, at pmG Messiah, to offer both apps together in a Suite (initially and perhaps full integration later on), with very tight communication between the two. That would solve this issue and give 3D Coat a serious renderer (Messiah's renderer is based on Arnold and has nice Dynamic Update render mode). I think Messiah is in a bad position, currently...as there is practically no market for a standalone Character Animation system, and the developer is something of a hermit. He doesn't communicate with his userbase (only a small circle of loyalists), and there are practically no attempts to promote the app, whatsoever. Those two things hold an otherwise powerful application back.

 

Since Modo now has CA tools, LW's CA tools have been much improved,  and then you have Blender to compete with...it's seems their market has practically dried up. But pair it with 3D Coat, and they compliment each other very well. What Messiah lacks, 3D Coat provides, and vice versa....offering practically a full pipeline. Messiah has pretty good hair with softbody dynamics. So, it would be a solution for those wanting hair in 3D Coat, and a nodal shading/material network.

Edited August 11, 2013 by AbnRanger

[Voxelapocalypse]

Thanks for the link to that thread ajz3D.

 

Veeeery interesting info AbnRanger.      ...yes...yessss (raises right pinky to mouth and arches right eyebrow)

 

When I recently saw that Z Sphere's Rigging video I thought right away how incredible something like that would be here.
I would be thrilled with just an intuitive and organic feeling Rigging System at least as nice as Z Brush's.

The "AutoRig" feature in Messiah looks pretty nice, but Z Brush looks way more intuitive...

I'm sure that could be reworked into something at least as nice as Z Brushs.

 

Call me a 3DCOAT fanboy, but I think Andrew could come up with something really special as only 3DCOAT could offer,

and people would then also look at 3DCOAT as the go-to "Posing" software to use.

There seem to be a growing number of people interested in getting into 3D Modeling and especially Posing their Models,

(I'm one) and are put off by overly complicated UIs, and they just languish as the dreaded "eternal newb",

looking for Voxels AND the most user friendly and intuitive Posing System on the market.

 

I've free Trialed I think most of the big names, but 3DCOAT just feels the most organic and user friendly to use.

I keep catching glimpses of it's potential...like if it had a Rigging System like Z Brushs,

that "Newb Friendliness" would translate very well into that application also.

Together, they would offer a "3D Newbtopia", and Pros would likewise appreciate it's ease of use all in 3DCOAT.

 

We have these Voxels...I can't help but think that would also lend itself to implementing a posing system

that people would prefer to anything else out there.

Seems like a lot of the nuts and bolts are in place already for this...  

 

I realize I'm just one guy and don't speak for everyone here, but I'd luv to be able to pose my character designs

using something at least as nice as the Z Brush Rigging system.

Posing a model is what I get the most enjoyment from, next to creating it and imho it's the most important thing.

If you have a great looking model and a bad looking one, and put them both in the same bad pose,

they will both look bad, and the great looking model can only compensate so much with it's great look as far as the pose allows it.

Put them both in great poses, and even the bad Model will look much better.

The Pose is the fountainhead from which a cool character flows...

 

Voxels + Industry envious Rigging System in 3DCOAT = me finally buying the Professional Version.

...and I really think it would establish 3DCOAT as a "Character Designers Dream".

 

...another Late-Nighter ...am I dreaming again???   lol

 

Edited August 11, 2013 by Voxelapocalypse

[AbnRanger]

You actually have some fairly decent pose tools in Voxels, and 3D Coat is the only such app that I'm aware of that will allow your Retopo mesh to conform to the changes you make to the Voxel model, while Posing. There are also some tools in the Tweak Room that make it more than adequate to pose your low poly mesh with. Look in the manual, under the Tweak Room and DRAG POINTS You can set them up almost like Joints

 

Conform Retopo Mesh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3wgVOIU8nA&list=PL0614F2A03AD725CD&index=40

 

Pose Tool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXbsUcZtTB4&list=PL0614F2A03AD725CD&index=28

Edited August 11, 2013 by AbnRanger

[Voxelapocalypse]

Those are good Tutorials. Thanks for posting the Links.  

 

I haven't ever retoppoed anything...I'll have to give that a try, and go to the Tweak Room.

(I'm scared...haha)

 

I'm looking for a way to make a bone Rig, while in the Voxel Room, which I just discovered while playing with CURVES and when set to HARDNESS,

you can pose them like Z Sphere's...it's really awesome.

