Fingerprints in the Clay

[Bloodsong]

okay, this is making me nuts.

 

i'm sculpting along, doing fine.  now look at the cheeks on this head.  do you see all those little lumps, bumps, waves in the surface?

 

 

i want all those GONE and for the cheeks to be SMOOTH.  i have tried every flipping thing i can think of.

 

i use the smooth (shift) on my move tool, which is usually subtle.  it doesn't do crap.

i use the smooth on my build tool, which usually does the trick to melt the voxels away.  doesn't do crap.

i use the actual smooth tool, which can be turned up to 700+ "depth" or strength or whatever... doesn't do ANYTHING.

i use BIG brush, i use tiny brush, i sit there and brushbrushbrush for two minutes straight, in straight lines over the lumps, in circles around the lumps, long strokes, short strokes....  nothing gets rid of these lumps.

 

now, i figure... okay, you retopo this thing, the mesh won't follow all the little dips and waves THAT closely.  it'll come out smooth. (won't it??? haven't tried yet.)  but looking at it is driving me nuts!  i want to SEE smooth, not imagine that it is.

 

 

what is the secret voodoo trick???

 

[Javis]

Hi!

 

I know some of this might sound obvious, but it should be smoothing, so I'm going to ask some questions first.

 

Which build of 3DC are you using? Your OS?

 

Since you've tried the smooth tool and it's not working, have you made sure that the vox layer you want to smooth is the current and active layer?

 

What kind of polycount are you working with there? If the mesh is too dense, smoothing can get tricky. If so, try reducing by decimation. It's under Voxel>Decimate

[Bloodsong]

heyas!

 

   i've been using 4.0.0.4B(GL), though i just tried 4.0.0.7B(DX)   same results.  i've been pretty much having the same results... since the latter version 3's, really.  the smooth tool and smoothing (shift key) rarely do what i expect/want. 

   and my os is windows XP sp3.

 

hahahah!  funnily enough, every time i open this file, i forget that its the eyes, not the head, that is the default layer.  but, YES, i  AM trying to smooth on the active layer. 

 

   how many polygons?  not a clue.  i thought i was using voxels.  this layer is 2x.  i don't want to reduce the voxels/mesh/whatever, because i have little details on the eyelids and lips and stuff i don't want to lose.

   okay, i went into wireframe mode, and it still looks like a solid mesh.  that's bad, right?  :X

 

  voxel>decimate is greyed out.  :/

 

 

  okay, i used the layer clone and reduce LOD twice, two times. (0.6x)  now the smooth will smooth the cheeks.  um, but my nostrils, eyelids, and lips are all jaggy.

 

 

   is there a way to interactively reduce the LOD just where i want to?  or masking or something...?  what do i do about that?

[TimmyZDesign]

You can control LOD exactly where you want to in Surface Mode. To get to Surface Mode, click on the "V" on your voxel volume in the VoxTree Panel.

 

 

Once you are in Surface Mode, my recommendation to you is that you get a good grasp on how to use the different SHIFT key options available there. Above the viewport you will see a drop-down menu called "SHIFT action". Click on that drop down and you will see a lot of different options (powerful smoothing, relax, decimate, etc.). Basically when you hold down the SHIFT key and use a brush on your model, it will perform the action that you chose in this menu.

 

To see what happens to your mesh when you use these options, make sure you are in wireframe mode (the option is available in the View menu, or press "w" on your keyboard), and then zoom in close to see the individual polygons of your mesh.

 

Then choose different SHIFT actions and watch what happens when you brush on the mesh (while holding down the SHIFT key). You will see that you have an incredible amount of control over resolution density, and smoothing capability. In areas where you need a surface to be very smooth, you can use the "reduce" or "decimate" SHIFT actions first, then follow it up with the "powerful smoothing" action. This will help also to get rid of lumpiness in your mesh, and will help many of the surface mode brushes perform better. If you find brushes don't seem to be working well anymore, then probably you should reduce the density of your mesh in that area, and then try using the brush again. Be aware that the LC brushes tend to add a lot of resolution to the mesh when you use them, so it is a good idea to follow those up with the "decimate" SHIFT action to keep detail, but reduce resolution.

 

Once you get a hold of these things, sculpting in 3D-Coat should become quite enjoyable!

 

On the other hand, I still think using 3D-Coat TOGETHER with Zbrush is really the best way to work. If you get a lumpy mesh that you want to be smoother, you can always send it quickly to Zbrush, run Zremesher on it, then bring that back to 3D-Coat to continue sculpting. I also find working in Zbrush can be kind of tedious, and I prefer the logic of 3D-Coat, so I try to stay in 3D-Coat as much as possible, but Zbrush still does certain things better (Zremesher for example). Alternatively you can stay in 3D-Coat and just right-click on your voxel layer and choose AUTOPO (similar function to Zbrush's Zremesher), but if that result is not to your liking (it is somewhat difficult at present to tweak the AUTOPO settings to get a desired result), then you can try manual retopology in the Retopo room. Manually retopo the section of your mesh that you want to be smooth (possibly subdivide it once or twice), then go back to the voxel room and use the Merge Tool. In the Merge Tool's Tool Options panel there is an option to "pick from Retopo". This will import your smoothed section onto your current voxel mesh in the Vox Room.

[Bloodsong]

oh, cool; thanks timmy!

 

   i seem to remember a 3dc video once where they showed changing the LOD by brushing over it or something (they were texturing a landscape), but lord knows which video that was.  glad now i don't have to go find it.

 

 

 

   i don't have zbrush.  actually, i've tried numerous times to use/learn zbrush, it just doesn't click for me.  sculptris worked like a dream, but.... only up to a point.  (like, the point where i wanted it to be actually useful for something.)  so i guess i don't have to worry about that. 

[ajz3d]

If I get lumps on a surface I want to be smooth, I either smooth it with the Smoother tool or decimate it a bit with the CleanClay brush and: use smooth brush or apply Smoother . If this isn't enough, I draw some strokes with Artman's Polish preset to get rid of hard edges or lumps and: draw smooth or apply Smoother afterwards. All of this I do in surface mode.

 

There's no point in using the voxel mode at the moment, apart of perhaps building up volume, because voxel tools are now inferior to surface's. If you reach the point when you want to add details to your model, switch to surface and never come back to voxels. Coming back to them and again to surface may cause serious problems to your mesh - holes or explosions, even if those problems aren't immediately visible.

[Bloodsong]

okay, i'll try that.

 

   here i thought voxels were 'sculpt anything without limitations!  out of thin air!  express freedom of a true 3d artist without worrying bout topology!'  ;X

 

 

 

  okay, problem number two.  now i get THIS:

 

   the smooth tool is now making little mush-marks in my 'clay' here.  that, and it is MELTING the whole mesh.  like if i keep smoothing, so those 'fingerprints' go away, my cheekbone will be sunken in by the time i'm done.

 

all i want is to average the surface location of all the waves and bumps, not smush *everything* down.

 

 

   okay, let me try B7 again.  that kept crashing when i tried to decimate, so i went back to B4.

 

no, even with preserve surface on, it's still shrinking in the mesh.

 

 

TANGENT SMOOTHING!!!!!!!  okay, THAT'S what i want!  i am edified, now.  thanks guys!