Perfect Symetrical Cut & Instance

[Aethyr]

I've been trying to improve my workflow the more I use the program and learn. The ability to use instanced voxels for left/right symmetry to save memory seems to be ideal. However, no matter how hard I try to get a perfect cut using the "CutOff" tool or Cut&Clone or even split I always manage to miss the exact center of the object. Is there some trick I am unaware of that allows me to just easily say "Find the center of the object along "X" and remove the left half, then apply a new X symmetry instance? Any help/tips on this would be great because this is one of those things that is driving me nuts at present.

[AbnRanger]

You can go to an orthographic view and under the VIEW menu, check the 2D GRID option (snap to 2D grid should be on by default). Also check the AXIS option, so you can see the Y axis handle. You can move it until it's perfectly aligned with the Y axis, and then snapping will ensure you are right down the center.

 

However, if you are doing this to save memory on a contiguously joined object, like a character, I don't think that is going to help a lot. It might for an arm, leg, horn, wing, etc...but then you wouldn't be concerned about spliting an object down the middle.

[Aethyr]

You can go to an orthographic view and under the VIEW menu, check the 2D GRID option (snap to 2D grid should be on by default). Also check the AXIS option, so you can see the Y axis handle. You can move it until it's perfectly aligned with the Y axis, and then snapping will ensure you are right down the center.

 

However, if you are doing this to save memory on a contiguously joined object, like a character, I don't think that is going to help a lot. It might for an arm, leg, horn, wing, etc...but then you wouldn't be concerned about spliting an object down the middle.

I am in fact working on a character. The goal was to eliminate half of the voxel object so I can increase the total voxel count per side to get greater detail and just use an instance of the voxel for the other half. I've been hitting a memory issue when I go above 50m voxpolies. My machine grinds to a halt. 

 

Also the grid concept suffers the same problem as just using a box and "CutOff" since the grid moves with the view not with the object so I can zoom all the way in to the highest resolution to find the center, but as I zoom out that grid line moves all over the place. Essentially defeating the purpose of it in the first place. Eyeballing the center of an object when it fits to the entire screen is like trying to hit an ant from 20m with a grain of sand.

 

It would be a fantastic feature to be added to the symmetry toolset to do a "find center across axis and perform cut and clone/instance/etc". This is especially true of when an object is not perfectly symmetrical (rare but happens sometimes). to make it become symmetrical. 

Edited August 12, 2013 by Aethyr

[digman]

Here is what I do...

The object is in full view in orthographic mode

Have the symmetry plane visible.

The Grid does not need to be small.

Use the object moving tool in the top right toolbar. not the grid one.

Move the object till the symmetry plane snaps to the grid. Grid snapping is a little weak so it might take a try or two to get it to snap correctly. The yellow symmetry plane will turn the grid a light green color where it is snapping to, then you know  you are snapped to it.

Turn off symmetry and then use the cutoff tool.

Create your new mirrored instance and see if it work correctly... I just tested a character model and it worked.

 

Grid snapping sure could be stronger that would help a lot and I like your idea...

 

It is irksome but the best I can give you...

 

Edit: I would say too that your model needs to be high enough in voxel count so you do not lose voxel material along the center line when cutting. Your model is, I am just putting this information here for others...

Edited August 12, 2013 by digman

[Aethyr]

Hmm I'll try this and see if I have any better luck. Trying to find the exact center is problematic to say the least lol.

[AbnRanger]

I am in fact working on a character. The goal was to eliminate half of the voxel object so I can increase the total voxel count per side to get greater detail and just use an instance of the voxel for the other half. I've been hitting a memory issue when I go above 50m voxpolies. My machine grinds to a halt. 

 

Also the grid concept suffers the same problem as just using a box and "CutOff" since the grid moves with the view not with the object so I can zoom all the way in to the highest resolution to find the center, but as I zoom out that grid line moves all over the place. Essentially defeating the purpose of it in the first place. Eyeballing the center of an object when it fits to the entire screen is like trying to hit an ant from 20m with a grain of sand.

 

It would be a fantastic feature to be added to the symmetry toolset to do a "find center across axis and perform cut and clone/instance/etc". This is especially true of when an object is not perfectly symmetrical (rare but happens sometimes). to make it become symmetrical. 