 

But, their is no way to make a new Curve (The Sphere) snap/ hinge onto an already existing one.

You have to manually eyeball it into place, which works, but it's clumsy and timely to do.

(Or maybe I'm missing something).

That function would really be useful here for setting up a Bone Rig, then you could start sculpting and building that up after it's posed.

 

I'm also wondering if it would be possible to embed a Bone Rig using CURVES into a Voxel Object in theory, without it being retoppoed?

That is, could Voxels somehow work instead of using a retoppoed mesh? (Could 3DCOAT be set up someday to do this?)

[Tony Nemo]

"That function would really be useful here for setting up a Bone Rig, then you could start sculpting and building that up after it's posed." You might consider building one out of cylinders in your poly modeler of choice. Import that into the voxel room and carry on modelling.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Tony Nemo

[AbnRanger]

"That function would really be useful here for setting up a Bone Rig, then you could start sculpting and building that up after it's posed." You might consider building one out of cylinders in your poly modeler of choice. Import that into the voxel room and carry on modelling.

That's what the Mannequin was created/intended to do....make it super easy to pose a base character and start sculpting on it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13-fj5FddAI&list=PL0614F2A03AD725CD&index=35

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THcJ1C4zpi0&list=PL0614F2A03AD725CD&index=16

[Tony Nemo]

If you have a saved rig in your animation app, you could import it's pose and emulate it with the mannequin which would enable an easy skinning job when you return with an OBJ.

[Voxelapocalypse]

Thanks for all the help and links everyone.  

 

I currently have no interest in animation, I simply want something like Z Brush is doing

with it's mannequins and Z Sphere rigging is really all, with everything 3DCOAT does.

 

I agree 3DCOAT has some new and nice posing features and a mannequin,

I especially like the ability to "SNAP TO" a mannequin joint using the Transform Tool.

 

However, we don't have a female mannequin, or a skeleton, either male or female...yet.  

I would like to be able to make my own mannequins as well, to have the ability to

create "CURVES" that act as Z Spheres and use as joints for custom made mannequins.

As nice as 3DCOATS mannequin is, and it's posability functions

The intuitive posing I'm thinking of is what Z Brush has introduced in their mannequin:

http://youtu.be/rWkq_1Z_dwk

 

3DCOAT has "CURVES", which seem very much like Z Spheres,

and this is why and where my imagination takes off...

It seems possible "CURVES" could be improved upon a lot and we could have

many if not all of what Z Spheres do especially for making bone rigs, and mannequins

right here all in 3DCOAT.

...to somehow have a way to create a Sphere Joint in 3DCOAT (we already can):

that would operate like a Z Sphere Joint on a mannequin in Z Spheres, only it would also work

on a mannequin like we currently have. That is, we would then be able to click on the joint

and use it like a joint in Z Spheres, where you can dragNpose while clicked on it.

This is where Z Brush really has the edge with their mannequin we do not.

 I'd like to see that edge here also!  

 

Everyone goes about this differently, I am really taken with Voxels and 3DCOATs other nice features,

but at the foundational level, the core, I really want to start out using what Z Brush does, Z Spheres.

They are like "CURVES" and "PRIMITIVES" combined...would this be a possibility here in 3DCOAT?

 

This is why I make such a big deal about hoping we may have these features here someday,

and wonder if it were possible, because I really would rather not also buy Z Brush,

just to have those few other features we as yet do not.

Obviously, Z Brush costs about twice as much as 3DCOAT,

but those Z Spheres and what they can do really look nice.

 

I wonder if Z Brush has some sort of proprietary copywrite  on their "Z Spheres"

that would prevent this from being available on a much more realized and implemented way here?

 

Does anyone have or have you used the recent Z Brush Version and tried their mannequins or rigging?

Would that be possible here if "CURVES" were to be modified?

Edited August 14, 2013 by Voxelapocalypse

[MGB]

+1 for posing!

[Aethyr]

I wish any object created with curves would retain the base curve as a bone beneath the skin with the same weighting applied as what created the object to begin with. Possibly a weight painting option for each node. If it retained the surface detail while posing the curve it would be light years ahead of zbrushes zspheres. Editing a zsphere setup totally resets your surface to it's basic starting point. So it's really not a posing tool.