I'm just thinking that even if you split it perfectly, that there may be a bit of a gap or seam. If it does, then you can just use the Split tool to divide the body into discreet parts. Then you can cache layers you aren't actively working on. That will solve your RAM issue. But the best approach is to do all your initial stages of sculpting, including Boolen type operations, in Voxel mode...then switch to Surface mode for the remainder. Why? Because Voxels not only require more RAM, but because of the voxels dual-calculation (turn on/off voxels in 3D space + remesh the outer skin to conform to the change...simultaneously) with every brush stroke, it's faster in Surface mode, where there is only one (deform geometry).

 

The work Andrew has done, recently (build 4.0.06) on the Surface mode brushes + Artman's brush presets (preset panel), is so remarkable that you'll want to do your sculpting there. Not to mention the LiveClay tools/brushes. This is where Andrew has devoted most of his attention over the past few years, and it's the future of digital sculpting (dynamic subdivision). You can tell from the sheer number of brushes in Surface mode, that it's where most of the development has been focused.

[Aethyr]

I've been spending more and more time in surface mode. I still find myself going back to voxels for a lot of special things but I see the advantages of them. Funny story.. I figured out what was killing my machine.. it wasn't the number of voxpolys it was the fancy smancy shader I stuck on there at a early stage and never thought to change it again. lol.. put it on a simple shader and wallah was like 50x faster than it was before.. DOH! Should make a special note to newbies.. ::WARNING SHADERS MAY ADVERSELY EFFECT YOUR PERFORMANCE EXPONENTIALLY COMPARED TO VOXPOLYS ALONE!:: lol

 

 

I'm not even a newbie.. I should have known better.. I've owned 3D Coat since it was in early beta testing before v2 when you could still buy it for under 80$ :P I think I got the first version for like just around 50$ or something I don't recall anymore..

 

I'd still like a single button press to allow me to split a model in half along a chosen axis and decide what to do with it from there. It could be an option under cut even. Check a box for cut entire layer or through all layers along an axis, also an option under instance, etc or just make it it's own tool or menu item. There are lots of reasons to do this as a game designer. Each model loaded by a game engine has a unique set of draw calls. To save on resources and get extra quality in a lower sized texture we will split simple objects in half like a space ship which is symmetrical and just mirror the object. I do this a lot through retopo but would be nice to do it in the voxel room when a scene gets to heavy also. 

Edited August 13, 2013 by Aethyr

[AbnRanger]

I've been spending more and more time in surface mode. I still find myself going back to voxels for a lot of special things but I see the advantages of them. Funny story.. I figured out what was killing my machine.. it wasn't the number of voxpolys it was the fancy smancy shader I stuck on there at a early stage and never thought to change it again. lol.. put it on a simple shader and wallah was like 50x faster than it was before.. DOH! Should make a special note to newbies.. ::WARNING SHADERS MAY ADVERSELY EFFECT YOUR PERFORMANCE EXPONENTIALLY COMPARED TO VOXPOLYS ALONE!:: lol

 

 

I'm not even a newbie.. I should have known better.. I've owned 3D Coat since it was in early beta testing before v2 when you could still buy it for under 80$ :P I think I got the first version for like just around 50$ or something I don't recall anymore..

 

I'd still like a single button press to allow me to split a model in half along a chosen axis and decide what to do with it from there. It could be an option under cut even. Check a box for cut entire layer or through all layers along an axis, also an option under instance, etc or just make it it's own tool or menu item. There are lots of reasons to do this as a game designer. Each model loaded by a game engine has a unique set of draw calls. To save on resources and get extra quality in a lower sized texture we will split simple objects in half like a space ship which is symmetrical and just mirror the object. I do this a lot through retopo but would be nice to do it in the voxel room when a scene gets to heavy also. 

Good point. I never knew that a shader could adversely affect performance either. Also, with this being a "New User" section, I naturally presumed you were...well, new to 3D Coat. Sorry about that.

[Seven Are They]

Yeah this is increadibly, shall I say frustrating man. Been trying to get a simple (but you know, precise) mirror of an object for like 45 mins now

 

Wish the engine was more Sketchup like, where you move everything around by exact points... this is more of a guess work, and placing the gizmo where I want it to be is also a bit tedious as well...

[Carlosan]

This is a post asking for features at 2013

 

Are you using the last version 30.04.2016 4.5.37 ?

 

[Seven Are They]

Oh yeah (I do)... will check into that symmetrical copy thing